Aging, death, and children

[Hugo_Stiglitz]

I fought an extremely short, named, NPC lord/man-child in a tournament the other day. The manly voice over screams coming from the little daemon in the arena were terrifying. That thing moved unnaturally fast too! It was creeping me out. I'm assuming an NPC heir? Bug?

FYI the tiny hitbox made the little bugger extremely hard to hit. And no, I'm not running any of the child conscript or children coming of age mods.

 

[Brynjahr]

I fought an extremely short, named, NPC lord/man-child in a tournament the other day. The manly voice over screams coming from the little daemon in the arena were terrifying. That thing moved unnaturally fast too! It was creeping me out. I'm assuming an NPC heir? Bug?

FYI the tiny hitbox made the little bugger extremely hard to hit. And no, I'm not running any of the child conscript or children coming of age mods.

Probably just an NPC child

 

[Memoefe]

None of that actually seems to be working for me. Never seen a companion die. Or a rival lord. Despite having been killed (red skull) in battle. People get old. There’s a couple 100+ years of age nobles in my game. Execution is seemingly the only way to get rid of anyone permanently. Unless you have the dev console mod. In which case you can kill_hero and they will then show up as having been “murdered” in their history.

I really, really want death in battle to be working. If I have to watch Belithor take another sword to the face at full charge and get a red skull then after the the fight be all “I’m at your mercy.” I may actually vomit.

To the folks concerned about houses dying out...so? That’s what happened in medieval warfare. New houses rise to take the places of those exterminated. Never ending cycle. None of the npcs currently have personalities more engaging than a guppy anyway...so why not be able to kill them on the field?

I don't think dying in battle is in the game yet, or I don't think lords can execute as players do atm. They can die of old age but that takes a long long long time.

 

[Pensaci]

Once aging death has been enabled, it is a restriction. For players to continue a playthrough, they will need to either invest time in raising an heir, or rush to complete specific objectives on a hard timeline. The ability to explore or do other things at the player's discretion goes away. Not to mention the time put into leveling up a character, only to have to re-level an heir once your character dies or becomes too weak to continue playing.

These mechanics restrict the player's in game time, and demands a player put more real time into the game to satisfy the new requirements. I'll give it a hard pass.

I do think we have a misunderstanding, but I still think we actually don't have a problem here. Think of it not a continuation but different playthrough, although it is continuation in a greater sense. So it has no actually impact on "a single character's life", like if you don't want a kid just ignore the thing. It is more a new way to continue the playthrough, a new way to play than a change to what player can do in a single character.

I think the key here is "How Long?". You mentioned "rush", "hard timeline", which is why I kinda get your point I think. In this I agreed with you if you have to rush to do something, then it does feels like a restriction. So to me, question of continuation of a playthrough is actually two questions: "How long does a player take for a playthrough?" and "What if a player wants a playthrough to continue indefinitely?"

So then again, like I said in other threads, I agree there should be options, especially when Bannerlord is to become this complex. Just like there is already a option for perma-death.

 

[Ryotarou]

Only issue I can see is that companions will die in battle or old age and then eventually your children will be companionless when you play as them unless they've already thought of this and there are hundreds of companions released at different times during your campaign so there are a range of ages of companions and new ones are constantly "adventuring" to Calradia.

I noticed that sometimes the companions spawn with different names

 

[tzeneth]

I don't think dying in battle is in the game yet, or I don't think lords can execute as players do atm. They can die of old age but that takes a long long long time.

Lords can execute players and will only tend to do so against those that are dishonorable (Seen screenshots of dead PCs due to execution). Character death in battle does not seem to be working though, even with the death mark checked in the campaign options.

 

[Kangamangus]

then devs should remove losing battles or being prisoned, or your soldiers shouldn't die. they are restricting player from progressing too? Any dark souls losing soul mechanic is a downgrade too.

You might like not dying at all and thats fine but this doesnt make this feature downgrade.

Imo this is the most ambitious feature of bannerlord, adds whole new bond with your character. You might die no-one but you overcome all the threats and now you are an old king/queen with glory and victories in his/her every scar. And after you die you will be that great mans/womans son or daughter. It will be totally new experience in the same playthrough. It makes all the battle 10 times more thrilling all the time you spend more valueable.

Those mechanics were already a part of M&B. A lot of that is able to be mitigated as well. You can avoid picking difficult fights, you can improve your skill, you can level your medicine/surgery to preserve troops. All of that can be recovered even if you do lose troops and battles.

You can't out skill, think, or level up past the new in-game time limits. It is a restriction and a downgrade.

 

[Kangamangus]

This!... People who don't like the new mechanis it's simple, just don't use them. If you conquere Calradia before the time of your old age then stop playing your mission is complete. I intend to even if I finish conquer all Calradia keep going on playing to see what will bring for my heirs and my bloodline. Will there another civil war? My line will be able to retain the throne? Will the factions i conquerered their heirs and descendants will try being independent again? It's not a downgrade, it doesn't restrict you, the thing is download a mod for immortality, disable deaths and be the hero like in Warband... People tend to hold on the past, Warband is an excellent game and I love it as well, but it's the past, Bannerlord is the future and base for future games in TW. I always felt a lack of something after conquering all Calradia, I got married and what then? Nothing happened, now..I can die in battle, be executed if not careful, die of old age and my bloodline be gone forever from the continent which will mean that i failed the game.
Warband you're the hero foreigner another ursurper to the throne, Bannerlord makes you feel you belong to Calradia, you were born in there and you're not another ursurper. Your dynasty can actually claim the throne by election, war and perharps inheritance.

Yes, it does create a new time limit, and restricts what the player is able to do with finite time limits that previously weren't in the series.

You might enjoy a dynasty system, or re-leveling heirs, or playing a game on an accelerated time table against regenerating and generic lords, but it does nothing for the players that don't care about the dynasty or family raising elements.

M&B has never put this unavoidable form of a time limit on players previously. Everyone that claims 'this adds so much end game' fails to realize that they are going to be doing the same thing, only with the added steps of re-leveling heirs and fighting endless generic lords. It's not going to change much from Warband, except the player has to invest more time and recover lost progress as characters die and new ones need to be leveled. No matter how many lords you execute, there will still be lords to fight until you capture everything. Dynasties won't stop you from running out of strategic objectives once your clan/kingdom owns everything. Then you're just stuck playing The Sims and releveling. All executions do is make you fight generic and/or undead lords over and over. So much end game...

Devs already give players the option to disable battle death. The aging death mechanic IS a restriction and a time limit. It should be able to be turned off out of the box, so people can play this like every previous M&B if they wish.

I do think we have a misunderstanding, but I still think we actually don't have a problem here. Think of it not a continuation but different playthrough, although it is continuation in a greater sense. So it has no actually impact on "a single character's life", like if you don't want a kid just ignore the thing. It is more a new way to continue the playthrough, a new way to play than a change to what player can do in a single character.

I think the key here is "How Long?". You mentioned "rush", "hard timeline", which is why I kinda get your point I think. In this I agreed with you if you have to rush to do something, then it does feels like a restriction. So to me, question of continuation of a playthrough is actually two questions: "How long does a player take for a playthrough?" and "What if a player wants a playthrough to continue indefinitely?"

So then again, like I said in other threads, I agree there should be options, especially when Bannerlord is to become this complex. Just like there is already a option for perma-death.

Agreed. It's great that people like the new mechanics. I hope it makes the game that much better for them. I just want options to not play it that way. Options are a good thing!

 

[Memoefe]

Those mechanics were already a part of M&B. A lot of that is able to be mitigated as well. You can avoid picking difficult fights, you can improve your skill, you can level your medicine/surgery to preserve troops. All of that can be recovered even if you do lose troops and battles.

You can't out skill, think, or level up past the new in-game time limits. It is a restriction and a downgrade.

There is no game over in warband, you can't 'lose' you don't really have important thing to lose. Whateve you do you wil see 5000th day and even worst player will conquer calradia with that much of time.

Bannerlord is not about a immortal person in calradia. Its about clan, family. Its about making a name about your family. This not only gives players something to care about, it also increases immersiveness and feeling of consequences.

You don't have to like the feature but to say this is a downgrade you have to be idiot.

There are tons of games that have time limits and there is no other time limit then death itself.

 

[Kangamangus]

There is no game over in warband, you can't 'lose' you don't really have important thing to lose. Whateve you do you wil see 5000th day and even worst player will conquer calradia with that much of time.

Bannerlord is not about a immortal person in calradia. Its about clan, family. Its about making a name about your family. This not only gives players something to care about, it also increases immersiveness and feeling of consequences.

You don't have to like the feature but to say this is a downgrade you have to be idiot.

There are tons of games that have time limits and there is no other time limit then death itself.

Ok. Your cognitive dissonance and denial doesn't make you right.

The aging death mechanic coupled with accelerated aging guarantees characters have an expiration date. No other M&B did that before. Meaning all of the time you've put into that character will go away. To keep playing, and avoid a game over, you have to invest time doing something other than playing the game the way you want. You will need to go and play The Sims, only so you can have an heir that you will take over once your character is forced out of the game. Then you have to spend time re-leveling the new character. Epic waste of time that could be spent actually playing the game.

To say that putting time limits on characters is an upgrade, and making players invest more time doing repetitive and uninteresting activities to continue playing the game, would make you an idiot.

Just like 'freemium' games usually make people pay to keep playing without limits or restrictions, you are arguing that limiting a player's choice and forcing them to lose progress and time invested (while requiring them to play house) is an 'upgrade.' XD

Putting time limits in game that translate to WASTING PLAYER TIME is objectively a downgrade. Full stop. Deny if you want, but you would be wrong.

 

[Ser Shakes]

Dude. Mods will be your best friend. They already exist. Those of us who want this planned, advertised and expected feature just want it to work properly. What you are desiring is not, supposedly, a feature that was planned since the game was in development. That is the territory of modders. Skyrim didn’t plan on making my lady wood elf’s jugs jiggle like jello but they sure as hell do now. Because mods.

 

[Kangamangus]

Dude. Mods will be your best friend. They already exist. Those of us who want this planned, advertised and expected feature just want it to work properly. What you are desiring is not, supposedly, a feature that was planned since the game was in development. That is the territory of modders. Skyrim didn’t plan on making my lady wood elf’s jugs jiggle like jello but they sure as hell do now. Because mods.

Show me where this 'feature' is advertised?

Mount&Blade II Bannerlord - TaleWorlds Entertainment

www.taleworlds.com

Nothing about aging death, generational gameplay, dynasties, etc.. Funny, though, it says 'play the game the way you want.' I want to play it like every other Mount & Blade game before this, without having to waste my time re-leveling characters or playing The Sims.

Where on the Steam page is your 'aging death' or 'generational gameplay' advertised? Because it's not.

But this is from the official Taleworlds features page.:

I want to play Mount & Blade, not Crusader Kings. This game was advertised as a Mount & Blade game that you can 'play the way you want to play it.'

The option to ignore the new mechanics (not even mentioned on their sales pages) should come with the game out of the box.

 

[Memoefe]

Ok. Your cognitive dissonance and denial doesn't make you right.

The aging death mechanic coupled with accelerated aging guarantees characters have an expiration date. No other M&B did that before. Meaning all of the time you've put into that character will go away. To keep playing, and avoid a game over, you have to invest time doing something other than playing the game the way you want. You will need to go and play The Sims, only so you can have an heir that you will take over once your character is forced out of the game. Then you have to spend time re-leveling the new character. Epic waste of time that could be spent actually playing the game.

To say that putting time limits on characters is an upgrade, and making players invest more time doing repetitive and uninteresting activities to continue playing the game, would make you an idiot.

Just like 'freemium' games usually make people pay to keep playing without limits or restrictions, you are arguing that limiting a player's choice and forcing them to lose progress and time invested (while requiring them to play house) is an 'upgrade.' XD

Putting time limits in game that translate to WASTING PLAYER TIME is objectively a downgrade. Full stop. Deny if you want, but you would be wrong.

Yep we should agree to disagree

Show me where this 'feature' is advertised?

Mount&Blade II Bannerlord - TaleWorlds Entertainment

www.taleworlds.com

Nothing about aging death, generational gameplay, dynasties, etc.. Funny, though, it says 'play the game the way you want.' I want to play it like every other Mount & Blade game before this, without having to waste my time re-leveling characters or playing The Sims.

Where on the Steam page is your 'aging death' or 'generational gameplay' advertised? Because it's not.

But this is from the official Taleworlds features page.:

I want to play Mount & Blade, not Crusader Kings. This game was advertised as a Mount & Blade game that you can 'play the way you want to play it.'

The option to ignore the new mechanics (not even mentioned on their sales pages) should come with the game out of the box.

Yea **** the devs because they cant make everybody happy!

You are such a joke.

 

[Ser Shakes]

They have been talking about these things for years, guy. In the development blogs, the YouTube vids. It’s not a secret this was the way it was going. But I’m not trying to convince you to like it. Or even to play it. In fact, it seems like it may be better if you don’t. Less stress is better for everyone in these stressful times.

 

[xdj1nn]

Those mechanics were already a part of M&B. A lot of that is able to be mitigated as well. You can avoid picking difficult fights, you can improve your skill, you can level your medicine/surgery to preserve troops. All of that can be recovered even if you do lose troops and battles.

You can't out skill, think, or level up past the new in-game time limits. It is a restriction and a downgrade.

"you can level your medicine/surgery to preserve troops. All of that can be recovered even if you do lose troops and battles."
depending on your build, no, you cannot. BL is way more restrictive when it comes to what your character can and cannot do. There's a soft-cap, then there's a hard cap for all skills, the cap is when the skill gets marked in red text, that means you won't level it at all, maybe a single point over 1000 in-game days doing that thing continuously... And since Companions are totally random, and leveling them up is just as nightmarish as it is leveling your character, you can say goodbye to a decent surgeon, unless you prefer to gimp your late-game by wasting focus on non-leading skills (for late game you must have at least really high Charm + Leadership + Stewardship, if you avoid those skills you'll get handicapped)

 

[Kangamangus]

Yep we should agree to disagree



Yea **** the devs because they cant make everybody happy!

You are such a joke.

Ok...

Sorry I'm looking at their official features page and this upsets you? Sorry you can't understand that in-game time limits and forced character expiration is a restriction and wastes player time? Sorry you can't realize that giving players the option to disable the accelerated aging and aging death WOULD make both sides happy? They already let players disable the new 'battle death' feature. Letting players disable the aging death mechanic won't hurt your experience at all. The real joke is that you couldn't even figure that out.

Go ahead, be mad, won't change the fact that you're wrong.

They have been talking about these things for years, guy. In the development blogs, the YouTube vids. It’s not a secret this was the way it was going. But I’m not trying to convince you to like it. Or even to play it. In fact, it seems like it may be better if you don’t. Less stress is better for everyone in these stressful times.

They've also uploaded game footage on those blogs that are from now obsolete and irrelevant builds. Just because it was in blogs doesn't mean it's concrete, absolute, widely accepted, or will even be implemented.

Again, I'm not seeing the advertising you are insisting. Apparently those features weren't important enough to be on the key features list.

 

[Memoefe]

Sorry I'm looking at their official features page and this upsets you? Sorry you can't understand that in-game time limits and forced character expiration is a restriction and wastes player time?

How the well could they add every damn feature on description, what if they didn't include one? They have much more feature that isnt on steam or homepage.

Sorry you can't realize that giving players the option to disable the accelerated aging and aging death WOULD make both sides happy? They already let players disable the new 'battle death' feature. Letting players disable the aging death mechanic won't hurt your experience at all. The real joke is that you couldn't even figure that out.

If you just disable age deaths then newborns would flood the caldaria, other features such as companions can be lord would make there are thousands of lord in calradia. If only you don't age then it would be pretty bull****, im a playing vampire game or something.

Tl:dr They can't just flip a switch and turn an entire feature off, it requires tons of balance

Also this game is not warband, its a new game it has new features. You cant just expect copy of warband.

 

[Apocal]

Isn't it like 3,000 days before your character might die of old age?

I'm not saying no one could play that long but you probably should've conquered Calradia, even the new and expanded Calradia, in that time.

 

[Ser Shakes]

Isn't it like 3,000 days before your character might die of old age?

I'm not saying no one could play that long but you probably should've conquered Calradia, even the new and expanded Calradia, in that time.

I’ve got nobles in my current save that are over 110 years old. I’ve definitely got death enabled. Idk when old ageis supposed to take these fossils but I wish it would get on with it. How long does it take? lol

 

[Telemachos]

I think the new system is pretty cool and like having this "legacy" system.

It doesn't bother me since I can simply reroll a new character any time and often do, yet I can imagine if some people can't handle the extra pressure that their character might die.