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Abuse of the votekicking system needs serious attention

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Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Now that people mention mods, don't the EA (Chinese) servers have in game moderators or am I mistaken?
 
You completely miss my point! And quite selectively pick out parts that suit your narrative!

I'm sorry, I thought I talk to James_Lindsay, not Donald Trump.
The server I played on didnt have a kick poll!!! Because it was hosted by a random person and had no rewards nor any competitive or ranked aspect, it had moderators that get to kick sb if they dislike em or think they are hacking thats that!

It doesn't matter what kind of server we're talking about. When you were bad, ppl let you play, the mods on the private server did that, everyone on IG_Battlegrounds did that (should be proof enough that I played Warband, I started in 2010 btw) and everyone was fine with that. For me it was absolutely inspiring to see all those good players massively wrecking me on IG all the time and you could get in touch with them and got better. Now people actively prevent this from happening by kicking players.

Now we have people that have the audacity to kick new players in a public lobby because they are not as good as them. How dare they, just because in their tiny mind, they feel proud that they are under the top 50 in a 250 men multiplayer game, think that they have the right to do it?

Just so you don't think I have something against you which I don't have: Your two solutions (ranked and casual lobbies aswell as Custom Servers) are very very important to save this Multiplayer from the absolute desaster currently displayed and noone that did touch Warband beforehand will disagree. But I will not defend people kicking people out of lobbies because they need to save their ego that otherwise would be broken if they loose a match in a casual(!) skirmish round.

I would quote Gibby's post because it sums it up perfectly, but instead I will just say: Thank you @Gibby Jr for the nice words you've told me years ago, it made me very proud back in the day and I still remember it!
 
I'm sorry, I thought I talk to James_Lindsay, not Donald Trump.


It doesn't matter what kind of server we're talking about. When you were bad, ppl let you play, the mods on the private server did that, everyone on IG_Battlegrounds did that (should be proof enough that I played Warband, I started in 2010 btw) and everyone was fine with that. For me it was absolutely inspiring to see all those good players massively wrecking me on IG all the time and you could get in touch with them and got better. Now people actively prevent this from happening by kicking players.

Now we have people that have the audacity to kick new players in a public lobby because they are not as good as them. How dare they, just because in their tiny mind, they feel proud that they are under the top 50 in a 250 men multiplayer game, think that they have the right to do it?

Just so you don't think I have something against you which I don't have: Your two solutions (ranked and casual lobbies aswell as Custom Servers) are very very important to save this Multiplayer from the absolute desaster currently displayed and noone that did touch Warband beforehand will disagree. But I will not defend people kicking people out of lobbies because they need to save their ego that otherwise would be broken if they loose a match in a casual(!) skirmish round.

I would quote Gibby's post because it sums it up perfectly, but instead I will just say: Thank you @Gibby Jr for the nice words you've told me years ago, it made me very proud back in the day and I still remember it!
You simply cannot affect an entire playerbase, if ppl wna kick sb they will regardless of reason. It is ridiculous to take out the kickpoll because the issue lies not therein. Warband had a kickpoll too.

What is your proposition and what is gibbys proposition. It is nonsense. Everyone kicks and votes, regardless of skill! Bad and good players are equally likely to kick sb if they consider them useless in the team. Gibby would leave a game upon seeing the enemy stack so hed rather not get rekt, he is irrelevant and so is what he says. Kicking ppl has nothing to do with ego but simple enjoyment.

(The server I played on or most other warband ones were meant for that, ppl to have fun and train) Skirmish isnt that so comparing them is nonsense)

Currently it is not enjoyable to get stomped by stacks and thats the way it is. I just dont understand what half of the ppl arguing on this forum are proposing, for they are simply ranting about the community being toxic and kicking ppl left right and centre. That is true tho the community is such and they are doing so, so what?

What do you suggest outside of thinking you are a better person for not kicking sb? If anything it is an ego trip for ppl to proudly beat their chest and claim they kicked nobody for being bad. But it is a truth of reality if you are bad you will get kicked in any competitive field even ur job. So ranked has and will always be like that take an example of any other such game even popular ones such as CS GO. Kicking ppl is there to stay and the issue is completely within reasonable adjustments to the MP. system. Casual needs not have kickpoll and even if it does it wont be abused the way it is now for there wont be any purpose. The sweat will be limited to ranked.
 

Aeronwen

Marquis
You simply cannot affect an entire playerbase, if ppl wna kick sb they will regardless of reason. It is ridiculous to take out the kickpoll because the issue lies not therein. Warband had a kickpoll too.

What is your proposition and what is gibbys proposition. It is nonsense. Everyone kicks and votes, regardless of skill! Bad and good players are equally likely to kick sb if they consider them useless in the team. Gibby would leave a game upon seeing the enemy stack so hed rather not get rekt, he is irrelevant and so is what he says. Kicking ppl has nothing to do with ego but simple enjoyment.

(The server I played on or most other warband ones were meant for that, ppl to have fun and train) Skirmish isnt that so comparing them is nonsense)

Currently it is not enjoyable to get stomped by stacks and thats the way it is. I just dont understand what half of the ppl arguing on this forum are proposing, for they are simply ranting about the community being toxic and kicking ppl left right and centre. That is true tho the community is such and they are doing so, so what?

What do you suggest outside of thinking you are a better person for not kicking sb? If anything it is an ego trip for ppl to proudly beat their chest and claim they kicked nobody for being bad. But it is a truth of reality if you are bad you will get kicked in any competitive field even ur job. So ranked has and will always be like that take an example of any other such game even popular ones such as CS GO. Kicking ppl is there to stay and the issue is completely within reasonable adjustments to the MP. system. Casual needs not have kickpoll and even if it does it wont be abused the way it is now for there wont be any purpose. The sweat will be limited to ranked.
Warband didnt have a limit of 6 players per team. So to have everyone vote to kick a player there would have to be a reason that a considerable number of people agreed with.
Kicking because you dont think another player is good enough to play with you is abusive and in IG Battlegrounds (the best run Warband server) would have got you banned from the server until you posted that you refrain abusing the system in future.

It is rediculous and self defeating to effectively prevent new players from joining and learning the MP game. TW need to remove the incentive for players to abuse the kick system or ban the players who abuse it.
 
Warband didnt have a limit of 6 players per team. So to have everyone vote to kick a player there would have to be a reason that a considerable number of people agreed with.
Kicking because you dont think another player is good enough to play with you is abusive and in IG Battlegrounds (the best run Warband server) would have got you banned from the server until you posted that you refrain abusing the system in future.

It is rediculous and self defeating to effectively prevent new players from joining and learning the MP game. TW need to remove the incentive for players to abuse the kick system or ban the players who abuse it.
Just wrong. TW needs not remove votekick from the game. They need to add and improve on it. Custom servers and a separation between ranked and casual is needed. You are not fixing the issue by just removing votekick. IG had mods. Votekick is not just for kicking bad players, it is a must to balance trollers and hackers hence why it is ever introduced into MP games. Also warband had mods who kicked and banned ppl at will :grin: :grin: so dont even dare going there

New players have a place in the game, so they do. Learn from already successful mp games : CS:GO having ranks removes the skill missmatch, having casual helps new players both play, enjoy and also learn without getting stomped or kicked.
 
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DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
Warband didnt have a limit of 6 players per team. So to have everyone vote to kick a player there would have to be a reason that a considerable number of people agreed with.
Kicking because you dont think another player is good enough to play with you is abusive and in IG Battlegrounds (the best run Warband server) would have got you banned from the server until you posted that you refrain abusing the system in future.

It is rediculous and self defeating to effectively prevent new players from joining and learning the MP game. TW need to remove the incentive for players to abuse the kick system or ban the players who abuse it.
You're the biggest hypocrit I know. Ranked matchmaking is going to be added eventually and until then all the players are playing casual skirmish but kicking is a feature for a reason.Whether your teammate is afk,trolling,not teaming with the team or just useless kicking will remain in the game. I rarely kick people but sometimes it's needed. I'd suggest maybe you start playing the game and work on your skills rather than carry on being a forum ninja. You haven't played in months so I don't think you should even have an opinion.
 
I'd suggest maybe you start playing the game and work on your skills rather than carry on being a forum ninja. You haven't played in months so I don't think you should even have an opinion.
Brutal ,Savage :grin: I dont see how that is constructive at all but still damn
 

Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Averages should make inexperienced players fit more easily into teams when the servers has 50 slots as well as the ability to move to another team to self-balance after a round. Compare that to 12 server slots servers with the ability to stack.

There are multiple tools to lessen the causes of high amount of kick polls

Because, let us face it, without TW doing anything, this discussion will lead to nothing
 
Inappropriate behavior
You're the biggest hypocrit I know. Ranked matchmaking is going to be added eventually and until then all the players are playing casual skirmish but kicking is a feature for a reason.Whether your teammate is afk,trolling,not teaming with the team or just useless kicking will remain in the game. I rarely kick people but sometimes it's needed. I'd suggest maybe you start playing the game and work on your skills rather than carry on being a forum ninja. You haven't played in months so I don't think you should even have an opinion.

You -snip- spending all your lifetime into this game and you still suck beeing in the top 75 people in a dead game. Grow the **** up, claiming someone shouldn't have an opinion, because she didn't play for a couple months, -snip- !
 
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Averages should make inexperienced players fit more easily into teams when the servers has 50 slots as well as the ability to move to another team to self-balance after a round. Compare that to 12 server slots servers with the ability to stack.

There are multiple tools to lessen the causes of high amount of kick polls

Because, let us face it, without TW doing anything, this discussion will lead to nothing
Amen!

You -snip- spending all your lifetime into this game and you still suck beeing in the top 75 people in a dead game. Grow the **** up, claiming someone shouldn't have an opinion, because she didn't play for a couple months, -snip- !
Rude and completely irrelevant as well. Funny how you claim to be any better than death or anybody else typing such nonsense. I like how you and gibby keep referring to skill and divisions and what not, funny how both of you are irrelevant and substandard at best.

Death is quite literally one of the best inf out there and will trash u and gibby both. So please dont speak of skill at all not only because it is irrelevant to the discussion but because you are too :grin: :grin:

Funny indeed how ppl ego trip about skill and morals (white knights all of em) when they themselves are made out of the same fabric as the rest... Hypocrisy at its finest ladies and gents. What is truly disgusting here is how people are so desperately unaware of themselves.

-the pot calling the kettle black
 
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Rude and completely irrelevant as well. Funny how you claim to be any better than death or anybody else typing such nonsense. I like how you and gibby keep referring to skill and divisions and what not, funny how both of you are irrelevant and substandard at best.

Death is quite literally one of the best inf out there and will trash u and gibby both. So please dont speak of skill at all not only because it is irrelevant to the discussion but because you are too :grin: :grin:

Funny indeed how ppl ego trip about skill and morals (white knights all of em) when they themselves are made out of the same fabric as the rest... Hypocrisy at its finest ladies and gents.

-the pot calling the kettle black

Rude and completely irrelevant as well. Funny how you claim to be any better than death or anybody else typing such nonsense. I like how you and gibby keep referring to skill and divisions and what not, funny how both of you are irrelevant and substandard at best.

Death is quite literally one of the best inf out there and will trash u and gibby both. So please dont speak of skill at all not only because it is irrelevant to the discussion but because you are too :grin: :grin:

Funny indeed how ppl ego trip about skill and morals (white knights all of em) when they themselves are made out of the same fabric as the rest... Hypocrisy at its finest ladies and gents.

-the pot calling the kettle black
The only people referring to skill are you because for you, it's a reason to degrade other people. The only argument you use to degrade me and Gibby is mentioned skill, so don't be a hypocrit.
All your arguments and your actions are based on the fact that you believe you're good. You're better than me but better doesn't equal good.

This is not about skill anymore tho. It's about personal attacks and defending it is just disgusting

The White Knight calling out disgusting behaviour
 

DeathBG

Sergeant at Arms
You -snip- spending all your lifetime into this game and you still suck beeing in the top 75 people in a dead game. Grow the **** up, claiming someone shouldn't have an opinion, because she didn't play for a couple months, -snip- !
If it's a dead game why you bother crying on forums. I haven't seen you playing the game in a long time as well. Most of you barely play the game and only cry on the forums and compare the game to warband. What have you done for the game to make it better? I am giving feedback to developers and reporting bugs and giving them suggestions while you cry about vote kicking on forums. You're being useless at least Aeronwen is hosting BEAST and contributing towards the community to keep it active.
 
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Gibby Jr

Marquis
Gibby would leave a game upon seeing the enemy stack so hed rather not get rekt, he is irrelevant and so is what he says. Kicking ppl has nothing to do with ego but simple enjoyment.
What on earth are you on about? In your replies to Pace you were making this stuff up as well. There are no opportunities for me to leave a pub game cuz I don't play them and hardly have at all, even when I was actively playing in RM. I have like 110 games played and 80% of them are clan matches; the pub games I have played were always with either irl friends or other clan members and I have never quit a game mid-way. I have always criticised that behaviour as childish, because once queued in you should stay for the benefit of your team even if you are having a bad time. That's the mentality you should have with the kick system as well. Why does your "simple enjoyment" trump the enjoyment of those people you're kicking?

Trolls, AFKs and teamkillers are one thing, which is what the system is intended for, but the extra player not playing how you want them to is not a justifiable reason to kick them. Especially, and this can't be emphasised enough, in a casual mode. It's literally unranked, why do you care whatsoever if you lose? You lose out on some customisation coins? That desperate to show off your new tiara to the other 100 people playing the game? What a pathetic mindset. I understand why you do it when it's the only sense of superiority you can get because you get trashed in tournaments.

I like how you and gibby keep referring to skill and divisions and what not, funny how both of you are irrelevant and substandard at best.

Death is quite literally one of the best inf out there and will trash u and gibby both.

Funny indeed how ppl ego trip about skill and morals (white knights all of em) when they themselves are made out of the same fabric as the rest... Hypocrisy at its finest ladies and gents. What is truly disgusting here is how people are so desperately unaware of themselves.

-the pot calling the kettle black
I have no comment on Death's skill currently but when I last played he was not close to one of the best. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if you didn't see my 3v3s against DM or my matches in RM. You're a real moron if you think having an ego in any way justifies whatever faux sense of superiority you get from kicking people in public games because you don't judge them to be good enough to play with you. It's -snip- and comes across as desperate if you care that much about public unranked skirmish games.
 
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The only people referring to skill are you because for you, it's a reason to degrade other people. The only argument you use to degrade me and Gibby is mentioned skill, so don't be a hypocrit.
All your arguments and your actions are based on the fact that you believe you're good. You're better than me but better doesn't equal good.

This is not about skill anymore tho. It's about personal attacks and defending it is just disgusting

The White Knight calling out disgusting behaviour
I literally respond to you and gibby :grin: Check what you wrote mr knight! And check what gibby quoted both allude to ppl being subpar for wanting the votekick but reality is you both are too!! Thats what i called out. I literally say skill is irrelevant to the discussion but yall keep bringing it up. You trash death but he is good in the game. I just make a point that good players skill wise also want the votekick mechanic. Because the point that they are subpar and recognition deprived and what not has been made by gibby. right here:

Why is it that only sweaty mediocre players with thousand or more hours yet still in low divisions are the ones that actually want to kick new players for not being good enough lmao, you guys are bad because you are ****ing bad and bullying new players isn't gonna make you any better.
And here by you:

You -snip- spending all your lifetime into this game and you still suck beeing in the top 75 people in a dead game. Grow the **** up...
I never once said I am better or good at the game, for that is simply irrelevant to the argument. I act and write what I do purely because I am seeing some rather dumbfounding claims and people who are acting rather inadequate.
Cant handle being told ur wrong ?

Aside from the earth-grounding that you need to get, I feel like plenty of top banenrlord players need the same pill cuz they are too full of themselves.

The game is a business and as such it will make decisions that make them the most profit. From the tiniest to the most impactful decisions. The end goal is more ppl playing and buying the game and its future DLC's.

Nurturing a stable playerbase is possible look at warband/cs-go so taking inspiration from them is smart. Literally the MP system of banenrlord is somewhat based off of CS:GO. So kickpoll being part of the relevant arguments of ppl that it is thecause of a diminishing playerbase is wrong and I provide plenty of arguments why so. I also provide solutions to the currently defunct MP system.
 
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Einarcf

Master Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Nobody kicks because of loot. Come on. If you read the patch notes dates when loot was added and when vote kick was added you will discover something curious.

Edit:

For everyone sake:

Kick poll: 1.5.10 (6th July)
Loot: 1.6.2 (22nd September)

This very thread was made 5 days before loot was added.
 
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Erminas

Section Moderator
WBNW
Agreeing or disagreeing on something is fine as long as everyone keeps it civil, so please refrain from personal attacks when making your case for or against kicking agenda.

That said, thread (both past and future posts) will be under review for potential forum's rules breaking (with punishments applied where needed if deemed so by mod team), so please everyone take this as public warning to tone it down a notch.
 
What on earth are you on about? In your replies to Pace you were making this stuff up as well. There are no opportunities for me to leave a pub game cuz I don't play them and hardly have at all, even when I was actively playing in RM. I have like 110 games played and 80% of them are clan matches; the pub games I have played were always with either irl friends or other clan members and I have never quit a game mid-way. I have always criticised that behaviour as childish, because once queued in you should stay for the benefit of your team even if you are having a bad time. That's the mentality you should have with the kick system as well. Why does your "simple enjoyment" trump the enjoyment of those people you're kicking?

Trolls, AFKs and teamkillers are one thing, which is what the system is intended for, but the extra player not playing how you want them to is not a justifiable reason to kick them. Especially, and this can't be emphasised enough, in a casual mode. It's literally unranked, why do you care whatsoever if you lose? You lose out on some customisation coins? That desperate to show off your new tiara to the other 100 people playing the game? What a pathetic mindset. I understand why you do it when it's the only sense of superiority you can get because you get trashed in tournaments.


I have no comment on Death's skill currently but when I last played he was not close to one of the best. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about if you didn't see my 3v3s against DM or my matches in RM. You're a real moron if you think having an ego in any way justifies whatever faux sense of superiority you get from kicking people in public games because you don't judge them to be good enough to play with you. It's childish, pathetic and comes across as desperate if you care that much about public unranked skirmish games.
If you dont play the game now what are u on about? You played before kickpolls were a thing. Ive seen you leave games. What I said of pace is true cuz we played with him during the early beta. I dont know you as well but I have seen you in game. You played with friends and in stacks very well so not with randoms? Also the game is much changed from what it used to be, you might have been good then. Playing now I bet would affect ur performance, hence not up to what it once was hence why death would beat u.

Why does your "simple enjoyment" trump the enjoyment of those people you're kicking?
They dont enjoy getting rekt either. Save to say its a very ethical question you are posing but the benefit of 5 trumps that of 1. So the team that they let down collectively makes the decision to kick that one. One person cant kick alone.

It's literally unranked, why do you care whatsoever if you lose? You lose out on some customisation coins? That desperate to show off your new tiara to the other 100 people playing the game? What a pathetic mindset. I understand why you do it when it's the only sense of superiority you can get because you get trashed in tournaments.

We rack pretty well on tournaments at the top of div B. Anyway I get no sense of superiority nor any satisfaciton from kicking ppl, I dont see how u are coming to that point. I dont even spend my coins I still have the full 17k. When I play a game in my free time I want to enjoy a fair match up so does everyone. When anyone plays a sport they get a fair matchup be it weight, div, or whatever.

In my mind kicking a random person that contributes nothing to the team is justified. I will not have my joy ruined by the inadequate mm. Facing stacks such as the ones you used to play in is fun for the ppl in the stack cuz they stomp and win. Hence why u never had to kick anybody, good for u then isnt it, but if u play with randoms or another teammate u cant so easily stomp other stacks such as urs so u and ur team collectively agree to kick the weakest link, it takes more than one person to kick sb. You yourself might never kick sb but u dont even play and if u do u already abused sth else ppl compain of : stacks :.

It's childish, pathetic and comes across as desperate if you care that much about public unranked skirmish games.
I care about my enjoyment. It is no mystery you no longer play and no mystery why you only played with a stack. Would you enjoy getting rekt by stacks when you solo que? Ofc not so I fail to see wt is ur point there

I enjoy the game and see no reason why others shouldnt too! I have made suggestions that would eliminate the kick abuse issue, I even provided reasons as to why people use the kick mechanic so much. I still fail to see why people have to use the combined sense of:
'' Oh your just bad in the game and such and have failed sense of superiority and no right to kick other pp because that is pathetic and I am not but you are a bad person for doing itl ''
as an argument. Clearly it is an ingame mechanic and is being used. The devs decided for it to be there and thats that. You claim it ruins affected ppls fun and ability to play the game, so it does!! But the fix to that is simple and I literally suggested it above.

You cannot police an entire playerbase and call each and every person who partook in a votekick bad... you have no moral ground over them as much as you would like to pretend and calling me or anyone else disgusting is ur right of opinion but extremely irrelevant to the topic..
 
@James_Lindsay Trying to understand you, would be so kind and answer one more question please?

Imagine you join a game for the first time. People playing it for a couple of months now but you discovered it later.
You do the tutorials the game offers and then feeling ready to have some fun, you join a match.

You join the match and get kicked 3 seconds after entering the lobby.

Do you think that's okay?
 
@James_Lindsay Trying to understand you, would be so kind and answer one more question please?

Imagine you join a game for the first time. People playing it for a couple of months now but you discovered it later.
You do the tutorials the game offers and then feeling ready to have some fun, you join a match.

You join the match and get kicked 3 seconds after entering the lobby.

Do you think that's okay?

No as evident by:

You claim it ruins affected ppls fun and ability to play the game, so it does!!

I never once said its an ok situation. I am justifying the other side of the coin tho. I agree it cant stay like that and it is bad for all parties involved. It is also unfair to the new ppl and to top it off again i provided solutions.

I think it is very bad for the people who want to play the game and learn to not have the chance. And I think it is extremely improper the way that MP is currently being presented to us (defunct as I already called it). And I sincerely hope that it changes before final release.

But for me to understand you better do you consider every person who uses the kickpoll a sub-par player and a bad pathetic human being over which you hold moral and ethical high ground ???
 
No as evident by:



I never once said its an ok situation. I am justifying the other side of the coin tho. I agree it cant stay like that and it is bad for all parties involved. It is also unfair to the new ppl and to top it off again i provided solutions.

I think it is very bad for the people who want to play the game and learn to not have the chance. And I think it is extremely improper the way that MP is currently being presented to us (defunct as I already called it). And I sincerely hope that it changes before final release.

But for me to understand you better do you consider every person who uses the kickpoll a sub-par player and a bad pathetic human being over which you hold moral and ethical high ground ???
Thank you very much for your answer, that means that we are mostly on the same page which I enjoy seeing.

To answer your question: I don't consider every person using the kickpoll a bad human being, because there are circumstances when a kickpoll is justified. I don't see kickpolls justified when new players are kicked because of their lack of skill. And I think that the people doing this are not empathic and cannot relate to new players.

I hope that helps you understand me more and if you wish to continue this discussion, I'd invite you to our discord to have a nice discussion, be sure to bring a beer or two!
 
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