Additional cultures

[Fujiwara]

Feel free to torch me if this has been mentioned before, but I think (probably for M&B2) that some additional cultures would be very cool. Armagan has done an excellent job modelling the arms, armour, and vestements for a barbarian culture (the vaegirs) and a more civilized, 14th-15th C. culture. How about some Turkish arms? A zischagge or a shishak would be very striking. I almost hesitate to mention Japanese arms and armour, but that would be very cool to see, a force of mounted samurai bearing down on some hapless enemy...yeah, very cool indeed

 

[Ilex]

Well I would like to see more cultures in MB (not just MB2 ). But bringing "Japanese arms and armour" I consider a bit ridiculous (no offence meant), for their weapons and gear are not designed to fight heavily armoured troops (at least not any platemail). I guess they *could* wear platemail, but they still would need weapons meant to penetrate armor. This is of course if they have seen any of the other factions ever before (if they haven't there should be a LONG distance or such).
EDIT: Oh and do correct me if I am wrong .

 

[Nairagorn]

Some folks are starting a mod for more oriental cultures, check out the mods section.

 

[ryujin]

yeah a japanese mod would be really cool

 

[Rando]

Who'd of thought that the Bruce Lee fan would be for a Japanese mod?

Anyways, I would like to see a Eastern mod but I really wouldn't want it in the main game. Many people have pointed out that the samurai equipment was pretty dated by the time this seems to be around (I don't think samurai's had metal armor, I might be wrong though). Until armagan decides to make Saddle&Katana, I'll wait for a mod or play Dynasty Warriors (and yes I know it's Chinese and not Japanese, I don't care, it still rocks).

 

[Frost27]

I would love to see it in the main game, but not just as a throw in.

Add different kingdoms with different trainers (like the one in Zandar yet different) where you can learn that culture's fighting styles. A knightly squire cant just pick up a katana or naginata and go to town, the stances, swings, cutting styles etc are all different.

Say you went to a barbarian style town and learned a straight forward all out offensive style with berzerker like swings and lower defense but higher damage. Maybe a medieval english culture and learned a balanced offense/defense style that was more armor reliant. The Japanese styles could be elegant and exotic style swings, high damage with slightly better ability to block with a weapon, but as a balance you couldnt fight well, or your attack speed and damage were severely hampered if you wore anything over light- medium armor. Cartain cultures could fight better from horseback and gain benefits while fighting mounted while suffering penalties on foot.

This could really be expanded on with the various factions and nations involved since maybe one nation doesnt like another, and your stand with one affects how thier allies view you also, so you may have to pick a faction where say, merchants pay less and certain weaponry is much more expensive in order to learn thier fighting styles which may be good to compinsate for the hard road of moneymaking.

As far as Japanese weapons not being able to pierce armor, thats pretty far from the truth. The Japanese lamellar was no joke and thier weapons were quite effective. Thier weapons were really no different than western weaponry as far as functionality. Sure a Katana might have a rough time getting through plate, but its slender enough to go between plates, the same as fighting an armored opponent with a long sword. A Nodachi would do just fine against armor.

Certain other styles would be nice too, middle eastern fighting styles and weaponry, russian, chinese. The bigger the world the better and the bigger this already great game gets the better. More variety = more play value in the long run since more cultures = more options and replayability.

 

[Destichado]

As far as Japanese weapons not being able to pierce armor, thats pretty far from the truth. The Japanese lamellar was no joke and thier weapons were quite effective. Thier weapons were really no different than western weaponry as far as functionality. Sure a Katana might have a rough time getting through plate, but its slender enough to go between plates, the same as fighting an armored opponent with a long sword. A Nodachi would do just fine against armor.

THAT is quite false. Have you ever seen a demonstration of Helmet-cutting? It's rather impressive -if you know what a sword is for, and how it fares against steel. If you don't, and you see the little-bitty gash the katana makes in the helmet, you wind up feeling gypped.

Katana are *not* slender, especially not in comparison to western blades -they're FAT, and they only cut well because of good edge geometry and superior polishing/sharpening. Sharpening, which if abused by striking steel, will be absolutly wasted. If you want to contend with someone in an iron box, you need to look for another weapon. May I reccoment a yari or tetsubo? The Nodachi was no better in this respect, because the blade geometry is exactly the same.

The katana was only so effective in Japan because of the LACK of armour. Yes, armour existed, and was generally well-made. However, as anyone who's read about the making of katana knows, steel was a rare and valued comodity, being found only in black sand and being of low quality. That was what necessitated the laborious folding process in the first place -it got the carbon content up and made the best out of a comparitively bad steel. Europe, on the other hand, was metal ritch.

 

[Destichado]

If anything remotely Japanese, Chinese or Korean is ever included in the game, I demand to see Indians!!!

Screw those dumb Kabbage Kutters, I want Tulwars and Madus and Dha and Dahls, and ten-tailed flails and three-section staves and hollow-steel maces!

 

[Ingolifs]

Interestingly i've seen tales of no-dachis cleave soldiers on their horses in ONE blow. That's pretty nasty in my books.

 

[Frost27]

Anyone who would attempt to cleave a helmet with a katana deserves what he gets. Its not a chopper, and yes, its meant to cut flesh. Thats why a No Dachi would be more useful. A naginata, while its "blade geometry" may be similar or the same is used much differently, in fact it was demonstrated to be an amazingly effective weapon fighting from horseback.

The samurai used stirrups that rather than going around the side of the foot like a western stirrup, came down over the top of the foot to curve past the toes (completely covering the front of the foot) and widening out to a flat shelf to set the foot on. (hard to describe). These allowed the samurai to stand at thier full height in the stirrups at full gallop and swing the Naginata at targets in front of the horse with deadly efficiency.

But like my post above said, its all about learning the style.

Besides how many people would one realistically come across on a battlefield in full plate armor? Not many. Europe being metal rich, the armor was still bloody expensive, and no lord wanted to spend that kind of money on a foot soldier that was probably going to die anyway.

The best most footmen could hope for was a skullcap and a chain shirt.

On a similar note, the standard footsoldier in feudal Japan wasnt even Samurai, they were generally conscripted Ashigaru or local peasants.
The samurai were the elite.

I think with a proper balancing and world expansion, something like this could fit in well.

 

[Orion]

maybe... but, you all know about the big ocean in Calradia, right? The really big one near Tihr and Wercheg? Maybe they could put in a transportation system that allows you to go from Calradia to some other continent or maybe just an island...? There could be another culture on that island/continent, and they have their own weapons and fighting styles and stuff. I think we could actually put oriental stuff in to M&B without hurting what we already have, but we can't put the Han Dynasty between the Vaegirs and Swadians. That wouldn't look right. Put it on an island/continent of its own. The transportation could be simple, just go to wercheg or tihr and click the new button that would be put there that says somethin like "Go to the Docks," you talk to the NPC, pay like... 100 denars, and then you're on your way to the other continent (you're really just teleported to their port-city where you can go to travel back to Calradia any time)

We need samurai.

Ninjas too.

 

[Allegro]

The game has an euroasian culture in it, far eastern cultures wont fit in this game. By the way it alerady has a bit Turkish culture, look at the steppe and nomad people in the game and especially Khergits.

 

[Ingolifs]

One thing i find interesting is that you can completely deck yourself out in nomad gear. Nomad cap, nomad armour, nomad sabre, nomad shield, nomad boots, nomad bow.

The steppe cap is very mongolian as well.

 

[Ilex]

Well atleast I hope no one makes Japan in the game. Well I could not download it but it feels kinda wrong when there are the vaegirs, the swadians and the japanese . They could use similiar gear, but it would be nice that it wasn't a photocopy of Japan (this is if "Japan" is added to the game not made a mod about Japan removing swadians and vaegirs).

 

[Temujin]

more attention to a mongol culture would be nice. in the beginning I thought the vaegirs would be the mongol culture untill I noticed their horsemen don't become horse archers.

It's hard to recruit khergit horsemen, too hard. also I think the steppe horses should be a lot faster. wasn't their tactic to outrun the ennemy and shoot arrows at hiim in the process

 

[Allegro]

The steppe cap is very mongolian as well.

Mongolian and Turkish cultures are similar and both affected europe, they are not far easterns like china or japan.

also I think the steppe horses should be a lot faster. wasn't their tactic to outrun the ennemy and shoot arrows at hiim in the process

Yes definitely they should be faster.

 

[Ryuta]

I'd like to see more of Turkish culture, maybe in the west of Vaegirs.

I'm not in for Japanese culture and I'm Japanese. It would break the game's style completely. I think a few exported Japanese weapon or artifact is ok, though.

As for the fighting, Katana is always the sidearm through out the history. Their primary weapon was,bow, then spear, finally firearm (don't believe what the people said in the Last Samurai. Samurai loves firearms. They loved so much that they established several firearm martial arts). Katana demands the user's skill (a novice can't cut even a stick with it, and the sword will bend) and not effective against armour, in generral. Moreover, the maker's skill influence the effectiveness and strength considerably. A sword made by inferior maker (sometimes, even by a master swordsmith) break, or bent beyond repair with a single hit.

 

[Orion]

I still think my idea of traveling off to another continent/island is a good one.

The only way you could get that culture's weapons is by going to that culture's continent. Besides, this is a game. Not a simulation of what real life was like back in the middle ages. Ok?

We want to make it an interesting, realistic RPG. Not a European Warrior Simulation. Right now, that's pretty much what it is. Perhaps, since there are mountains near Veluca, Tulga, etc., and that's where all the steppe bandits come from, we could have a passage between Calradia and some other part of the continent, where things were a bit more far-eastern styled. There could be a mongolian empire there or something, with the turks and stuff further south. These 2 could be allies to Swadians/Vaegirs, neutral, or w/e. They could even be having their own war amongst them selves. On one side of the mountains, you have 2 european cultures. The other side, mongolians versus turks!

Much fun.

 

[JohnathanStrange]

I've always felt that the Calradian world is very very loosely based on medieval European and Near Middle Eastern settings.

Being a fantasy world, why couldn't we have cultures that resemble Japanese warriors and use Japanese weapons? Or nomad cultures that resemble American Indian light cavalry types - using light-chain mail and bows? This is not a historical wargame after all.

I'm not particularly in favor of supernatural fantasy elements in M&B (no magic for me in this version) but alternative-world type stuff is fine with me.

Apparently it is for Armagan too. If he had wanted a strict by-the-book simulation of medieval Europe then why did he create Calradia and not simply recreate a map of France or England? Obviously, he wanted the freedom to intrepret and add features as he saw fit. Now, no one can say " How unrealistic! Plate armor of that type wasn't invented until the..."

It would be cool even if these were optionalcultures. Like in RTS or CIV games where before game start you check who's invited to the party: if you don't want certain cultures, you check them off, and there are no spawning of those groups.

 

[Ilex]

Well we could have cultures that resemble those we had in the medieval times. But if one wants to be a ***** one could say that cultures (especially isolated like China and Japan [when speaking in reference to Europe]) have the customs they have because the setting was actually like it was in the medieval time (and before ofcourse). I believe that both European and Far-Asian cultures would be very different if they could have comminunicated better (were closer). Of course we could have separate lands that can't comminunicate.
Anyway this is a fantasy setting so I guess anything goes and who wants to be a *****. And as optionalcultures I guess noone could say a word against the idea (beside the point they require work).