About weapons on the back...

[Iberian Wolf]

Guys, I'm surprised that it seems many of you are not aware that a scabbard on the back isn't a Hollywood invention, and therefore is, in fact,  historically accurate. There are several recorded evidences of it. That said, it does not mean it was frequently seen, as it is very difficult to unsheathe a medium sized sword, let alone the long ones, as some of you already stated. As far as I know, more popular methods for carrying large weapons were:

1)On the shoulder(many landsknecht pictures)

2)Cart/mule/horse(scabbard attached to the saddle)

3)Have a squire to carry it

Ok, so here are some evidence about scabbards on the back:

- The Parisii (a Celtic tribe from Yorkshire) reportedly had short swords that were occasionally carried on their backs and had to be drawn over the shoulder from behind the head. You might want to know the source as well - no one less than Sir Barry Cunliffe, an emeritus professor of European Archaeology from Oxford for more than 30 years. You can find more in one of his books: The Ancient Celts.

Spoiler

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ancient-Celts-Barry-Cunliffe/dp/0140254226

- There are many Japanese greatswords (odachi) depicted on "pre-Hollywood" woodblock printings. The interesting bit is, the samurais wielding it (mainly during Edo period) seem to have the scabbard held on X/Y or oblique angles :

Y - Vertical:

Spoiler

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/306878162085101641/

 

X - Horizontal :

Spoiler

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/386183736789426455/

- There's a book named "The Moors"(written by Dave Nicolle and published by the well known Oxford-based military history publisher Ospreys),and I'm adamant there are drawings and references about their equipment, including troops carrying their swords on the back(it was a sort of Arab infantrymen tradition). I actually have this book somewhere in my Reconquista paraphernalia. I will try to post it when I find it.

Stepping out of the historical scope, I think another reason for not having the scabbard on the sides is the amount of clipping it would generate. I have the impression it would be even worse.

I hope this info will be useful, feel free to discuss it. My goal is to have a consensus of sorts about it. By no means I take any of these(actually, any other source) as an ultimate answer as these subjects are always debatable, but at least they are sound evidence with references. 

 

[NPC99]

The only back carrying that breaks immersion for me is long polearms such as pikes, halberds & spears. Historically they were primary weapons, which had to be discarded when infantry resorted to secondary weapons. I fully understand that Warband & Bannerlord are games, so I have no interest in limiting player weapon options. Back mounting these weapons is a reasonable game compromise, but it can be disabled in Warband & hopefully also in Bannerlord.
For cavalry, it would be nice to also have a vertical lance carry location (styrup socket) on your horse as an alternative.

 

[Ruler of Calradia]

Good luck trying to sheathe your weapon if holster is on your back. Carrying weapons on back is one thing. Taking and then putting them back on your back while swapping for other weapons is not possible/feasable in middle of the battle.

 

[Ki-Ok Khan]

Good luck trying to sheathe your weapon if holster is on your back. Carrying weapons on back is one thing. Taking and then putting them back on your back while swapping for other weapons is not possible/feasable in middle of the battle.

Is it possible/feasible to sheath back your weapon if you are swapping for another one in the middle of the fight? Why not just drop it ?

 

[CalenLoki]

O. Another discussion about that. I'll just link the other one:
https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,372973.msg8896606.html#msg8896606
TLR
Drawing from the back 3x slower than from belt.
Sheathing 2x longer than drawing
Speed also based on weapon weight, length and type
Few extremely large/long weapons can't be sheathed at all
Ability to change weapons quickly by dropping current one
Ability to hold (but not use) 2h weapon in left hand while using 1h weapon
Saddle slot for lances

 

[lolbash]

Good luck trying to sheathe your weapon if holster is on your back. Carrying weapons on back is one thing. Taking and then putting them back on your back while swapping for other weapons is not possible/feasable in middle of the battle.

Is it possible/feasible to sheath back your weapon if you are swapping for another one in the middle of the fight? Why not just drop it ?

Because this feature would get tiresome very quickly in Bannerlord.

 

[supersayen121]

Good luck trying to sheathe your weapon if holster is on your back. Carrying weapons on back is one thing. Taking and then putting them back on your back while swapping for other weapons is not possible/feasable in middle of the battle.

Dude, if you don't like the fact that you can swap weapons at will then just drop you're long sword or you're pole arm.

 

[Ruler of Calradia]

Good luck trying to sheathe your weapon if holster is on your back. Carrying weapons on back is one thing. Taking and then putting them back on your back while swapping for other weapons is not possible/feasable in middle of the battle.

Dude, if you don't like the fact that you can swap weapons at will then just drop you're long sword or you're pole arm.

I don't want to be forced to role play like that though.

I understand game is game. So i think you could just hold your spear with your shield hand while drawing sword with your free hand. Just a small animation change and it would make game much more realistic and immersive without affecting gameplay. Win-win

 

[DanAngleland]

I wouldn't call that win-win; having a spear move around with the shield hand would look daft in my opinion (when the shield hand moves during attacks and movement).

 

[Dest45]

The sheath you take into battle doesnt need to be the sheath you normally store the sword in.

 

[Ruler of Calradia]

It looks cool. Can't we have a tiny little bit of fantasy in the game, such as two handed swords on the back. Two handed swords weren't generally much popular anyway afaik.

I remember one game, Warhammer Online, where your character carried two handed swords on the shoulder and it was corny af. Does the game really have to be that historically accurate? I mean there weren't any Calradian Empire, Khuzaits or Sturgians in the history either.

Mount & Blade has never been or tried to be historically accurate, it just tries to be realistic. Different things. Carrying 2 handed swords on the back was historically done, but when you went to battlefield it was treated like a polearm, aka you had to either hold it with your off hand or drop it if you want to switch to another weapon. You could not re-sheath it in real life.

And no there is no need to simulate perfect realism. Mount & Blade was very unrealistic in many aspects, weapons were just disappearing when you switched away from them and then you could pull massive polearm from your arse. It is a video game.

Personally i would like to see Mount & Blade go towards more realism. Mods have easier time making something unrealistic than they have making something realistic. As long as gameplay does not suffer, Mount & Blade should go towards realism.

And btw, i think it would be awesome to have fantasy expansion. But even in fantasy there is unrealistic fantasy and realistic fantasy. In Lord of the Rings styled more realistic fantasy you would treat 2 handed swords like polearms, not like sidearms like swords are.

And 2 handed weapons were quite popular when ever opponets had pike formations.

 

[Ruler of Calradia]

One more thing: in real life spears were go to weapon, but in Mount & Blade you should never use them in close combat. So i think that has big impact on this issue. If you need to swap to sword when you find yourself in close combat like you had to in games before Bannerlord, then you should be able to switch weapons like you did in mount & blade games before bannerlord. But if spears could be used in close combat as well like in real life, then weapon switching should be more realistic as well, and polearms should be treated like actual polearms.

 

[Innocent Flower]

I think it'd be fun if lances escaped/broke when couched (or pikes escaped when someone flew into them) and afterwards you'd have to ride to a pile or team-work to get a spare.

It'd sorta stop the -me and my cataphract friends take on an army 20 times our size with heavy armour and infinite spear use- Plus there'd be some tactical area denial there. Seize control of the spear piles to stop the lancers from replenishing.

 

[Ruler of Calradia]

I think it'd be fun if lances escaped/broke when couched (or pikes escaped when someone flew into them) and afterwards you'd have to ride to a pile or team-work to get a spare.

It'd sorta stop the -me and my cataphract friends take on an army 20 times our size with heavy armour and infinite spear use- Plus there'd be some tactical area denial there. Seize control of the spear piles to stop the lancers from replenishing.

That would be really cool. And in same way you could replenish ammunition.

 

[FBohler]

Zelda BotW have already proven that losing weapons during a fight may be an unpleasant game mechanic. Yes it's way more realistic to drop polearms rather than swapping them, and yes it's more realistic to break lances and spears after a high-damage strike, but those mechanics would be frustrating rather than rewarding.

I'm totally comfortable with TW's design choices regarding realism/fun trade-off. They can just balance gameplay to prevent OP unrealistic infinite charging lances for instance.
The game looks both believable and fun enough in its current state IMO.

Those who aren't okay with some unrealistic features, feel free to mod the game to a hardcore ultra-realistic version.

 

[jackalj]

The Japanese examples you posted, the Y example shows the sword is tied to the back with some cloth that can move so yes that could have been possible because that way you can also move the scabbard. The other example might just be a depiction of a weapon carried on the hip, so a ‘normal’ position.
Weapons on your back, long weapons, are very hard to draw quickly. Shorter weapons can be drawn quite fast because of the reach of your arm. Now if you can move the scabbard down the drawing of a sword can be possible decently fast.
But arent the two handed katana’s quite long? As in very long? I doubt moving the scabbard down would help. (I forgot the name)

In mount and blade games I don’t mind weapons on the back of my character, even long polearms I don’t mind but it does look weird, it is still a game and not a historically accurate one.

 

[Yaga]

First, there are no Japanese in the game.

Secondly, perhaps the Japanese simply carried their weapons on their backs like a backpack, while preparing for battle, they removed it from the back, hung it on the belt, or carried it in their hands. I do not know exactly about the Japanese, but it's possible that it was? Are there specialists in medieval Japan?

The third - the cold steel reached the 20th century and was used by the cavalry even in the Second World War, but it was not placed on the back - why so? Yes because it is not practical.

 

[thefinn]

Swords I can understand, but giant axes, staves and polearms (while using a bow) is kinda silly.

 

[Ironic]

I like the idea of weapons on the back/bigger weapons taking longer to draw and sheath. It could be seen as kinda like part of the "encumbrance system". Speaking of sheathing makes me think you should have to take that action/time before drawing the next weapon, alternatively you could just drop the weapon to equip your sidearm faster. The more I think about this the more I like. I think of it as balancing and diversifying fighting styles. Every weapon would have to have its own drawing&sheathing speed.

 

[FBohler]

First, there are no Japanese in the game.

You're fully aware that Calradia is 100% fictional, aren't you?

There is no real faction in Bannerlord. It's a fictional world that may or may not use real world references. TW decides what's historically accurate in Calradia.
They may decide to introduce katanas as a Vlandian weapon, just because, uh, it's their game, not ours.