About terrorism at the gates of Europe, eyes wide and closed.

[Cookie Eating Huskarl]

See, now you are doing it right. Learning. Nothing about pride there.

 

[Legolan]

See, now you are doing it right. Learning. Nothing about pride there.

ehh, Im a bit of a nationalist, you will have to forgive me.

 

[Elenmmare]

Knowing your past and being proud of it are completely different things. Not knowing your past simply means you have a future with a bit more ignorance.

I know my past and it doesn't have much relation to that of the country I happen have been born in. I know the past of the country I grew up in and I can't say I'm proud of it. Some of it is awesome and some of it is horrible. Nevertheless, I'm neither proud nor ashamed at any of the bits of it. It has no relation to me, it is not my creation and wasn't my responsibility. I can not be proud of something I did not do or have any relation whatsoever to it.

At best, I can strive to make my ancestors and "my history" proud of me, not the other way around. I am a product of their achievements and not vice versa.

Premise 1: You are imbued with several of your nation's inherent traits: secularism, liberalism, a set of morals.
Premise 2: You can be proud of these traits
Conclusion: You can be proud of your nation

 

[Kobrag]

Ok ,maybe I used the wrong term, but where is the pride in peoples nations past? sounds better?

Proud that we used to be dirt farmers that went to war at the beckon of some fat old men wearing dresses?

I'll be pretty ashamed of that.

I guess, if you want to throw out all the culture EU has given to the world, and traditions, and inventions....But I guess us Americans care to much about history after all, what damn thing could we ever learn from the mistakes, and success of the pst

Laughably, America has no culture. 

 

[AWdeV]

They are not traits "inherent" to the nation. The traits are awesome and I think people who have the traits are awesome too but it's not limited per nation. That's only a pointless layer in between which serves no reason but using it as an excuse for bigotry, hatred and atrocities.

In short; no.

 

[Elenmmare]

I understand the caution around this subject in light of nationalism and patriotism. Nonetheless, you are making a flaw in assuming that pride in your nation is a logical step towards "bigotry, hatred and atrocities." It's trite and cliché to say it, but it is completely possible to have civic pride without adopting a jingoist foreign policy.

And that is why I am proud of many countries, more than just my own.

(Please don't mistake the following for a judgement of you,) but it is not mature nor positive to be apathetic towards the nations we've built.

 

[Zimke Zlovoljni]

I think the point of this is that no one cares about the dead Christians, they care about the destroyed churches and monasteries.

Oh ****, they are destroying our cultural heritage!

That is a very large and hard topic to start with:

Yellow House Case (organ trafficking of the 300 known kidnapped serbs).
Prison camps in Albania where Albanians disloyal to KLA and Serbian civilians were tortured and killed.
NATO bombing of civilians in Serbia in 1999, 2.000 civilians in Serbia were killed.
NATO use of depleted uranium ammunition resulted in 30.000 people died from cancer (my sister Svetlana and brother Zoran were one of them, my mother Nada have cancer too).
NATO use of forbidden Cluster Bomb Units on civilians.
Legitimate violence; continual violence an executions of Serbs on Kosovo under the KFOR protection (I was stabbed, father of my little sister's fiancee was executed, sisters fiancee was shot in the back, one friend was kidnapped during one of the attacks on the village)
Ethnic cleansing  of Kosovo Serbs that started under Yugoslavian dictator Josip Broz Tito support in 1974 is still active.

and there are many more sensitive topics that people do not know, or are being misinformed, due to media war against Serbia in the 90's.

Choosing one specific topic like cultural heritage is much easier to digest or start with.

 

[Legolan]

Ok ,maybe I used the wrong term, but where is the pride in peoples nations past? sounds better?

Proud that we used to be dirt farmers that went to war at the beckon of some fat old men wearing dresses?

I'll be pretty ashamed of that.

I guess, if you want to throw out all the culture EU has given to the world, and traditions, and inventions....But I guess us Americans care to much about history after all, what damn thing could we ever learn from the mistakes, and success of the pst

Laughably, America has no culture. 

wrong, America , North America has nine different cultures that most people dont talk about....They are as follows, Quebec, the foundry culture, New England Culture, Dixie, Mex-America, the islands, and the Empty Quarter which is a mix of those around it. Also the bread Basket. Im forgeting the other, well, what we call it atleast.

 

[Kobrag]

Ok ,maybe I used the wrong term, but where is the pride in peoples nations past? sounds better?

Proud that we used to be dirt farmers that went to war at the beckon of some fat old men wearing dresses?

I'll be pretty ashamed of that.

I guess, if you want to throw out all the culture EU has given to the world, and traditions, and inventions....But I guess us Americans care to much about history after all, what damn thing could we ever learn from the mistakes, and success of the pst

Laughably, America has no culture. 

wrong, America , North America has nine different cultures that most people dont talk about....They are as follows, Quebec, the foundry culture, New England Culture, Dixie, Mex-America, the islands, and the Empty Quarter which is a mix of those around it. Also the bread Basket. Im forgeting the other, well, what we call it atleast.

You have cultures, but are not cultured.
It's a play on words my barbarian friend. =]

 

[AWdeV]

@Elly: Nevertheless, it seems pointless to me. Pretty much every country has done both great and awesome things. I think humanity is pretty kickass all round so dividing it per country is pointless.

And I'm not saying being proud of a country automatically leads to a jingoist foreign policy but I am saying that when people start patting themselves on the back over what their ancestors did then it's all too often abused for nonsense. Same as happened here. Yes, extremist dickwads were being stupid. Does that justify being stupid in response? Nope, that'll either (eventually, unless someone is the bigger man) lead to all-out annihilation or a vicious cycle of stupid ****. People should just get over it. The past is the past. It's done and finished. The present and the future both are far more important.

 

[Legolan]

Ok ,maybe I used the wrong term, but where is the pride in peoples nations past? sounds better?

Proud that we used to be dirt farmers that went to war at the beckon of some fat old men wearing dresses?

I'll be pretty ashamed of that.

I guess, if you want to throw out all the culture EU has given to the world, and traditions, and inventions....But I guess us Americans care to much about history after all, what damn thing could we ever learn from the mistakes, and success of the pst

Laughably, America has no culture. 

wrong, America , North America has nine different cultures that most people dont talk about....They are as follows, Quebec, the foundry culture, New England Culture, Dixie, Mex-America, the islands, and the Empty Quarter which is a mix of those around it. Also the bread Basket. Im forgeting the other, well, what we call it atleast.

You have cultures, but are not cultured.
It's a play on words my barbarian friend. =]

Oh good lord, are common people often cultured? no, they just live life.....

 

[Cookie Eating Huskarl]

I think the point of this is that no one cares about the dead Christians, they care about the destroyed churches and monasteries.

Oh ****, they are destroying our cultural heritage!

That is a very large and hard topic to start with:

Yellow House Case (organ trafficking of the 300 known kidnapped serbs).
Prison camps in Albania where Albanians disloyal to KLA and Serbian civilians were tortured and killed.
NATO bombing of civilians in Serbia in 1999, 2.000 civilians in Serbia were killed.
NATO use of depleted uranium ammunition resulted in 30.000 people died from cancer (my sister Svetlana and brother Zoran were one of them, my mother Nada have cancer too).
NATO use of forbidden Cluster Bomb Units on civilians.
Legitimate violence; continual violence an executions of Serbs on Kosovo under the KFOR protection (I was stabbed, father of my little sister's fiancee was executed, sisters fiancee was shot in the back, one friend was kidnapped during one of the attacks on the village)
Ethnic cleansing  of Kosovo Serbs that started under Yugoslavian dictator Josip Broz Tito support in 1974 is still active.

and there are many more sensitive topics that people do not know, or are being misinformed, due to media war against Serbia in the 90's.

Choosing one specific topic like cultural heritage is much easier to digest or start with.

I'll answer with a fictional statement someone is using as a sig somewhere here.

"The problem with this world shall and will remain apparent when these three words are still present.

Children are dying."

 

[Kobrag]

Ok ,maybe I used the wrong term, but where is the pride in peoples nations past? sounds better?

Proud that we used to be dirt farmers that went to war at the beckon of some fat old men wearing dresses?

I'll be pretty ashamed of that.

I guess, if you want to throw out all the culture EU has given to the world, and traditions, and inventions....But I guess us Americans care to much about history after all, what damn thing could we ever learn from the mistakes, and success of the pst

Laughably, America has no culture. 

wrong, America , North America has nine different cultures that most people dont talk about....They are as follows, Quebec, the foundry culture, New England Culture, Dixie, Mex-America, the islands, and the Empty Quarter which is a mix of those around it. Also the bread Basket. Im forgeting the other, well, what we call it atleast.

You have cultures, but are not cultured.
It's a play on words my barbarian friend. =]

Oh good lord, are common people often cultured? no, they just live life.....

Well if an American isn't a fat, poorley educated buffoon who quotes a bible that he hardly ever reads, yet alone understands. Then he is probably one of these ****tards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOLQoraeVOg

 

[Dryvus]

They are as follows, Quebec

Ha! Hahaha!

 

[Zimke Zlovoljni]

I think the point of this is that no one cares about the dead Christians, they care about the destroyed churches and monasteries.

Oh ****, they are destroying our cultural heritage!

That is a very large and hard topic to start with:

Yellow House Case (organ trafficking of the 300 known kidnapped serbs).
Prison camps in Albania where Albanians disloyal to KLA and Serbian civilians were tortured and killed.
NATO bombing of civilians in Serbia in 1999, 2.000 civilians in Serbia were killed.
NATO use of depleted uranium ammunition resulted in 30.000 people died from cancer (my sister Svetlana and brother Zoran were one of them, my mother Nada have cancer too).
NATO use of forbidden Cluster Bomb Units on civilians.
Legitimate violence; continual violence an executions of Serbs on Kosovo under the KFOR protection (I was stabbed, father of my little sister's fiancee was executed, sisters fiancee was shot in the back, one friend was kidnapped during one of the attacks on the village)
Ethnic cleansing  of Kosovo Serbs that started under Yugoslavian dictator Josip Broz Tito support in 1974 is still active.

and there are many more sensitive topics that people do not know, or are being misinformed, due to media war against Serbia in the 90's.

Choosing one specific topic like cultural heritage is much easier to digest or start with.

I'll answer with a fictional statement someone is using as a sig somewhere here.

"The problem with this world shall and will remain apparent when these three words are still present.

Children are dying."

That is the problem, serbian children are still dying on Kosovo.

 

[Pazanius]

That is a very large and hard topic to start with:

Yellow House Case (organ trafficking of the 300 known kidnapped serbs).
Prison camps in Albania where Albanians disloyal to KLA and Serbian civilians were tortured and killed.
NATO bombing of civilians in Serbia in 1999, 2.000 civilians in Serbia were killed.
NATO use of depleted uranium ammunition resulted in 30.000 people died from cancer (my sister Svetlana and brother Zoran were one of them, my mother Nada have cancer too).
NATO use of forbidden Cluster Bomb Units on civilians.
Legitimate violence; continual violence an executions of Serbs on Kosovo under the KFOR protection (I was stabbed, father of my little sister's fiancee was executed, sisters fiancee was shot in the back, one friend was kidnapped during one of the attacks on the village)
Ethnic cleansing  of Kosovo Serbs that started under Yugoslavian dictator Josip Broz Tito support in 1974 is still active.

and there are many more sensitive topics that people do not know, or are being misinformed, due to media war against Serbia in the 90's.

Choosing one specific topic like cultural heritage is much easier to digest or start with.

I totally agree with you.
Albanians did many MANY bad things to the Serbians in Kosovo war and after that and the West just hiding those bandits but judging Serbians.Albanians are still killing Serbians in Kosovo and KFOR is hiding those killers and trying to destroy Serbian barricades in north Kosovo to let Albanians take a control on north Serbian enclave in Kosovo.
Kosovo's occupation by albanians is not legitimate. But west countries just wants to see Serbia as a little dot on Balkan's map surrounded by some little dots like Rushka, Kosovo and etc.
Yugoslavia was destroyed by NATO just because it was an last strong socialistic country in Europe, was the Home of many south slavic people and it was too dangerous to let Yugoslavia exist on a World map.

 

[Legolan]

Ok ,maybe I used the wrong term, but where is the pride in peoples nations past? sounds better?

Proud that we used to be dirt farmers that went to war at the beckon of some fat old men wearing dresses?

I'll be pretty ashamed of that.

I guess, if you want to throw out all the culture EU has given to the world, and traditions, and inventions....But I guess us Americans care to much about history after all, what damn thing could we ever learn from the mistakes, and success of the pst

Laughably, America has no culture. 

wrong, America , North America has nine different cultures that most people dont talk about....They are as follows, Quebec, the foundry culture, New England Culture, Dixie, Mex-America, the islands, and the Empty Quarter which is a mix of those around it. Also the bread Basket. Im forgeting the other, well, what we call it atleast.

You have cultures, but are not cultured.
It's a play on words my barbarian friend. =]

Oh good lord, are common people often cultured? no, they just live life.....

Well if an American isn't a fat, poorley educated buffoon who quotes a bible that he hardly ever reads, yet alone understands. Then he is probably one of these ****tards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOLQoraeVOg

who is this **** tard? and yes, some people do make money off this ****

 

[Cookie Eating Huskarl]

I was going to write something harsh then decided against it. So I'll word it more politely. What are you going to do? Are you going to blame the Albanians, or are you going to work towards a solution. You know us chair ****ers here have no real pull in the real world, so why bother? I know children are still dying. That's why I'm still working towards killing everything.

 

[Zimke Zlovoljni]

Well yes, what am I going to do indeed, my hands are tied, the only thing left is to try and inform the world, in hope that others will do the same. That's the only thing left since the world decides about the future of kosovo serbs, based on informations the world politicians find "satisfying enough" to present to the public.

Since KFOR came on Kosovo 1000 serbs has been killed, 1340 missing, this numbers are well known to the UN which functions on principle, "yes we know things are getting worse each day, but none of us wants to see the bad reports, so give us something positive to read ", so the UN officials most commonly conclude "the problems and challenges are still present and many, but after 4 years of UNMIK mandate our successes are evident".

 

[wrc]

Well, since I'm Serbian myself I'll give my opinion on this.
All what Zimke says is true and it's horrible what's going on right now. Unfortunately, we can't blame no one but ourselves for current situation in Kosovo. If we try to change something NATO will beat the **** out of us again. We should have joined NATO in the beginning of the 90' when we actually could have done that, but no, we turned to Russians instead. All help we got from them was a couple of trucks with humanitarian help and nothing changed by now,their trucks are still coming and we are still listening same stories about "Russians brothers" and other **** like that. Thanks,but no thanks. NATO already came on their borders,it's just a matter of time until they kick their ass like they kicked ours.
I don't say we should give up Kosovo just like that, but people in the world don't really care what's going on there, just like our people don't really care what's happening in North Korea.
I just hope we'll choose the right side next time like we always did through our history ( e.g. WW I or WWII ).