Adding a little dynamic to the fights / more duels / titles / new faction

[Eoc]

At first, I would like to explain my suggestions in detail, so you can get my point. If you just want a quick overview of the suggestions in this thread, scroll down a bit to the end of the first post.

Have you ever attacked a castle and clashed with the castle’s defence troops at the end of the siege tower/ladder? Well, if you really played M & B, I suppose you have.
If so, have you also seen that, in the majority of cases, there is NOTHING behind them, which would prevent them from falling reaaaaaally deep? ^^ ( At this point, let me also suggest an increase of the damage dealt to people, when falling from certain heights. The current damage for this is RIDICULOUSLY low!)

In other words: Wouldn’t it be great, if you could just push them back und watch how they fall into their doom? ; ) (I hereby request some “fall into death”-animations & sounds)


Well, all jokes aside for a moment ^^
It would really enrich the fights (especially the duels) in M & B if a “push”-, or maybe “kick”-move would be implemented. Of course the effect of push/kick and being pushed/kicked would differ, depending on how heavy the armor/equipment you wear is, your strength-level and the ground you stand on (even or not). I’m thinking of something similar like in “Dark Messiah”, if some of you know the game. It’s not my intention to just steal features from DM, but one of the best points of this game are its dynamic fights. I really like M&B, and I’m aware that M&B focuses on fights in bigger numbers than in DM, but the fighting system in M&B would be even better with a bit more dynamic. (btw: Could be made also somehow related to shield bash, which has been already suggested.)

(Edit: something similar to a "stamina gauge" has already been suggested...sry ^^")
In correspondence with the push/kick, I would also like to suggest a “stamina gauge”. This gauge would decrease every time you take an action different than just standing or walking. Also running would cause your "stamina gauge” to decrease a little. (I know sprinting was already suggested xyz-times, so I’m not going to suggest that ^^ If implemented, it would, of course, cause a drastic decrease of the "stamina gauge”) If the "stamina gauge” is empty, you cannot attack anymore for a while (and also move/walk slower), so you will have to focus on blocking (which costs little stamina, compared to attacking), while waiting for the steadily increasing stamina to allow more actions. In general the attack speed should be a bit faster, if the gauge is nearly full/full and decrease along with the gauge. Of course, there should be "stamina-skills to determine the max "stamina" and the "stamina" regeneration.
These two suggestions are just my personal thoughts on how to make M&Bs fights more dynamic. They go along with my previous suggestions about "Throw option for ALL weapons/Melee fighting with ALL weapons" in this thread.



Aside from this “dynamic”-stuff, I’d like to suggest 3 “little” things ^^


1. More duels with Noblemen/Lords/Assassins/Headhunter.
There are some duels of this sort in the game, but very few. I would enjoy more of this “face to face”-duels. If possible, also without horses. (I LOVE the horsefighting, but…a bit of variety would be really nice ^^”) I’m thinking of things like:

Challenge lords for fiefs/titles/the favour of a maiden (which doesn’t mean he maybe wouldn’t come back to regain his fief/revenge his disgrace later…with his army behind his back)

Instead of being attacked by a bunch of pathetic thieves (surprise attack), being attacked by a single, but GOOD Assassin (sent from my most hated rivals) or Headhunter

Maybe their skills and equipment could be adapted to the player, so these fights stay challenging even in the advanced game. (Seriously, once you have a moderate level, the “surprise” attacks are just a joke. I think, I could kill them with my eyes closed…)

2. As mentioned in the point before: titles ^^

I know, many M&B-Players just write “Lord” or “King” or whatever into the name of their char-name (so do I : P ) But the achieving of REAL titles would be utmost motivating, I think. If you enter the room with the lord in a castle or town, (or maybe even a ball, where diplomatic issues are discussed? XD) you would be announced with the titles you have achieved. That would be cool, to put it in simple terms ^^

3. And one more: there are really great factions in this game. Each one represents a totally different culture and way of fighting, and that’s absolutely great! So how about another one? I’m thinking of a Japanese faction, as they have a very special and individual way of waging war. I AM well aware, that NO Japanese stuff should ever occur in a game with medieval-setting, but seriously: If you are looking for realistic medieval (meaning the meeting of the different cultures ^^), you shouldn’t play M&B ; ) Like the meeting of Vikings and Mongols in the game. But well, just an idea.


Well, just my 2 cent.
You are welcome to criticise as much as you want, as long as it is constructive criticism.
This bein’ said:

Cheers


Suggestions in short & explained

“push”/”kick”-move

Enemy will be dealt no/little damage. Depending on your own strength, the weight of the enemy (armor + equipment), he will: stumble backwards, but keep standing / stumble backwards and go on one knee / stumble backwards and fall (or something like this)


increase damage from falling from certain heights

Just do it! : (


Stamina gauge (Edit: something similar has already been suggested, my apologies)

All actions cause this gauge to decrease

little stamina gauge => player is forced to block / char moves slower / attack speed decreases along with gauge

full stamina gauge => slight bonus on attack speed

can also be used to limit sprints (if implemented)


More duels with Noblemen/Lords/Assassins/Headhunters

Challenge lords for fiefs/titles/the favour of a maiden

Defend yourself against a single, but skilled, enemy instead of a bunch of weaklings in surprise attacks.

Noblemen/Lords/Assassins/Headhunters adapt to your own strength, to allow always challenging duels

Assassins are being sent when you make hateful rivals

Headhunter start attack you at a certain renown value


Titles

Achieve your own titles, by fighting against noblemen/lords/serving well under your lord

Be announced with your own titles, when entering a room with lords


New faction

Japanese faction?

 

[Lukaz]

I think you mean Faction , well for me there are enough of them , thats why there are mods for diffrent cultures and timelines.
I am for the diffrent duels, and the assasing guy that ambushes you, maybe in a city or a village.
Also the kick/push move doesnt sound that bad. Imagine being kicked down a wall.

 

[Eoc]

I think you mean Faction

Oops.

well for me there are enough of them , thats why there are mods for diffrent cultures and timelines.

Well, of course thats what mods are for, but since it is the only other culture with a long war-waging history, wouldn't a Japanese faction be an obvious choice? ^^ I mean, once such a faction is implemented in the game, all mentionable cultures (concerning WAR culture  ) would be combined in M&B.

 

[Tintin]

Have you ever attacked a castle and clashed with the castle’s defence troops at the end of the siege tower/ladder? Well, if you really played M & B, I suppose you have.
If so, have you also seen that, in the majority of cases, there is NOTHING behind them, which would prevent them from falling reaaaaaally deep?

Do you mean they should be able to fall? You could just remove the ai_limiter

 

[Eoc]

Do you mean they should be able to fall? You could just remove the ai_limiter

Well ^^" I'm not 100% sure, but I think you got me wrong there...
I was trying to explain why a push/kick-move would be very useful in this situation. Sometimes enemies are pushed back, when hit, but only in a few cases. I think that should be more easier to pull off. (Someone in the forum already suggested a shield bash, which would be similar)

 

[Nervous_Man]

I like these ideas very much, especially the Assassin/more dueling part!

And maybe, when your relation with certain towns goes really low, they'd form angry mobs and hit squads to get you, instead of the very small chance of the same damn 3/4 bandits every time. Either more skilled bandits or more of them, and with a little more variety in equipment..

I'm a bit iffy on the "stamina" issue, though. While it would bring some new tactics and realism to the mix, I think it'd just be an annoyance since :

A: If you're going on foot, it takes a lot of time to reach the enemy on a battlefield if you don't run. And if you did run, your stamina would be depleted by the time you reach your enemy, forcing you to catch breath before you'll attack the enemy. In a hail of arrows, no less in most scenarios.

B: The AI isn't probably going to adjust to this easily. Seen in Total War games, where the A.I runs everywhere like a downs child on speed and exhausts itself, presenting an easy victory.

But all in all, good ideas.

 

[Eoc]

I like these ideas very much, especially the Assassin/more dueling part!

And maybe, when your relation with certain towns goes really low, they'd form angry mobs and hit squads to get you, instead of the very small chance of the same damn 3/4 bandits every time. Either more skilled bandits or more of them, and with a little more variety in equipment.

Very interesting point. I never thought of a whole village turning against you. (Is there some kind of attack in the current game, if your relationvalue is low? I never raided anything so I don't know myself ^^")

In order to make this "mob forming" more interesting, I think a bit of control about taxes would be nice. So you can decide whether you want the village to pay a BIG amount of tax, in exchange for relationpoints, or less money and and a few more relationpoints. If you want a mountain of money several times in a row, they'll pay nothing and await you with a mob when you come and want to check on them.

I'm a bit iffy on the "stamina" issue, though. While it would bring some new tactics and realism to the mix, I think it'd just be an annoyance since :

A: If you're going on foot, it takes a lot of time to reach the enemy on a battlefield if you don't run. And if you did run, your stamina would be depleted by the time you reach your enemy, forcing you to catch breath before you'll attack the enemy. In a hail of arrows, no less in most scenarios.

B: The AI isn't probably going to adjust to this easily. Seen in Total War games, where the A.I runs everywhere like a downs child on speed and exhausts itself, presenting an easy victory.

But all in all, good ideas.

I now spent about 10-15 min thinking about your comment. It was my intention to bring "new tactics and realism" to the game, as you mentioned it. Well...but somehow I can't help, but agree with you in the "annoyance"-point. It seems I didn't think far enough.

[ o(^^o) | 5 min later ^^" | (o^^)o ]

But now that I think about it: Would it be so bad?

You said that it would take a lot of time to reach the enemy by foot, which is indeed true. Well, if you don't like it, you can just skill a) athletics or b) your stamina-skills (so you can run or even sprint for a few secs) or c) get a damn horse. (You have a horse from the very beginning. Actually I'm against having a horse all the time, but for this argument it comes in handy ;P )
And just in case you were stupid enough to get rid of your horse for some reason: get a freakin' shield and advance by foot (run and catch your breath behind your shield)

The athletics and stamina skills would win importance and you'll have to care about your horse. If the player is stupid enough to ignore this, then he'll/she'll be punished by advancing slowly. I think its good to punish players for obvious stupidities.

As for your point B...No solution to that, sry ^^" I just don't have enough expierence in stuff like this, to come up with a solution. (I never played any other game of this setting before...)

 

[Nervous_Man]

But now that I think about it: Would it be so bad?

I spent a good while pondering the stamina issue and realized a very obvius thing : it could be an option in the difficulty menu so that players  can toggle it on/off if they want to. More options to enhance realism is definitely a good thing!

I certainly hope we'll see a possibility for this in the next M&B expansion/sequel, if not in the "official" version, then at least in the mods sometime in the future..

 

[Eoc]

I spent a good while pondering the stamina issue and realized a very obvius thing : it could be an option in the difficulty menu so that players  can toggle it on/off if they want to. More options to enhance realism is definitely a good thing!

Quite a comfortable solution ^^ But effective! I'm just worrying about the stamina skills. The skillpoints spent there, would be wasted if you turn off the staminaoption...well maybe you can just rearrange your skill points when you change the option. Or just go without any stamina skills at all.

I certainly hope we'll see a possibility for this in the next M&B expansion/sequel, if not in the "official" version, then at least in the mods sometime in the future..

Let's have a toast to that! *brings out the scotch*