About sieges...do they exist?

Users who are viewing this thread

RollTheBones

Regular
So I am wondering, just out of curiosity.

What is a siege like?

I am asking because I have never been able to siege, well, anything.  Whenever I try, no matter how remote the location appears to be, before I can even start Lord ImGonnaKickYourAss comes running up with his 170 man party and mops the floor with me.

I am level 20, have  a party size of 60 and would really like to be able to at least TRY to take something.  :sad:  If nothing else just to prove that all this talk about "garrisons" and "improvements" are not rumors, since I seem to be a landless vagabond even after all this time with a renown of 600 something.

What's funny is everything else is a cakewalk, as long as its not Lord ImGonnaKickYourAss, I have taken out parties twice my size, as long as I am not trying to siege anything.
 
well, basically you spawn with your force in front of the front gate of a castle. There`s a trebuchet with you that sits there doing nothing, but you`d notice a big hole at the top of the wall, which was apparently made by the trebuchet. In one of the quick battles(the one where you defend) you can see how the tower on the end of the castle opposite the breach in the wall is burning and has a sizeable hole in it :razz:

So, depending on the castle, you have either a ladder propped up already on the breach, or a very slow siege tower creeping towards it. The siege tower usually allows for an innuendo where the missile troops of the opposing forces can duke it off, or for that matter anyone who has a ranged weapon(which is why Nord huscarls and Khergit lancers are actually effective in sieges).
Thing is all the castles have a different layout, from a simple `wood stakes and huge mounds of ground`rampart through a simple square with stone walls to something so complex it can drive you mad(you go and take a walk around the courtyard of any castle belonging to a faction you`re not hostile to). One little trick is that the castle`s little depiction on the map actually gives and idea of how the castle looks. E.g. if the castle is wooden and has two towers at the front, this is what you should expect.

Some advice, though. Never attack Grunwalder and Asugan castles unless you have huge amounts of high-tier missile troops and are ready to lose a lot of people. At Grunwalder you`re not likely to get beyond the breach in the wall because of the damn thing`s position(after all, the castle is named after the greatest Rhodok hero and built where he fell; and Rhodoks fight by bogging down people in hard terrain and a lot of people with polearms).
In Asugan getting through the breach is actually very easy, it even impedes the defenders from stopping you getting in. The problem is once you get inside - the place is such a multi-leveled maze you`ll lose an enormous amount of soldiers cleaning it up.

Btw you can still take a castle with 60, but only if they`re high-tier troops and the defenders aren`t too much. I personally prefer to go for missile troops, as I can simply shoot the defenders out of the walls without risking my peeps in charging through that little hole.
Beware of chokepoints - once a single Rhodok sergeant held off a door against about fifty mid- and high-tier soldiers until I managed to get behind him with my nimble archer and shoot him in the back :???: Good thing I was soloing and the soldiers that died in that fight weren`t mine. Another time a handful of Swadian high-tier infantry held off a corner of the wall for a good time until I managed to get on their open side and start shooting.
 
How to play a siege at level 1 with no troops:

Join a faction, wait for your marshall to call the posse together, deal with all the bull**** missions of "patrol XYZ" and "bring us cattle", if your faction doesn't suck, eventually they'll try to attack a castle, and join the battle when you see all the lords converge on the castle and the big "BATTLE" icon appear over the castle.

EDIT: But, at level 20 with 60 troops, you should be able to attack a castle by yourself without too much trouble. You probably just need better troops like Huscarls or Marksmen.
 
the only problem with that is that a low level toon is not very likely to last in a siege for more than a minute or two. Sieges are the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia.
 
Ludial said:
the only problem with that is that a low level toon is not very likely to last in a siege for more than a minute or two. Sieges are the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia.

He just wanted to play in one, not necessarily survive it.  :mrgreen: In a marshall-led assault, your team very likely vastly outnumbers the garrison, and your first wave would spawn with something like 10 lords on your side, so you'd tend to win even if you just hanged back and did nothing.
 
Ludial said:
the only problem with that is that a low level toon is not very likely to last in a siege for more than a minute or two. Sieges are the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia.

I disagree. At level 20 he should do fine in a siege. I did a siege before I ended by demo trial and lived. Granted we lost a lot of troops in that battle because I tried fighting my way up the ladder (and got pushed off). But if he were to do what I do now, and jump over the troops and get in behind them (the enemy) then he can hack at their backs while they get attacked to the front. He should survive.
 
Another tip:
one of the easiest castles to take is Chalbek (spelling?), not far from Thir.
It's easy because has a very wide breach in the wall and a large slope.
Enemies in it tend to actually come down from the slope and attack you. So you can make your men hold position at the base of the slope and use it as bottleneck against them while your archers stay back and pick the enemy from a distance.

Of course for the same reasons it's a difficult to defend castle. I never request it when i take it. But if you want to try sieges that may be the first choice. Besides it's comfortably in one angle of the map.. unlikely that any lord will come to rescue.
 
As said before.. Play a quick battle, it has a defensive siege, and an offensive siege..
Theres .. Four normal fights to. ( .. 4 right? )

Just launch the game, select quick batttle, and pick the one you'd like to play.
 
I think the problem for RollTheBones is that he starts a siege but gets attacked by a relief party before the siege tower is ready.
Just try to find a right moment when the parties of the faction owning castle are away. It takes some wandering around to watch if there are any enemy parties nearby. Watching messages helps as well ("Castle ... has been besieged by Lord ... fo the ..." or so). Then you know the owners are away.

There are two problems however that come together:

- if your engineer skill is low (and Artimener is not with you) it takes a long time to build a siege tower and that gives time for the relief to come and "mop the floor with you"
- the lord who owns the castle knows that you besieged his castle so he will try to come for relief if he can (so even if no enemy party is nearby, you can expect one to come)

What can help is to find a castle / town that you storm with a ladder rather than the tower. The ladder builds much much faster (for my engineer skill of 5 or 6 it takes 6 hours) and you probably would be able to attack the castle before the relief comes.

Quite difficult to believe anyway, that you made 600 renown and never joined a siege or at least tried the Quick battle...
 
AlienKnight said:
I think the problem for RollTheBones is that he starts a siege but gets attacked by a relief party before the siege tower is ready.

BINGO!

All of the other responses may be helpful, I cant say since I never actually *get* to the point of seiging; as soon as I choose the option to lay siege, it says it will take X hours to put up ladders, then while I am waiting some OMFGWTFPWN Lord with 3 times my army swoops in out of nowhere and crushes me.  And even if I dont get crushed I am lucky to have 20 healthy men by the time its over.

AlienKnight said:
Just try to find a right moment when the parties of the faction owning castle are away. It takes some wandering around to watch if there are any enemy parties nearby. Watching messages helps as well ("Castle ... has been besieged by Lord ... fo the ..." or so). Then you know the owners are away.


How freaking far do they have to be?!?  The last few times I tried this, every enemy party was running from me and I never see the huge party that teleports in to thrash me.


AlienKnight said:
What can help is to find a castle / town that you storm with a ladder rather than the tower. The ladder builds much much faster (for my engineer skill of 5 or 6 it takes 6 hours) and you probably would be able to attack the castle before the relief comes.

Quite difficult to believe anyway, that you made 600 renown and never joined a siege or at least tried the Quick battle...

So far every siege I have tried has started with the ladder option.

Its no lie about my reknown; I have killed more bandits/sea raiders/enemy parties than I can remember.  Every lord I meet says something about my name inspiring fear or some such. 

And it's true, never shot one arrow anywhere near an enemy emplacement.  :sad:
 
Before a siege I had a few thousand renown under my belt, I didn't join a faction for quite some time. 
 
personally I tend to avoid sieges. Like I mentioned, they`re the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia. There`s also another little problem - pretty often, after a castle is taken, whoever lost it, or someone else at war with you, gathers `the king`s whole host`(it`s nothing in English, but in my language it`s a pretty known and significant pun), and comes and lays siege. We`re talking about upwards of 500 soldiers trying to get your ass, with just a puny garnison and nowhere to run. In the siege assault itself you go with half a dozen of your folks against about 80 of the enemy... I`ve deleted toons after having this happen to me. For all of my current commanders I`ve decided to siege only once I have a full 100 elite troops with each one of them(marksmen, rhod sharpshooters and khergit lancers, respectively)
 
Ludial said:
personally I tend to avoid sieges. Like I mentioned, they`re the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia. There`s also another little problem - pretty often, after a castle is taken, whoever lost it, or someone else at war with you, gathers `the king`s whole host`(it`s nothing in English, but in my language it`s a pretty known and significant pun), and comes and lays siege. We`re talking about upwards of 500 soldiers trying to get your ass, with just a puny garnison and nowhere to run. In the siege assault itself you go with half a dozen of your folks against about 80 of the enemy... I`ve deleted toons after having this happen to me. For all of my current commanders I`ve decided to siege only once I have a full 100 elite troops with each one of them(marksmen, rhod sharpshooters and khergit lancers, respectively)

Geez, that's disconcerting  :cry:

One of the things I was looking forward to in this game is the empire building aspect; I want to take over towns and castles and rule the land!!!

 
like I said, only start building the empire once you have enough people for that. you could join a faction, or help a claimant, but if you want to be an independant warlord, you need to have a huge army, or be really good at manipulating the politics in the region. If you go for a huge army, it`s gonna be really slow, but it`s very size would mean you`d be able to chase down and crush kings.
 
Rollbones, if you want to try a siege, but don't want to cheat, try the quick battle option and go to siege attack, then you will get a taste of the siege aspect of the game.
I personally have cheated in the game(not to say I haven't gone without cheating) and i know all the limits of the game, i have sieged every castle, and Town.  I may be a nord, but I have been the other factions before, and if there is anything I learned from that is Tihr is the hardest town to siege in the game.
 
I seiged castles with around 60 men back in the day, usually by parking my men in a safe place and picking the enemy off with a siege crossbow and 3 quivers of bolts.  Cheap, but hey.

I think your problem is that you're not in a faction.  I'd say join a faction, and when you get the order to join a campaign follow the marshall, and when he beseiges a castle, sneak off and siege another one nearbye.  Hopefully the marshall and the lords following him will intercept him.  If they don't, break off siege and run to their protective arms.
 
Ludial said:
the only problem with that is that a low level toon is not very likely to last in a siege for more than a minute or two. Sieges are the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia.

Thinking of that, seiges were actually extremely safe compared to open field battles, in the several hundred years from the fall of the Roman Empire to the popularization of the aquibusier only a handfull of open field-battles took place because they were so risky,and had high casualty rates even for the winning side (~10%-20%) which isn't that high compared to wars in the industrial, gunpowder, and modern ages.

Of course real life seiges did not involve a single entry point that magically got there
 
Bismarkpwns said:
Ludial said:
the only problem with that is that a low level toon is not very likely to last in a siege for more than a minute or two. Sieges are the biggest meat grinders in all Calradia.

Thinking of that, seiges were actually extremely safe compared to open field battles, in the several hundred years from the fall of the Roman Empire to the popularization of the aquibusier only a handfull of open field-battles took place because they were so risky,and had high casualty rates even for the winning side (~10%-20%) which isn't that high compared to wars in the industrial, gunpowder, and modern ages.

Of course real life seiges did not involve a single entry point that magically got there
how can something where huge boulders hurled in the air and wrecking entire buildings full of soldiers not be as deadly as a field battle? or where well thrown pots of flaming oil can turn a city/stronghold into an inferno? where basically people most often fought to the death because there was nowhere to run and where civilian casualties were so high simply cuz the besieged places were naturally so full of them. care to explain?

And I was saying that in M&B a low lvl toon will have a very hard time in a siege exactly because of the packed nature of the fight. When you`re pressed to the wall by your own people, and your way out being cut off by them, with enemy missile troops taking pot shots at you from all sides, there`s rarely a way to escape that Swadian sergeant who`s bringing his friggin`spiky ball on a stick down on you :???:
 
Back
Top Bottom