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Adopt Diplomacy mod into base game

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epil

Recruit
There is a "Diplomacy" mod in nexus which has 103k unique downloads and 228k total downloads. Bannerlord fanbase are expecting deep vassal & kingdom diplomacy system since day one but developers added very little to that section since then.

But Diplomacy mod, which is developed by only 2 person, adds to game:
  • Messengers (You no longer need to travel all the map to hire a mercenary clan or talk someone)
  • Alliances
  • Non-Aggression Pacts
  • Claiming fiefs that you led the assault on (You can claim fiefs that you've personally conquered by spending influence)
  • Vassal Diplomacy Control
  • War Exhaustion (Wars will end when belligerents reach certain amount of exhaustion)
  • Expansionism
  • Factions and Civil Wars (Vassals will be able to start civil wars in existing kingdoms)
    • Secede from an existing kingdom.
    • Force the ruler of a kingdom to abdicate the throne.
All of those features are pretty much working as intended (some of them needs to be more balanced though). So if there is no legal obstacle I don't see why Taleworlds should not adopt this mod into the base game if mod developers would agree to it. Taleworlds could balance and extend this mod's features instead of slowly developing similar features themselves from zero in distant future.
 
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Tryvenyal

Squire
+1
So if there is no legal obstacle I don't see why Taleworlds should not adopt this mod into the base game if mod developers would agree to it.
Though I think there are legal obstacles as you can't "claim ownership" over the sourcecode of a mod, at least not that holds legally. I can say I own a mod but how do I prove it? I can say I own your mod, how can any of us prove it or disprove each other?
 
War Exhaustion (Wars will end when belligerents reach certain amount of exhaustion)
I agree with everything except this mechanic.
Based on how it is designed it can be unrealistic, forced, anti-immersive and risks canceling certain strategic choices.

What do I mean by that?
If this mechanic turns out to be just a bar that drops over time unrelated to the economic and social condition of a faction, then it will be independent of the strategic choices made in the campaign map.

Conversely, if the mechanics take into account the economy, security, loyalty of the faction's cities, then once a certain minimum tolerance threshold is reached, the various lords will tend to force peace.
Clearly, on the other side, it is not necessarily a positive answer.
And this would lead to the war being prolonged, with the risk of some rebellion and consequent reduction of one's defensive potential against the enemy.

But this does not prevent us from unleashing the same effects on enemy territories, damaging their economy (looting, sabotage (here we need an empire of crime)).

But these strategies require a minimum amount of time in which to defend oneself while trying these defensive maneuvers that do not involve a battle to be applied.

But there is no method in play that prevents the enemy from advancing into the territory to the other side of the map.
If there were a system of logistics and supply lines, this advance could not take place without having a long supply line which would need such protection as to weaken the main army (because it would split to protect the line), with the risk (high) to be defeated by armies that in theory should be small, but which, not having the need to defend any supply line (as they are in their own territory and therefore could easily recreate it), would not have the need to divide and indeed could o attack individually the parties that defend the enemy line, the line itself (bypassing all), the enemy territories (those from which the line starts for example), or the main enemy army that has shrunk in size since it has advanced too.

With this mechanic you would have greater defensive potential for all factions when in your own territory and you should have more attention when invading enemy territory.
It would also be convenient to attack the borders and not go too far into enemy territory.

In this case, the system of exhaustion, not arbitrary, but linked to economy, security and loyalty, would be easier to use and obviously would not be forced, arbitrary or anti-immersive.
 

Tryvenyal

Squire
War Exhaustion (Wars will end when belligerents reach certain amount of exhaustion)
I agree with everything except this mechanic.
Based on how it is designed it can be unrealistic, forced, anti-immersive and risks canceling certain strategic choices.
Can it really be much worse than it is in vanilla where you can cruch 5-10 armies of the enemy without getting an offer for peace? They just returns with a new army of T1-T3. You need to pay 5000 tribute for offering a peace your lords will not accept anyway. I don't know how this feature works in the mod but it´s definatly worth a try over as is. It ofc would be better if the kingdom who lost an army actually became weaker from it... In my recent game, I was in war with Aserai(among others). Their initial power was 8000+ something. I crached their nice army with 1200-1500 upgraded men, ramming them down to ~7000 power. They summoned a new army, quite low-tier with 1000+ men. I defeated them. Putting them down to 5800 power. 2 days later, they had 6800 power and a new extremly low-tier army of 1000+, which I defeated. This last step I repeated 3 more times with the exact same numbers. As their power did not change, the peace-offer did not change in my favour. That´s redicoulus. The only way to defeat them is to raid their villages. I´d love to dissemble my army and order each member to start raiding villages but as you know I count do that!
 
Can it really be much worse than it is in vanilla where you can cruch 5-10 armies of the enemy without getting an offer for peace? They just returns with a new army of T1-T3. You need to pay 5000 tribute for offering a peace your lords will not accept anyway. I don't know how this feature works in the mod but it´s definatly worth a try over as is. It ofc would be better if the kingdom who lost an army actually became weaker from it... In my recent game, I was in war with Aserai(among others). Their initial power was 8000+ something. I crached their nice army with 1200-1500 upgraded men, ramming them down to ~7000 power. They summoned a new army, quite low-tier with 1000+ men. I defeated them. Putting them down to 5800 power. 2 days later, they had 6800 power and a new extremly low-tier army of 1000+, which I defeated. This last step I repeated 3 more times with the exact same numbers. As their power did not change, the peace-offer did not change in my favour. That´s redicoulus. The only way to defeat them is to raid their villages. I´d love to dissemble my army and order each member to start raiding villages but as you know I count do that!
In fact I would suggest introducing everything else in the vanilla version and the exhaustion mechanic leave it as a mod.
It would be a loophole for developers not to find something better.
And this would lead to an exhaustion system that will not allow us to see what more could be added if it were not there.
Many mechanics need other mechanics to balance them.
But if you look at them one by one, this interdependence and the ability to balance each other risks slipping out of sight.

If exhaustion is to be included, it must be linked to the economy and to social and territorial conditions.
If this is not done, I prefer this system to remain a mod.
Everything else instead (diplomacy, alliances, treaties, rights, etc.) SHOULD be introduced in the base game.
 

Lazregamesh

Sergeant
WB
Can it really be much worse than it is in vanilla where you can cruch 5-10 armies of the enemy without getting an offer for peace? They just returns with a new army of T1-T3. You need to pay 5000 tribute for offering a peace your lords will not accept anyway. I don't know how this feature works in the mod but it´s definatly worth a try over as is. It ofc would be better if the kingdom who lost an army actually became weaker from it... In my recent game, I was in war with Aserai(among others). Their initial power was 8000+ something. I crached their nice army with 1200-1500 upgraded men, ramming them down to ~7000 power. They summoned a new army, quite low-tier with 1000+ men. I defeated them. Putting them down to 5800 power. 2 days later, they had 6800 power and a new extremly low-tier army of 1000+, which I defeated. This last step I repeated 3 more times with the exact same numbers. As their power did not change, the peace-offer did not change in my favour. That´s redicoulus. The only way to defeat them is to raid their villages. I´d love to dissemble my army and order each member to start raiding villages but as you know I count do that!
The exhaustion mechanic in that mod was built specifically for that, every victory counts and adds to the % of the enemy war exhaustion, conquering fiefs adds a bigger value and there is the factor of how long the war has been going on (% of Exhaustion grows on both sides exponentially) At the end they have to pay war reparations' to the ruler.
The best mechanic it brings however, is that nations that lose their last fief immediately surrender and pay reparations.
But there is no method in play that prevents the enemy from advancing into the territory to the other side of the map.
If there were a system of logistics and supply lines, this advance could not take place without having a long supply line which would need such protection as to

Oh god please no... If this AI has to deal with another variable like supply lines we are doomed :xf-eek:
Have you played HOI4? Supply lines just don't work man and it is an exercise in frustration in my opinion.
 
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