about the shield-skill

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slavetrader

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now when you are an expert in shields you know how to make them last longer, probably 'cos you know how exactly the blow has to be taken, you know the weak and the strong spots of the shield, and how to maintain them afterwards. so wouldn't it be highly logical (Praise The Spock) that you would also know something about the enemies shield. you would know where to hit, so to say. and therefor youd be able to smash the enemies shield faster with a higher shield skill.

in short = high shield skill = being able to preserve your shield AND destroy the enemies faster

ideas?
 
Semi-ontopic.
Wouldn't it make sense with Armour too?
Maybe a Shield related "Armour skill".

Being trained and conditioned to use armour would benefit the user, and maybe allow him/her to strike weak links/joint or wear it out faster.

A interesting feature would also be "destroyable" armour; striking your enemies and see them loose bits from their attire would be nice.
Dunno how easy/hard it is to encode, but it would make sense since shields do wear, while armours do not.

Game features skirmish level combat; it could be programmed as to reduce particles as objects clutter the screen, to keep frame rate steady.

:smile:
 
n short = high shield skill = being able to preserve your shield AND destroy the enemies faster

AWESOME idea.
I'd be willing to invest points in that even with a polearm/archer character.
 
i never use shields because my weapon is heavy bardiche so my shield skill is 0 :grin:
 
hi all,

great idea i think this one has real merit.!!! i can see it coming into play mostly in the uper lvl game but a great addition at any lvl. :grin:
 
I have a reinfoced steel shield with l 863 HP so I never have a problem with the shield breaking so the shield skill dosen't mean much to me.
 
so wouldn't it be highly logical (Praise The Spock) that you would also know something about the enemies shield. you would know where to hit, so to say. and therefor youd be able to smash the enemies shield faster with a higher shield skill.

Not necessarily :smile:

First, not all shields are made the same. You are an expert with your shield: you hold it, you've examined it, you understand its balance points. You don't have the same privilege with everyone else's shield, though if you got a chance to pick it up and look at it for 15 seconds, you'll get to know it pretty quickly.

Second, if your opponent is skilled with his shield, he's going to be able to counter your shield-busting moves. Put simply, it's a two-way street :cool:

This isn't to say it's a terrible idea, far from it. To be well done, the shield damage system would need to be entirely revamped, since a flat bonus to attacks would poorly reflect the intersection of your skill as a fighter and your opponent's skill as a defender. Personally I think that effort in programming would be better invested either in the wearing-down of weapons or a parry-breaking mechanism. The latter of which, incidentally, could then be applied to countering shields :wink:
 
powerg8 said:
I have a reinfoced steel shield with l 863 HP so I never have a problem with the shield breaking so the shield skill dosen't mean much to me.

I use a heraldic shield of some kind, since I think it looks cooler. It has about half that many hitpoints, and I *never* get even close to having it break. It's kind of boring, actually... :smile: I haven't played around with it a lot, but it seems the shield skill points really doesn't matter much. Which is a pity.

So, what I'm thinking is that it could be cool if there was a chance that a really powerful blow would make you drop your shield. If that happened it would fall to the ground X feet in a random direction from the place you lost it, and you'd have to ride back and use it, like you use the Battle Chest of Holding, in order to retrieve it. Obviously it would be much easier to retrieve on foot, which I don't think would be a problem. Footsoldiers deserve some advantages.. The point here is that the risk of dropping your shield would be calculated based on the force of the blow and your shield skill. Higher shield skill would translate to the character being able to soak up heavier blows without losing control of the shield. If someone hit a shield I was holding in real life with a couched lance, I imagine the shield would be sent flying (and I most likely with it.. :smile:). I would like to see action like this in M&B.

If you want to encourage players who don't use shields to take the skill, you could make the risk of losing the shield based not just on the defender's shield skill level, but his skill compared to that of the attacker. This would mean that a player with decent but unspectacular shield training could manage to thrust aside a lowly forest bandit's shield, but completely fail to do so against a dark knight, and indeed even find himself losing control of his shield under the knight's mighty and skillfully placed blows.

Essentially this would mean someone with a high shield skill level would be good at the following:
a) Minimizing damage to their shield when struck by an enemy
b) Maintaining control of their shield when struck by an enemy
c) Maximizing damage to an enemy's shield when striking it
b) Striking at an enemy's shield in such a way as to make them lost control of it

What are your thoughts on this? Would it be fun, annoying, unneccesarily complex..? :smile:

Aethelwyn said:
First, not all shields are made the same. You are an expert with your shield: you hold it, you've examined it, you understand its balance points. You don't have the same privilege with everyone else's shield, though if you got a chance to pick it up and look at it for 15 seconds, you'll get to know it pretty quickly.
That's a good point, but on the other hand, that same argument could be applied to swords, horses or pieces of armor, and yet that doesn't stop one from talking about people having a general understanding of how various aspects of combat work, and quickly adapting to exploit weaknesses in the enemy's armaments and tactics. Specifically, even if no round wooden shields (to pick a design at random) are completely alike, I imagine the vast majority are based on a similar basic design to such a degree that similar tactics would work well against most or all of them. The behaviour of the soldier behind the shield is probably of much greater importance, however, which is exactly why it would be nice to have the algorithm compare the shield skills of the two combatants. :smile:

EDIT: Forgot to add - I realize it might not be very realistic (exactly how unrealistic, I don't know) that you'd commonly be able to knock people's shields out of their hands. It sure would be cool and fun, though. :smile:
 
essentially this would mean someone with a high shield skill level would be good at the following:
a) Minimizing damage to their shield when struck by an enemy
b) Maintaining control of their shield when struck by an enemy
c) Maximizing damage to an enemy's shield when striking it
b) Striking at an enemy's shield in such a way as to make them lost control of it

i like this idea
 
MMad said:
So, what I'm thinking is that it could be cool if there was a chance that a really powerful blow would make you drop your shield. If that happened it would fall to the ground X feet in a random direction from the place you lost it, and you'd have to ride back and use it, like you use the Battle Chest of Holding, in order to retrieve it. ...

For targets proper this might work, but the shields as depicted in M&B are not targets (and I'm inexplicably blanking on the term's antonym). They appear to be designed to be held with the arm passing through one or more loops on the back of the shield, and gripped via yet another loop. I admittedly have not used either kind of shield in combat (mock or otherwise) but having it disloged seems improbable from the few times I've actually held one. (I suppose extreme fatigue and carelessness could lead it to being dropped, however.)

Aethelwyn said:
First, not all shields are made the same. You are an expert with your shield: you hold it, you've examined it, you understand its balance points. You don't have the same privilege with everyone else's shield, though if you got a chance to pick it up and look at it for 15 seconds, you'll get to know it pretty quickly.
That's a good point, but on the other hand, that same argument could be applied to swords, horses or pieces of armor, and yet that doesn't stop one from talking about people having a general understanding of how various aspects of combat work, and quickly adapting to exploit weaknesses in the enemy's armaments and tactics. ...

Note my subsequent comments though. :cool:
 
First first first, I think this is a good idea because currently the skills are balanced in such a way that some are not worth raising past 2 and others are almost always raised to 8, coming out to most high-level characters having just about the same skill layout.

This gives more motivation to invest in the shield skill and therefore create more variaties of characters- if a shield-using character has to put points into both power strike and shield, then he probably won't have enough points to become, say, an archer as well (of course, upping the shield skill alone won't do it, but there are plenty of other skills that need balancing.

Now,

Aethelwyn said:
Not necessarily :smile:

First, not all shields are made the same. You are an expert with your shield: you hold it, you've examined it, you understand its balance points. You don't have the same privilege with everyone else's shield, though if you got a chance to pick it up and look at it for 15 seconds, you'll get to know it pretty quickly.

Second, if your opponent is skilled with his shield, he's going to be able to counter your shield-busting moves. Put simply, it's a two-way street :cool:

This isn't to say it's a terrible idea, far from it. To be well done, the shield damage system would need to be entirely revamped, since a flat bonus to attacks would poorly reflect the intersection of your skill as a fighter and your opponent's skill as a defender. Personally I think that effort in programming would be better invested either in the wearing-down of weapons or a parry-breaking mechanism. The latter of which, incidentally, could then be applied to countering shields :wink:

1) Realistically this is true. However, in Mount&Blade, it's simply assumed that mastery of shields applies to all shields, just as the one-hand weapons skill applies to all one-hand weapons. I don't see why the same can't just be assumed for the other way, that mastery of the shield skill assumes you know the weaknesses for all shields.

Of course, this could be changed so that you have to put points into individual types of weapons instead and would therefore have even more varied characters, but that's probably best left for some future argument.

2) Good, I hate having so many advantages over the AI.

3) True. I wish we had more devs :sad:
 
Aethelwyn said:
I admittedly have not used either kind of shield in combat (mock or otherwise) but having it disloged seems improbable from the few times I've actually held one

Yes, this is more or less my belief as well. :wink: However, it seems to me a system allowing a character to be disshielded (:smile:)) would work well with the existing combat engine and skillset, while not being outrageously unrealistic, and would add additional flavour and depth to combat and character development.

I assume many (most?) people will disagree, and I would in any case be very surprised if any idea put forth on the forums like this found its way into the end product - but I do like the basic idea I attempted to convey in my previous post. :smile:

Aethelwyn said:
Note my subsequent comments though. :cool:

I did, gave thought to them, and let them influence what I wrote. :smile: I chose only to to directly respond to the one part I disagreed with, though.
 
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