About updates and mods and blablabla

[Blacke]

So...TalesWorlds, a moderator, even a community manager, any reaction ?

If you didn't notice, this thread looks like a customer complaint with few arguments I believe to be legits.

Always glad to have public close-looped debates here with others customers/players who, like me, have a little idea what you guys plan to do for the following months, about the lack of features and the fact you seem to rely too much on mods, with all the stability problems this can create and despite the game full release.

But please let's cut those endless speculations for good, I'm sure we could use some official insights from you in this very thread.

Some people bought your game and supported your work since early access, I'm one of them and also all ears.

Please, shoot.

 

[Philozoraptor]

Looks like devs are trading "fun for players" for a "feast for modders". A shame.

HAHAHA.

No, majority of devs in TW are literally interns (cheap university labour) to save money and left hand have no idea what the right hand does - hence broken updated, random updated of older versions of the game that break mods that used to work. On top of it they clearly have no vision of where they want to go with the game, they are just adding in half baked poorly integrated features insipered by Crusader Kings etc, just for the sake of adding them. Also in case of TW upper managment (CEO specifically) to my knowledge needs to approve everything, so there is a huge bottleneck of ideas even if some devs have vision etc.

So incompetence mixed with no vision.

Edit: snipped discriminatory parts. Please refrain from posting those.

 

[Spectacular Knight]

This thread is just ridiculous.

Modders don't look for broken games just so that they can spend their free time "fixing things", they want games with excellent core mechanics that can be expanded upon and serve as a base for creativity.

Taleworlds isn't deliberately making a broken game in order to attract modders, they're just can't do any better. Modders are trying to salvage the game because the basic gameplay of riding around on a horse and killing things is so compelling.

 

[Blacke]

This thread is just ridiculous.

Modders don't look for broken games just so that they can spend their free time "fixing things", they want games with excellent core mechanics that can be expanded upon and serve as a base for creativity.

Taleworlds isn't deliberately making a broken game in order to attract modders, they're just can't do any better. Modders are trying to salvage the game because the basic gameplay of riding around on a horse and killing things is so compelling.

Yes indeed, so what ?

I remember saying that many modders create their own mods because they feel the game misses a lot features and has a serious lack of depth.

I also remember listing some examples of these mods, with links, as well as quoting some of the modders involved and the reasons why they made their mods (usually because the game is dull, AI stupid, etc).

This doesn't mean I believe the only purpose of modders is to "spend their free time fixing things" on "broken games" as if it was some kind of sick hobby (if this means anything).

As you said, for modders a game is good base for creativity, no doubt about that, 100% agreed.

But when, in April 2023, your workshops are still stuck at "level 1", the diplomacy features are still almost non-existent, your children keep looking like perfect clones and SO MANY others things...well some people get frustrated so they decide to bring new features and eventually "fix" the vanilla version.

But don't make me wrong, "fixing" things can also involve creativity and some modders are actually pretty good at this.

But I believe frustration is the number one motivation for modders.

Even the people behind Calradia At War, a very creative mod, are doing this because they wanted to bring something "more immersive" to the base game (be my guest and check the mod's page).

If you really want pure creativity, without any new feature added and fixed things, you can simply create new clans, new troops, new armors, even neko-cat ears if you are into kawaï stuff or whatever else.

"They're just can't do any better".

How do you know "they can't do any better" ? Do you work with them ? Someone told you maybe ? You saw something, somewhere, on Reddit or Youtube ? Are you talking on TW behalf or it's just your thoughts after all ? Wait..do you mean nobody is creative enough at TW ? Or maybe is just a matter of money (so it's poor planning then) ? Please enlight us.

 

[julijs]

"They're just can't do any better".

How do you know "they can't do any better" ? Do you work with them ? Someone told you maybe ? You saw something, somewhere, on Reddit or Youtube ? Are you talking on TW behalf or it's just your thoughts after all ? Wait..do you mean nobody is creative enough at TW ? Or maybe is just a matter of money (so it's poor planning then) ? Please enlight us.

the entirety of early access to post release shows that they haven't done any better, even bear minimum. as for why they can't do any better is up for any assumptions made here, consider yourself enlightened now.

 

[Blacke]

the entirety of early access to post release shows that they haven't done any better, even bear minimum. as for why they can't do any better is up for any assumptions made here, consider yourself enlightened now.

Many thanks, but to be fair it's hard to feel enlightened when I already know this story...

I bought the game before Christmas 2021, played a solid month and then stopped for a whole year.

When I came back in feb 2023 I was like "so it's officially the full release ? Early Access was already so good, hell yeah !".

Well...I just can't believe how heavily modded my game is now to keep me hooked.

 

[Starlord]

I feel like the price of the game is justified. In this new generation of inflated game prices, it's nice to see a reasonably priced game. That said, mods add a ton of content that should have been present on final release.

Give this game as much time as Warband had to stew and I'm sure it will be a different game in another 4-5 yrs post release along with any DLC taleworlds will add. Everyone will say it shouldn't take so much time but this was kind of the same with Warband, took forever before taleworlds was finished with balancing and features, and then modders unleashed on it.

Can't justify the small updates which change nothing but break game for mods (although most mods that work with v1.1.x work with the newer updates for me but it can be tricky).

 

[Zoonanay]

I feel like the price of the game is justified. In this new generation of inflated game prices, it's nice to see a reasonably priced game. That said, mods add a ton of content that should have been present on final release.

Give this game as much time as Warband had to stew and I'm sure it will be a different game in another 4-5 yrs post release along with any DLC taleworlds will add. Everyone will say it shouldn't take so much time but this was kind of the same with Warband, took forever before taleworlds was finished with balancing and features, and then modders unleashed on it.

Can't justify the small updates which change nothing but break game for mods (although most mods that work with v1.1.x work with the newer updates for me but it can be tricky).

Don't think you can really compare Warband and Bannerlord's development anymore.

Warband came out 2 years after its predecessor, Bannerlord came out 12 years later.

Warband was already producing its DLC Napoleonic Wars 6 months after official release, Bannerlord still lacks features promised in 2018 with a plethora of game-breaking glitches to choose from.

I know what you mean about Warband, particularly SP, being buggy at release but most of those issues were fixed within months not years.

I would not expect Bannerlord to have substantial changes, without experienced developers or even simply people familiar with how the codebase was developed the project is simply ****ed. You can throw 100 interns at a brick wall, all you're gonna get is graduate jam.

 

[Blacke]

I feel like the price of the game is justified. In this new generation of inflated game prices, it's nice to see a reasonably priced game. That said, mods add a ton of content that should have been present on final release.

Give this game as much time as Warband had to stew and I'm sure it will be a different game in another 4-5 yrs post release along with any DLC taleworlds will add. Everyone will say it shouldn't take so much time but this was kind of the same with Warband, took forever before taleworlds was finished with balancing and features, and then modders unleashed on it.

Can't justify the small updates which change nothing but break game for mods (although most mods that work with v1.1.x work with the newer updates for me but it can be tricky).

Don't have anything to say about the price I paid, to me the early access was very promising and deserved my support.

And for what it's worth I rarely spend any gold on early access games, since many turns to be too bugged or disappointing at some point.

But this isn't EA anymore for Bannerlord. The game has been fully released and, once again, too little has been added to game since I first experienced it.

At least this is my (strong) feeling.

And according to many threads on this very forum, as well as on Reddit, various Nexus Mods and Steam comments walls it seems I'm not the only one.

I'd glady consider "giving this as much time as Warband" if the game wasn't actually in a full release state.

$49.99 is a reasonable price for a game indeed.

The thing is, reasonable turns into concerning when a full released game (dare I say a final product ?) lacks basics/obvious features, becomes dull and boring at mid-game, when all you get are mostly silents updates with barely new stuffs (and an endless list of fixes...that will also seems to be fixed again in the next updates) and most importantly: no communication from the studio about what to expect to properly answers to these issues.

As far as I know, I have no idea if TW is aware of all our concerns.

Are they reading this forum ? Do they know many modders brought importants features to their game ? Are they inspired by some of those mods or even similar games like Crusader Kings 3 for any future new contents ? Do they actually need more time to provide us new features and complete the existing ones (workshops level, diplomacy, etc) ? Will DLC be involved for those hypothetics new features ? What are they priorities ? Are they currently struggling with the game for some reasons ?

I believe these are legits questions that needs to be anwsered.

Sadly I have little doubt the only hints we can expect anytime soon are another lists of obscure fixes, maybe a couple of new armors, why not a cool new cut scene or some over-situational feature (like the Sally Out Battle...) that won't really add much depth to the game.

Did I paid $49.99 to be constantly in the dark, frustated with a game and stuck with vain assumptions threw all over Internet ? Nope.

Considering that once players (I'd rather say customers) bought the game they'll be ok to have an unfinished game for years, with little communication around, just because their previous release (Warband ?) has been set around that kind of weird pace...well sorry but I think it's dishonest and disrespectful.

And being an indie-game studio isn't an excuse. It's no secret game developpment can be tedious, costly and time consuming. But no one forced them to make an ambitious game on their own and sell it. People paid and showed support, now it's time to deliver your game, rather than a deluxe demo.