About the recent archer spam i'm seeing in this game

[flashn00b]

For I guess the past year and a half, i've been on and off of playing Bannerlord's multiplayer with the main turn-off for me being players who decide to just pick archer and nothing else. Of course, most players know that won't work in Captain Mode but everywhere else, all-archer teams can often dominate anything resembling a reasonably balanced team composition, hence why I've said in other threads that Bannerlord's a shooter with a medieval skin.

Considering how long the archer spam thing has been going, I'm about ready to believe that archers being overpowered is an intentional design decision on TaleWorlds' part, though I'm pretty sure that people who are looking to play the multiplayer modes of Bannerlord are coming in looking for a medieval combat experience. Since they won't find any of that in most matches in Bannerlord, perhaps it's not a coincidence that I have an easier time finding online games in Chivalry 2, a competing product that's exclusive to a storefront/game client that is universally loathed. Suppose it's in TaleWorlds' best interest to rethink the vision that they have for Bannerlord multiplayer so as to try and win back whatever playerbase they had before Chivalry 2's appearance because I actually enjoy Bannerlord's combat system a lot more than I do Chivalry's but the fact that archers have been allowed to remain as overpowered as they are render the game unplayable. Sure, I guess there's also Warband where players tend to have more honor than BL players but it's apparent to me that NeoGK's TDM server is slowly heading into a decline.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

For I guess the past year and a half, i've been on and off of playing Bannerlord's multiplayer with the main turn-off for me being players who decide to just pick archer and nothing else. Of course, most players know that won't work in Captain Mode but everywhere else, all-archer teams can often dominate anything resembling a reasonably balanced team composition, hence why I've said in other threads that Bannerlord's a shooter with a medieval skin.

Considering how long the archer spam thing has been going, I'm about ready to believe that archers being overpowered is an intentional design decision on TaleWorlds' part, though I'm pretty sure that people who are looking to play the multiplayer modes of Bannerlord are coming in looking for a medieval combat experience. Since they won't find any of that in most matches in Bannerlord, perhaps it's not a coincidence that I have an easier time finding online games in Chivalry 2, a competing product that's exclusive to a storefront/game client that is universally loathed. Suppose it's in TaleWorlds' best interest to rethink the vision that they have for Bannerlord multiplayer so as to try and win back whatever playerbase they had before Chivalry 2's appearance because I actually enjoy Bannerlord's combat system a lot more than I do Chivalry's but the fact that archers have been allowed to remain as overpowered as they are render the game unplayable. Sure, I guess there's also Warband where players tend to have more honor than BL players but it's apparent to me that NeoGK's TDM server is slowly heading into a decline.

arrows do more damage then they should to heavy armor units,

to balance this they made archer units move slower (even if they dropped all their equipment) so that they are horrible in melee combat (un-winnable in outnumbered situations)

i think this is a bad decision that punishes archers from trying to melee

i think the solution to this problem is to reduce arrow damage to heavy armor (realistic) and take away the movement penalty that archers have, they should still run slow when carrying a quiver (realistic) but should run normal speed when the quiver/bow is dropped (preventing kiting)

(also take away the movement penalties for dismounted cavalry but reduce horse hp)

hopefully one day we can go back to warband's weight system where your movement speed only depended on weight you were carrying

 

[Hans 77]

hopefully one day we can go back to warband's weight system where your movement speed only depended on weight you were carrying

Warband's movement speed was still affected by athletics skill in addition to equipment weight. In Warband multiplayer, all infantry -no matter the faction, had an athletics skill of 6. Cavalry had an athletics skill between 0 and 3 pending on the factions, archers had an athletics of 3, and crossbows an athletics skill of 4.

These movement penalties given to cav and ranged were done so for the sake of game balance, since fighting in melee on foot isn't those units' natural state. They were also given lower power strike skill and less weapon proficiency in things like 1H to make them less effective in melee.

There's really no issue with applying the same design to ranged and cav in Bannerlord.

I will say though, any cav fighting on foot pretty much have a huge "Kick Me" sign plastered on their chest -in the most literal way possible. Seriously, a dismounted cav is hilariously easy to kick slash -especially by any inf with a movement speed perk. On one hand, this is fine, being simply another aspect of the melee advantage inf should enjoy over other classes. On the other hand, it also highlights the systemic design flaws of Bannerlord combat in general, with an emphasis on gimmick workarounds over actual melee fighting.

 

[Jesus__is__Lord]

These movement penalties given to cav and ranged were done so for the sake of game balance,

given the current state of the game i do understand that this movement speed handicap is necessary to balance the huge advantage that cavalry and archers have (archers having artificially high damage arrows against heavy armor and unarmored cavalry having extremely high hp)

archers should be able to kill unarmored opponents easily, but when archers kill heavy infantry in 3 arrows i believe that isnt good

this is a video game and the designers can balance the game however they like, but when competitive communities like "beast" have specific rules that limit the number of archers and cavalry on teams that is a signal that they are unbalanced (meaning not fun for the majority of players)

unarmored cavalry are also very hard to kill, often needing multiple shots to the head to bring down

during games i see that cavalry often park behind fleeing infantry to create a physical wall preventing the infantry from running away, i would understand a heavily armored cavalry doing this but an unarmored horse shouldnt be able to function as an un killable wall


hans77
"I will say though, any cav fighting on foot pretty much have a huge "Kick Me" sign plastered on their chest -in the most literal way possible. Seriously, a dismounted cav is hilariously easy to kick slash -especially by any inf with a movement speed perk. "

On one hand, this is fine, being simply another aspect of the melee advantage inf should enjoy over other classes. On the other hand, it also highlights the systemic design flaws of Bannerlord combat in general, with an emphasis on gimmick workarounds over actual melee fighting."


in the above quote you discuss how easy it is to die by kicks as a dismounted cavalry and how this is a "gimmicky workaround over actual melee fighting"

when you talk about "actual melee fighting" i believe you mean a situation where both opponents have a chance at winning the engagement fairly (given the differentials of various armors and weapons) where your ability to block and strike effectively should be the sole reason for you to win the fight

i would argue that, unless this is a duel situation(even if it was though, like you said you can be kicked to death bc of your movement penalty), the movement speed penalty is a gimmick that guarantees your death by allowing you to be surrounded by multiple opponents

i believe bannerlord can be improved by removing these movement unbalances and focusing more on "actual melee fighting"

i do believe that cavalry and archers should have a disadvantage when engaged in dismounted melee but i believe that disadvantage should be equipment based rather then inherit movement penalties, so for example an archer would be at an disadvantage in combat against an infantry bc that infantry man chose better armor and a two handed weapon instead of choosing a bow

 

[Elderly]

An easy fix to range is to nerf missile speed accuracy and reload speed This would help make it more skill based.

 

[five bucks]

i think the solution to this problem is to reduce arrow damage to heavy armor (realistic)

+1

 

[Yukmouth++]

Personnaly it dépends on the faction. I find sturgia so boring to Play that i only Play archers with Them. Every single game has Vlandia in it and crossbows are piss easy brain dead overpowered. Vlandia literally brings guns to a sword fight.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

Damn I am getting tired of these constant balance "fixes". It feels like every time one unit class get chosen often, the telemetry tells TW that unit class needs a nerf.... At some point in the future it doesn't really matter what faction or perks u choose, the units will 100% even. After the last update we are experiencing several "Draws" in a row in TDM, and that never happened before. I predict Vlandia is getting the knife very soon.. About archers, especially khans, DONT MESS WITH EM PLZ!

 

[flashn00b]

Damn I am getting tired of these constant balance "fixes". It feels like every time one unit class get chosen often, the telemetry tells TW that unit class needs a nerf.... At some point in the future it doesn't really matter what faction or perks u choose, the units will 100% even. After the last update we are experiencing several "Draws" in a row in TDM, and that never happened before. I predict Vlandia is getting the knife very soon.. About archers, especially khans, DONT MESS WITH EM PLZ!

It's very much possible to have asymmetric multiplayer that isn't entirely one-sided. As it currently stands, an all-archer team requires a disproportionately low amount of effort to win against a team with any other team composition. IMO, i think the better idea to handle things would be to give universal infantry/skirmisher/cavalry buffs to better promote a more rounded team composition. To me, the ideal situation regarding archers vs everyone else is that they should still be a powerful counter to infantry, while Cavalry could instead have enough tools to punish bodyshotters and force them to either land consistent headshots or be a unit type that has a long spear.

The current situation with Bannerlord is that it's a 2009 tactical shooter with a medieval skin, rather than being a proper medieval combat game. Even if both teams were to have enough honor to keep archer headcounts low enough to make infantry and cavalry playable, a lot of units are either stupidly powerful or unplayably bad relative to the amount of gold required to spawn as them, though that's an issue for another thread.

As i've mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a reason why more people play Chivalry 2 despite being Epic Exclusive, and it's at the point where the only people who are still playing Bannerlord MP are the folks that absolutely refuse to give Tim Sweeney any amount of money. What will happen to Bannerlord MP when Torn Banner's game leaves Epic Exclusivity and it's still the same archer spamfest that I saw a few days ago?

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

It's very much possible to have asymmetric multiplayer that isn't entirely one-sided. As it currently stands, an all-archer team requires a disproportionately low amount of effort to win against a team with any other team composition. IMO, i think the better idea to handle things would be to give universal infantry/skirmisher/cavalry buffs to better promote a more rounded team composition. To me, the ideal situation regarding archers vs everyone else is that they should still be a powerful counter to infantry, while Cavalry could instead have enough tools to punish bodyshotters and force them to either land consistent headshots or be a unit type that has a long spear.

The current situation with Bannerlord is that it's a 2009 tactical shooter with a medieval skin, rather than being a proper medieval combat game. Even if both teams were to have enough honor to keep archer headcounts low enough to make infantry and cavalry playable, a lot of units are either stupidly powerful or unplayably bad relative to the amount of gold required to spawn as them, though that's an issue for another thread.

As i've mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a reason why more people play Chivalry 2 despite being Epic Exclusive, and it's at the point where the only people who are still playing Bannerlord MP are the folks that absolutely refuse to give Tim Sweeney any amount of money. What will happen to Bannerlord MP when Torn Banner's game leaves Epic Exclusivity and it's still the same archer spamfest that I saw a few days ago?

The idea of a tactical game, no matter that time it is suppose to be in, is that the unit classes counter each other out. Don't go all 2h vs an all archers build. Get shields and cav or get bows too, they counter archers just fine, in all modes. And being archers is not like a fps. The crosshair is more like a help, than a sure thing. You have to be super close before your arrow actually hits where you are pointing. There is a very good reason why cav is so expensive in TDM. Remember when cav was almost free and had menavlions ? That made it unplayable.

 

[SO1DIER]

Only way to fix this problem is to make Cav stronger

 

[Horked]

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/not-enough-archers-playing-skrim

 

[Horked]

i swear, 80% of all threads on this forum is just noise.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

Only way to fix this problem is to make Cav stronger

Or, you could just use tactics... Play archer if ur team needs it... Instead of demanding cav to be impossible to kill...

 

[SO1DIER]

Or, you could just use tactics... Play archer if ur team needs it... Instead of demanding cav to be impossible to kill...

Cav is the answer here

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

Cav is the answer here

Cav need more nerfs, much much much more

 

[Goyyyio]

+1 this is a shooter with medieval skin. Boring, going back to blocking arrows in mordhau

 

[flashn00b]

Or, you could just use tactics... Play archer if ur team needs it... Instead of demanding cav to be impossible to kill...

So you're telling me that "play archers and nothing else" is the way i'm supposed to play Bannerlord outside Captain mode?

The usefulness of shields when trying to defend against archers is questionable at best and if you pick Cavalry, you'll at best be a momentary distraction until your horse gets peppered to death before the archers shoot your incapacitated body.

Unless TaleWorlds decides to encourage team compositions to have a healthy mix of infantry/cav/archers rather than all archers all the time, there are other games for medieval combat that actually have medieval combat.

 

[Hax.]

The problem could be easily solved by finally fixing friendly fire and punishing those medieval stormtroopers who shoot wildly into every battle. It's a mess to be surrounded 1vs4 and still get shot.

 

[Olaf The Cruel]

So you're telling me that "play archers and nothing else" is the way i'm supposed to play Bannerlord outside Captain mode?

The usefulness of shields when trying to defend against archers is questionable at best and if you pick Cavalry, you'll at best be a momentary distraction until your horse gets peppered to death before the archers shoot your incapacitated body.

Unless TaleWorlds decides to encourage team compositions to have a healthy mix of infantry/cav/archers rather than all archers all the time, there are other games for medieval combat that actually have medieval combat.

I said "use tactics".. It's right up there.. You blind? Khusait is all archers. And they don't win every time. Yes, vs an enemy that don't have shields, like all savages, then they will destroy you, ofc they will... The solution is NOT going shieldless into that battle, use tactics..