Adoption

[Bulle]

This week news over Sweden has been telling sobstories about 3 families who had adopted a little child each from Kenya and have had their adopted children taken away from them because it turned out that the children had been kidnapped from their original families. The main focus is about how sad it is for the Western families, while at the same time the media talks about how bad the kenyan police have been for trying to reunite the children with their families. Media has also tried to trivialize it even further by just saying that "relatives" have claimed the children, but as it turns out it is the biological father for one of the children, the biological mother for the second one and the grandmother to the third. Not like it would be less terrible to kidnap a child if it lives with relatives than if it would live with its parents. This made several families hide their adopted children because they feared that the police would come and reunite them with their families.

Kenya closed down for international adoption last year after following the advice of the UN because trafficking and kidnapping of children has become an epidemic. In basically all countries which has adoption there has been cases of people kidnapping children and making them appear as orphans due to the high demand of children to childless Western couples. It's a lucrative business to sell children. Do the West fight more for the right of white people to adopt children from the former colonies and global south than for giving biological parents the help and means they need to support and keep their own children?

Do you think adoption is problematic?

 

[Adorno]

I just want to say hi Bulle. It's been a long time.

Adoption is very problematic, not least in many African nations with poor judicial systems.
There have been similar cases in Denmark, with kidnapped children, and the press ran stories about it for weeks.

 

[TheFlyingFishy]

I don't think adoption is problematic, no. I think people stealing children to sell them is, yes.

 

[Úlfheðinn]

Do the West fight more for the right of white people to adopt children from the former colonies and global south than for giving biological parents the help and means they need to support and keep their own children?

When does the West or really any government not choose the easiest and/or cheapest option?

I mean ****, there's a reason people love charities, because it means that for the low, low price of perhaps some minimum investment of money or time, they get to feel good about themselves.

"It's so sad about the beggars, but I gave them 10 Kr, so I am a good person."

 

[Swissky]

Bulle is back! WOOOOOOOOHOOOO! 

When does the West or really any government not choose the easiest and/or cheapest option?

Oh boy, we've lost him. 

I mean ****, there's a reason people love charities, because it means that for the low, low price of perhaps some minimum investment of money or time, they get to feel good about themselves.

"It's so sad about the beggars, but I gave them 10 Kr, so I am a good person."

Pretty much this. Now "Housing for Romanis" would be something I would donate to since the Romanian government (not that the two have any relation besides location to some extent) doesn't do enough for them but just says : "lol, ur problem yuroop". Giving money to beggars is a very short-term solution.

 

[Temuzu]

You say that like Romania has some sort of a duty to take care of the gypsies.

 

[Swissky]

All countries do, in their own way. A country should see to it that their residents and especially their citizens are well. (If that is the system in which the people have voted for) Romania and Bulgaria act as a gateway to Europe for the Romas so I would say that they have more responsibility. We're going off-topic so let's make a thread on it.

 

[Temuzu]

Oh my lel, yeah, let's get back on subject, this would require a thread of its own.

Do the West fight more for the right of white people to adopt children from the former colonies and global south than for giving biological parents the help and means they need to support and keep their own children?

"West" doesn't really stand for "white" like it used to, especially when talking of Sweden. Unless you're implying that white people are the main consumers of adoption.

Do you think adoption is problematic?

I'm deeply concerned. In fact, I'm triggered and literally can't even.

 

[kurczak]

Do you think adoption is problematic?

It is problematic like pretty much anything is problematic. It can be abused. But anything can be abused.

Blaming the adoptive parents for creating demand for the black market with children is just as...uhm...uninsightful....as blaming people with kidney failure for the existence of a black market with organs. They are victims of the fraud, not perpetrators of the kidnapping. (Obviously, unless they knew about or even ordered the kidnapping, which I assume is seldom, if ever, the case)

 

[Temuzu]

Blaming the adoptive parents for creating demand for the black market with children

I do hope the pun was intended.

 

[Adorno]

Children are adopted from all over the world, and within nations themselves. Not just Africa.
And many children get better lives because of it. Maybe there are more 'pros than cons' to adoption, generally speaking.

I don't think adoption is problematic, no. I think people stealing children to sell them is, yes.

Adoption creates a market for abducting children, so it's part of the problem.
But it's infinitely better than what children are otherwise abducted for...

 

[kurczak]

Blaming the adoptive parents for creating demand for the black market with children

I do hope the pun was intended.

Sorry, nope. We have not reached the Western level of anxiety about being (accidentally) racist where I live.

 

[Untitled.]

Reported regardless. My privilege feels slighted.

 

[Jhessail]

Adoptions is a good process that can help both couples unable to conceive and poor children to get a better life - but yeah, obviously it is exploitable and abusable like any other human activity. You'd think there were enough kids in orphanages that kidnapping wouldn't work but I guess not.

 

[Bulle]

Some adoptees I know made a picture with the following text:

WANTED:
A COMPLETELY ETHICAL INTERNATIONAL ADOPTION

Contact us if you fitt ALL of these criterias:

• You are above the age of 18 and have been internationally adopted
• You have been allowed your original name and culutre
• You have a birth certificate or similar
• You only have one date of birth
• You have looked for your roots...
• ...without being violated, shamed or worked against
• ...without having to pay for it
• You are not a paper orphan
• You have received all of your adoption papers...
• ...and these match the story of your biological parents
• You were not seperated from your parents without their consent...
• ...and they gave you away without being coerced, manipulated or threatened
• Your biological parents have read the adoption agreement and papers...
• ...and they understood completely what adoption means
• When you were adopted your adoption agency did their best to try and find new parents in your original country
• Your adoption did not lead to any improper financial profit for any participating part

They've had over a hundred responses so far, but no one has been able to tick all the boxes. This not only breaks UNs Convention on the Rights of the Child but also the Hague Convention.

Adoptions is a good process that can help both couples unable to conceive and poor children to get a better life - but yeah, obviously it is exploitable and abusable like any other human activity. You'd think there were enough kids in orphanages that kidnapping wouldn't work but I guess not.

We all know that there is a lot of poor families out there that can't support their kids, thus giving them up for adoption because they are not financially able to raise them. This is an issue. But why don't we help the families so that they can keep their children that they love instead of taking the children and giving them to rich white couples?

Trafficking, paper orphans, abductions. These are all incredibly common. Not just a minority, but so common that the UN has encouraged many third world countries to stop adopt children internationally.

The high demand of Western parents that wants to adopt a child increases the demand. The children are commodities.

 

[Untitled.]

• You have been allowed your original name and culutre
• You have looked for your roots...
• ...without having to pay for it
• You have received all of your adoption papers...
• ...and these match the story of your biological parents

I can see how all of these are extremely difficult to tick, and I can't see how any of these are in violation of any human rights.

I don't think I've heard of any adoptee who hasn't received the name of their foster parents. I can also see how an evil, rich and horribly white couple could find it difficult to not impart their own culture on the child. They probably have never even been to some obscure backend of a forest in Kenya.

Everyone else pays when they look for their roots. I don't see why adopted people should be any different. Having roots far away makes it naturally more difficult to look for them, but again, that's something everyone else has to deal with as well.

Parents are allowed to lie. My parents lied all the time. The most hilarious lie they told me was that you don't grow for the period of time you sleep after 2 AM. For the record, I despise that sort of thing, but how someone wants to bring up their child is the parent's business. What kind of punishment do you recommend for a parent who lied about the adoption of their child? I can see only trouble and bureaucracy.

We all know that there is a lot of poor families out there that can't support their kids, thus giving them up for adoption because they are not financially able to raise them. This is an issue. But why don't we help the families so that they can keep their children that they love instead of taking the children and giving them to rich white couples?

Yes, because an abusive parent with alcohol and/or drug-related issues will magically become interested in his previously neglected child as long as we just throw enough money at him. Or maybe he'll just buy more booze? I don't know, I've never been a parent.

But really, there are all kinds of parents. I think you're a bit heavy on using stereotypes.

 

[pentagathus]

Is there a shortage of children to adopt in Sweden or is there a shortage of babies?

 

[kurczak]

I can also see how an evil, rich and horribly white couple could find it difficult to not impart their own culture on the child. They probably have never even been to some obscure backend of a forest in Kenya.

And if they had been there, why would they raise the kid that way? The kid is (going to be) a Swedish citizen, living in Sweden, so what's so controversial about raising it as a Swede.

 

[Osviux]

Is there a shortage of children to adopt in Sweden or is there a shortage of babies?

Can you blame someone for wanting a baby rather than an insolent brat? Would you rather adopt me or a baby?

 

[Temuzu]

I can also see how an evil, rich and horribly white couple could find it difficult to not impart their own culture on the child. They probably have never even been to some obscure backend of a forest in Kenya.

And if they had been there, why would they raise the kid that way? The kid is (going to be) a Swedish citizen, living in Sweden, so what's so controversial about raising it as a Swede.

Didn't you get the memo? Multiculturalism is the future. Integrating into the local culture is literally internalized colonialism.