about maces

[JumBoo]

by maces i mean the one handed knobbed? and spiked maces (with blunt damage)

is it just me or do they generally suck?
i dont see ANYONE using them, they are short, slowish, deal low blunt damage(which is supposedly good against armor, but
why use them against armor when you can just get an axe that will deal more damage to armor with cutting damage, not to
mention the bonus versus shields) and then the only good thing is the knockdown effect which rarely happens, and when it
does happen its basically just an extra attack with the already weakish mace, not to mention if the knocked down guy falls
under a rock or something.

i propose giving them some kind of buff, to make them more unique/specialized
- make blunt more effective vs armor
- give them more weight, or make them have a short stun effect on blocking people
- add knockback, when you hit someone you knock them back, even if they block
- make the knockdown % change depending which area of the enemy you hit (hitting the legs gives the highest chance mayhaps)

well, what do you think!?

 

[Mammoet]

I try to use them quite often, just because they're cool. But I do agree they seem to be a little weak. It takes ages to destroy a shield with one of them and well they just could use a bit more damage in my opinion. Not sure how much of an bonus they get against armor, but I can hardly imagine they do more damage then an axe of the same value. Plus theyre slower, which is fine because they are probably also heavier. Especially the cheapest one, the spiked mace? seems quite weak.

 

[Turanien]

Maces probably shouldn't be in, at least the Native ones. I personally have never found much evidence to suggest the use of maces, even if Odo of Bayeux was supposedly a big user of them.

 

[Merlkir]

Maces seem to haven't been very common in the 11th century, if we're talking metal maces (judging from dateable finds I guess). Clubs on the other hand - very common (they were used as judicial weapons for duels among the common people for instance):

(Codex Vyšehradský)

reconstruction:

spiky club used from Hortus Deliciarum (12th century, but still):

another one from Peter deEbulo's codex (12th century as well)

frankish mace from 12th century - reconstruction:

Cast brass (I think) Pannonian maces from 12th/13th century:

Example of use

 

[The exceeding arrow]

is the last guy eating grass?

 

[FrisianDude]

I used to use the mace a lot, but lately haven't. It DOES feel a bit weak.

even if Odo of Bayeux was supposedly a big user of them.

I think both William the Conquering Bastard and Odo had a stout club but that was more of a symbol of their power rather than their actual weapon. At least, that's what I recall an Osprey Elite book about Normans mentioning.

Anyway, as Merlkir said, I'd be willing to bet both my feet on the fact that heavy wooden clubs were more common than metal-headed maces. I really rather like having maces in, though, even if they turn out not to be very common in the era and area of this mod.

 

[Spesh]

Oooooooh shineeeee

 

[Amon]

That looks like a pre-industrialisation dough stirrer Spesh. We could call it "Flower-on-a-stick" to avoid the food connotation though.

 

[Coy]

is the last guy eating grass?

He stuck grass in between his padded coif and mail aventail to provide more cushioning from blows.

 

[Merlkir]

Yep, I'd say the coif wasn't all that padded really

 

[Moeckerkalfie]

Spoiler: what Merlkir wrote

Maces seem to haven't been very common in the 11th century, if we're talking metal maces (judging from dateable finds I guess). Clubs on the other hand - very common (they were used as judicial weapons for duels among the common people for instance):
[...]
Example of use

Ah, that mace! Its really a piece of art in its own way. Theres an entire kind of world view connected to that design, it just breathes violence... I could so imagine clubbing peoples heads in with that thing! What use are swords and fancy armor when your brains are dripping out over it...
I would love to see it in the game!

..But it needs a different sound from the current blunt damage sound, it should be a rather ringing metal on metal sound that indicates the target being malformed and mangled!

 

[Mammoet]

like this?? http://www.hark.com/clips/qtvchldzhr-impact-metal-stove-breaking-crush-1  (just a 1 min google search, not the best you can find most probably)

 

[Moeckerkalfie]

Hm its sounds like there were some loose parts swinging around, it would be good for a shield hit though.
But for the hit against the body it sound more like a ringing impact that leads to a deformation, with maybe a small note of mangled flesh in it^^

Or how about a really nasty bone cracking sound? 

 

[Lionheart89]

I think its right that maces should be available, ive definitely heard of them being used in this time period, but I agree they should have some changes made beacuse they are pathetic.

I think because of popular culture / fantasy things people tend to think axes and maces were much bigger than they were in real-life, in reality, even a small head such as this:

Example of use

Spoiler

would still have been very effective

 

[Lionheart89]

Hm its sounds like there were some loose parts swinging around, it would be good for a shield hit though.
But for the hit against the body it sound more like a ringing impact that leads to a deformation, with maybe a small note of mangled flesh in it^^

Or how about a really nasty bone cracking sound? 

Also, I agree about the blunt noise, i have thought this for a while, you can hit someone with a huge mallet and it sound like someone playing conkers. there should definitely be some new sounds that include some mangling of flesh and ringing of metal

 

[Ferago]

Actually I've found the mace very useful as a norman horseman. Riding past and clipping someone in the head with a mace is very satisfying.

They could be a bit stronger though, or have the knockdown chance increased.

 

[Davee]

But they do have a pretty high knock-down chance.

I quite like the maces myself. You shouldn't think of them as good 1-on-1 duel weapons, they weren't exactly used for that... They're supposed to be slow and crude. You need a few consecutive hits, but you can take down people in padded cloth just as easy as people in tunics. A knock-down (which happens quite a lot in my opinion) basically means the guy is dead/a free hit. Heavy armor is a problem, but hey - it's not exactly huge, heavy, armour-piercing maces we've got. Besides, we don't want to make it a weapon you see very often. It should be a rare sight.

And oh - always aim for the head. Helmets don't help that much against blunt trauma

Will consider upping some stat by a point or so though, nothing major.

 

[MayPeX]

I've quick like the mace at the moment.

Quite useful when your fighting that chainmail foe and you havent got anything but a bit of sheep wool to save you. If you get a knock down with the mace that gives you another hit which could possible end him. But sometimes I do which the knockdown chance was increased slightly to make up for the 5 to 7 hits to kill someone. Maybe?

 

[Moeckerkalfie]

Hm I used the powerful and mighty spiked club a bit this morning. As with many shorter weapons I found the minimum range a bit problematic, since it is really difficult to get the range difference between hitting and glancing right.
For example I got involved in a melee against Mardok, who played as a berserker with a longaxe. We circled each other and I got very close and landed four consecutive hits which all glanced off, although he wore only the pelt-less berserker "armor".

I know that the spiked club is not supposed to be the weapon of choice, but what purpose does it serve right now? It is definitely a worse weapon than the seax, and I would probably rather prefer the torch for its nice effect if I were playing a bit more seriously. I think if the spiked club is supposed to be used as a fun weapon or for mere aesthetics we could at least give it an individual model so it has a bit more dignity. I would even volunteer for this and recreate that wonderful piece of art Merlkir posted earlier 

 

[AWdeV]

The maces in the mod already are cool but dangit if Merlkir's examples aren't even cooler. As for me, I like maces well enough. They don't drastically decrease my low fighting skill so they're totally word the satisfying *THUNK* if I bop someone against the ear and watch them sniff sod.