Additional Map Objects - for a Beautiful, Vibrant, Realistic Calradia

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The map of Calradia is currently rather depressing.  While games like Age of Wonders, Civilization, Conquest of the New World, and Europa Universalis (to a lesser extent) actively draw the player in with maps full of life and sparkle, Calradia is a bit dry.  Almost like a spreadsheet.  And indeed, it is easy to get lost on the map if you zoom in a bit so that you can't see major cities, because there are almost no distinguishing landmarks and the villages look largely the same - specks with names that could be producing who-knows-what, or living on welfare.

To rectify this, I am proposing the addition of a wealth of additional map objects, interactive and not.  Mostly, in fact, they would require just a bit of artwork and could be overlayed on the map near villages the way forests, cities, and bridges are currently overlayed...  or in some cases, even integrated into the base map texture.



Graphical Only
These objects would make the map seem alive and real, instead of...  well, kind of dull, dead, and abstract.  They could also accentuate the changing of seasons.  Also, they provide visual cues as to the economy of a region, making it seem like those bags of wheat come from a field rather than a random number generator (which they actually do).  None, however, are interactive, have any effect on gameplay, can be visited, or require any menus.

Wheat Fields
They can change seasonally, from bare to green to golden to brown.  Most villages should have some.

Grape Vines
For wine-producing areas.  Seasonal changes.

Apple Orchards
Scattered around, adjacent to villages.

Olive Groves
In the oil-producing areas.

Tiny Flocks of Sheep
Basically, clumps of little white dots near villages that produce wool.  They can also change seasonally - tiny and pink in Spring, white in other seasons but steadily increasing in size through Winter.  Note that sheep are a source of mutton in addition to wool (thanks Sulibres).

Stables and Horse Pastures
Horses are not allowed to graze freely like sheep and cows, since they are smart, and run away.  Thus, cities that produce horses (currently all of them, but I don't really see why Nord cities have horse dealerships) could have some evidence of such on the map.

Docks, Piers, and Boats
Any coastal city that sells fish could have an obvious dock jutting out into the ocean, with little fishing boats just offshore.

Tiny Herds of Cattle
Much smaller than the 'cow on the map that you herd around'.  These would be a great way to tell at a glance if a village has cattle without actually finding the Elder and interrogating him.

Mines
Where DOES all that Iron come from?  Any city that exports iron should have at least one mine in a nearby mountain.

Quarries
Similar to mines, for cities that export stone.

Logging Camps
Similar to mines, for cities that export logs.  Obviously they would be on the edge of forests rather than mountains.

Note: Quarries and Logging Camps would not be necessary unless Logs and Stone were added as trade goods.  I think these would be interesting if fief improvements required not only time and money, but also X tools, Y stone, and Z wood.

Ruins of Towns, Castles, and Temples
Zendar is a good example.  Ruins would be a good place to be sent for quests to rescue the kidnapped girl and search for dwemer artifacts.  (thanks Ingolifs)

Seagulls Circling Port Cities
Seagulls love trash, especially fish guts and other waste near docks.  These could be low-poly (3 to 20) models or just sprites.  Ideally, approaching the city, seagull sound effects would play (muted proportionally to distance from the city and zoom level).  The sound of waves crashing when near the shore would be nice too.

Ravens and Vultures Circling Battlegrounds
Battle sites are gone and forgotten very quickly.  It would be nice if they were marked with a gravestone or crossed swords or something for a week, and after a day, black birds circled it (similar to seagulls). (thanks spectre)




Functional
These would not only make the map look more real, but have important impacts on gameplay...  and might require a substantial amount of effort to implement.

Roads
These are essential to any map, and no civilization can function without them.  Caladria has things that might be roads but they don't actually do anything or connect major cities.  Roads should, for example, convey a +50% speed boost...  and be patrolled.  Caravans (with wheeled vehicles) should have an even greater penalty for going off-road.  Light infantry, bandits, and Khergits (the ones on steppe ponies, at least) might have a reduced off-road penalty.

Additional Terrain Types
Marshes and sand dunes particularly would be very interesting strategically and tactically...  not to mention graphically!

Guard Towers
These are much smaller than castles, with no linked town, no prison, and a small max garrison of maybe 8 or 12.  They would be placed at intersections, and serve 3 purposes:
1) Collecting a small toll from foreign caravans
2) Extending sight distance of an empire, via signal flares or flags or pigeons or fast horses
3) Possibly preventing small groups of bandits from walking along the road
They would be too small for your army to spend the night in.

Temporary Fortifications
Small forts made of logs and/or earth, surrounded by sharpened stakes, that can be built in a day or a few days with the 'Fortify' command.  If an army wants to rest somewhere for a while, it could build one.  They should confer defensive benefits, such as a total nullification of cavalry charges and protected archer nests...  but be rather small and short compared to castles.

Bandit Camps
These would be similar in size to villages, hidden until discovered, and spawn bandits of a certain type occasionally until someone finds one and destroys it (a good quest objective).  After a while another one would pop up somewhere.
 
I completely agree with this post.We need somewhat Salt Mines / Iron Mines, wheatfields, ect.
 
those ideas are great, they would so mch atmosphere to this game, and that is an area which M&B is lacking. Great ideas!!!
 
Seems people've been wanting to see it improved since...2005

Check this out:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=2625.0

On the whole, I totaly agree. Nay, I say such things are MUST!
Look at Sid meier's Pirates (allegedly the same genre), the whole world is alive, filled withsweet little details. That's what makes for half of it's charm.
We need swamps, we need deserts, we need more stuff.

Personally, I think making more roads (so that they connect everything that has importance, and making them more lively (signposts, inns, chapels, wells) would improve the main map a great deal. Right now there are some roads, but only near the rhodock capital the density is close to acceptabe (still they look more like dirt roas then something an empire with flourishing cities would build)
The units should be made to stick to the roads, most of the time, and Pathfinding should have no effect while travelling on roads, but instead should (at 10) negate completely the malus for off-road travel. Of course, there may be different quality roads, but that may be asking too much.
Definately, the roads need to be made a bit broader.

Fortify command looks sexy, it could allow us to make outposts, bandit caps, military camps, merchant stops. I am all for it. It should last a day after being built, aftewards it shoul vanish from the map. Also, it should increase healing times, and the AI should be taught to use this.

I really like the idea of fields around the villages (with visible cattle), even if there aren't that many kinds as you propose, It'd be wonderful and bring lots of life.

As to the docks and piers, also wonderful. I am also thinking, M&B could use a lot more coastline, while we're at it.

I am a bit worried if there will be a performance hit, though.

If I may, I'll add a few things:

Roadsigns
Simple thing, yet it would add some variety to the landscape, they should be placed on crossroads and every few miles of a road.

Wildlife
Not too much of it, but perhaps there could be an odd, two polygon bird here and there, perhaps an occasional boar or deer near the forests?
If hunting were to be introduced at some time, this would indicate where you can find some prey.

Battlefields
Currently, we just hav a big X there, and I'd like something which would indicate a battlefield more clearly, like a pile of corpses (could scale accordingly to the size of battle) with some circling crows.

Monuments
I know Caladria has no religion, officially, only hints of it, but there could be an odd menhir here and there (possibly away from civilization), maybe a stonehenge, or some other unique ruins?
 
Something along these lines but kinda different is the POV of the camera need to be different.  Its above and behind the player's head atm.  It makes looking at everything . . . weird.  The villages and cities all look great, but the POV is so unnatural.  I know its third person, but there are lots of third person games that the POV works, like the Gothic series.  Mount and Blade just looks weird with the current POV.

Yeah, this is talking about the map, but I figure what is the point of a good lookin map if they rest of the game doesnt look good.
 
spectre: 说:
If I may, I'll add a few things:
By all means, feel free!

Wildlife
Not too much of it, but perhaps there could be an odd, two polygon bird here and there, perhaps an occasional boar or deer near the forests?
If hunting were to be introduced at some time, this would indicate where you can find some prey.
Birds would be great.  And though it would certainly take a lot more work, so would clouds.  Chrono Trigger, unless I misremember, had both birds and clouds occasionally pass through the foreground, and they were very atmospheric (excuse the pun).  Cartoony, though, as cartoon clouds were about all the SNES could handle.

Battlefields
Currently, we just have a big X there, and I'd like something which would indicate a battlefield more clearly, like a pile of corpses (could scale accordingly to the size of battle) with some circling crows.
That would be neat too.  Looters could cluster around it after everyone else leaves, like hyenas.  Jagged Alliance 2 had a fun (and gory) portrayal of post-battle scenes.  An hour later, the corpses were still there in their pools of blood.  But a few days later...  they were rotting human-shaped piles of festering meat surrounded by crows, and if you were very sneaky, you could get close enough to the crows to punch them, making them explode in a burst of feathers, giving you a 1% chance of +1 agility :smile:
Dead Caladrians get no respect even from the birds.  Just a big red X, and a minute later, they never even existed.

Art Falmingaid 说:
Yeah, this is talking about the map, but I figure what is the point of a good lookin map if they rest of the game doesnt look good.
I've always thought it looked pretty good - and certainly much better than the map.  But either way, you have to make improvements where you can, and people (myself, anyway) spend a lot of time looking at the map.  Sometimes I get nostalgic about a game, or an urge to play it, just because the map was so pretty and refreshing...  regardless of other aspects that may not have been done as well.
 
Awesome ideas all of them, but the one that got me to laughing was Spectre and the wildlife idea.  Imagine an encounter similar to the random bandits in a village you would get attacked by a wild boar or have a chance for a quick shot at a deer.  Standing toe-to-toe with a wild boar, pack of wild dogs or a charging bear would be a lot more fun than slapping around a few bandits for trying to steal you gold purse.

Great post Saber Cherry.  I agree 100%, more simple scenery and simple random events.
 
I Raise 2 hand 2 feet to support this Idea.
Bravo, hope someone care to put it in action.
 
I'm strongly in favour of infrastructure, agriculture and structures, but not of wildlive, livestock or other living things. A proper road system where parties usually travel along it, heavily forested areas (this really requires the road system) and farmlands would be enough to hugely improve the feel of the map. That and replacing the current settlement icons with more realistic ones, such as a lot of little buildings dotting the area where there's a town etc.
 
These are great ideas and I think they are really needed. It all seems like little touches but it is these little things which may well make or break a commercial game. These little details may mean the difference between a great game with a good sized cult following and a major bestseller. The importance of these little details should not be under-estimated.

I like everything in the OP's post and I think these additional touches from spectre would be great as well:
spectre: 说:
Roadsigns
Simple thing, yet it would add some variety to the landscape, they should be placed on crossroads and every few miles of a road.

Wildlife
Not too much of it, but perhaps there could be an odd, two polygon bird here and there, perhaps an occasional boar or deer near the forests?
If hunting were to be introduced at some time, this would indicate where you can find some prey.

Battlefields
Currently, we just hav a big X there, and I'd like something which would indicate a battlefield more clearly, like a pile of corpses (could scale accordingly to the size of battle) with some circling crows.

Monuments
I know Caladria has no religion, officially, only hints of it, but there could be an odd menhir here and there (possibly away from civilization), maybe a stonehenge, or some other unique ruins?

@ Enar I can't see wildlife ambushing the player, usually the player is with a large party. Boars don't attack armies, they just just don't.

If they enabled "hunting", I imagine that you would simply click on the little boar icon on the map to "hunt" the same way that you "attack" other parties. But you would appear in the battle map alone and the orders/map screen would be unavailable. But this is a topic for another thread. Without hunting then the wildlife details would just be nice little aesthetic touches.
 
Zaro 说:
I'm strongly in favour of infrastructure, agriculture and structures, but not of wildlive, livestock or other living things. A proper road system where parties usually travel along it, heavily forested areas (this really requires the road system) and farmlands would be enough to hugely improve the feel of the map. That and replacing the current settlement icons with more realistic ones, such as a lot of little buildings dotting the area where there's a town etc.

Wholly agree with you Zaro, one step at a time. IIRC, didn't you do some elaborate icons for town, showing scattered settlements and farmlands?

Zathan
 
Of course, we don't need too much at once, and roads and villages seem like a nice place to start.

Also, another thought, maybe village models could change, depending on prosperity and improvements built?
 
Zaro 说:
I'm strongly in favour of infrastructure, agriculture and structures, but not of wildlive, livestock or other living things. A proper road system where parties usually travel along it, heavily forested areas (this really requires the road system) and farmlands would be enough to hugely improve the feel of the map. That and replacing the current settlement icons with more realistic ones, such as a lot of little buildings dotting the area where there's a town etc.

Great idead SaberCherry, Zaro I think has a more realistic & achievable idea. A simple agricultural/farm texture could be added to the world map around villages & cities a-la-MTW map.

I'm all for:
Toll/guard towers
Roads

Each would be great if they had a gameplay element as described above...

Anything other than textures, like 3d objects, might start to look a bit out of place at the moment. I agree with the OP though that the addition of them would be fantastic, its just that the whole map would have to be re-done to include them.
 
spectre: 说:
Also, another thought, maybe village models could change, depending on prosperity and improvements built?

You'd certainly expect this sort of feature in a new game from a larger software company.
 
spectre: 说:
Also, another thought, maybe village models could change, depending on prosperity and improvements built?

Possibly, but for now I'd be happy with just better icons / map around the villages, cities etc.
One thing that could be done however, is to let the wheat-fields etc change colour from vibrant green/yellow in spring/summer to brown in autumn/winter. IIRC this is currently done for mountaintops (less snow in summer).
Zathan
 
I think that completely overhauling the map with all of the OPs non-functional ideas is not too much to start out with at all..

It would actually end up being more work in the long run to add a little bit now and a little bit later, it is also more likely that it ends up being a less cohesive design graphically.

It would be kind of pointless to add some things to make the map look a little bit better, because that would still be bland and it would still fail to really draw one in with it's detail and beauty. Which means it would be work that was essentially wasted as it would not have actually addressed the problem.. Yes, it may look a little better, yet the problem would remain. If the map is to be overhauled then it may as well be done right in one go.

Even adding the 3D elements that were described by the OP would not be an inordinate amount of work, we are not talking about highly detailed 3D models of any great complexity.

The one thing that I would add off the top of my head:
It would be nice to be able to zoom all the way in to where the camera is very close to your character and the angle fully horizontal so you can see the world map from your parties POV.
 
One thing that could be done however, is to let the wheat-fields etc change colour from vibrant green/yellow in spring/summer to brown in autumn/winter.

I'd prefer a shader that affects the world map, desaturated for winter and weak light, bright and yellow for spring, even brighter in summer and strong light, and an orange/red tinge for autumn. Fog appearing more heavily on the world map would be interesting.

A simple agricultural/farm texture could be added to the world map around villages & cities a-la-MTW map

We could achieve a lot with this technique if we could add terrain to the map editor. Agriculture textures, proper looking roads (paths), more variation in any specific type of terrain (more interesting and less tiling) etc.

Even adding the 3D elements

Signs, small buildings etc would work well.
 
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