About Leadership skill

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Curently in the game there are three was to increase your Leadership skill:
1) Recruit a lot of troops (gives you very small amount of skill XP)
2) Maintain high morale (gives you small but more or less stable amount of skill XP)
3) Assemble and lead armies (the only real way to increase that skill IMHO)
And the last one is the problem. You cannot assemble armies if you are not a vassal or a king. So, if you are neutral or a mercenary, you cannot level your Leadership skill properly. I found this to be a problem, as I recently started my playthrough as a mercenary clan (company) of knights/cavalry, and getting some Vlandian noble troops are a bit of a problem. Noble recruits are a rare sight in villages and almost impossible to find in towns, but there's a Disciplinarian perk at Leadership skill of 125, which allows to convert most bandits into the noble troops.
BUT
you can't level your Leadership properly if you are not a vassal or a king.
Suggestions:
1) Allow mercenaries and neutrals to gather armies (but only made of your clan parties) AND/OR
2) Make more ways to level your Leadership, for example by winning battles, especially when odds are not in your favor
3) Something different, which didn't come to my mind.
 

Aggrobiscuit

Recruit
After a certain point, morale will always be capped at 100 because of "personal", and the leadership gains become pretty steady without leading an army.

Not exactly sure what personal is. Maybe a combination of charm and renown? I started letting lords go instead of executing, and my charm rose pretty well. After that, I started getting leadership gains just from playing.
 
After a certain point, morale will always be capped at 100 because of "personal", and the leadership gains become pretty steady without leading an army.

Not exactly sure what personal is. Maybe a combination of charm and leadership. I started letting lords go instead of executing, and my charm rose pretty well. After that, I started getting leadership gains just from playing.
"Personal" is your morale boost, added by your Leadership skill. It will become around 50 somewhere near skill level 100-125. But you gotta get your Leadership that high first.
 

Aggrobiscuit

Recruit
"Personal" is your morale boost, added by your Leadership skill. It will become around 50 somewhere near skill level 100-125. But you gotta get your Leadership that high first.

Seems like a circular flaw. Raising leadership to get passive leadership gains. Surely the design isn't this silly? I felt this pain too, but it should be possible to get leadership high enough to be useful before dying of old age, maybe.
 
Seems like a circular flaw. Raising leadership to get passive leadership gains. Surely the design isn't this silly? I felt this pain too, but it should be possible to get leadership high enough to be useful before dying of old age, maybe.
Well, as I said the only sure way to get your Leadership is leading an army, which is not possible for mercenary.
 

Bob Gnarly

Sergeant at Arms
Agree with OP.

I always raise leadership to 125 just for the Disciplinarian perk, but I have to resort to becoming a vassal, building up influence and then leading some armies, usually doing a few sieges to raise engineering for a companion while I'm at it.

There should be more viable options of raising leadership.
 

Wulfsdottir

Sergeant
2) Make more ways to level your Leadership, for example by winning battles, especially when odds are not in your favor
3) Something different, which didn't come to my mind.
Agree. Leadership is pain for non-vassal or king. I am all for option 2.
As of 3) Maybe some quests should reward with leadership skill points as well (quests like tutoring the Lord/Lady, Training troops and Bringing garrison troops)
 
I think leadership currently is not worth the FP at all. But then again it's hard to think of what I would trade it for that isn't equally worthless, but still..... Let me list off why I think so.
1 The exp perk is garbage. After playing with it for a loooong time I can confidently say I makes no noticeable difference at all to have it or not.

2 Disciplinary perk is not very useful by the time you get 125. Takes too long to get leadership that high. By then you're swimming in beautiful bad dudes. Remember you can't 'rush' it so.... but even if you could there's number 3

3 Garrisons will magically discipline your fully cooked bandit troops into normal troops. Don't know if this will get patched out and I don't think it works on troops that would require a warhorse (not sure), but it turns forest bandit into Fians and that's the best use of this perk.

4 I'm not sure if the perk to strait up recruit bandits works yet, making the disciplinary much weaker. Btw can you make bandits surrender like looters? Haven't seen it yet but....

That said, the moral bonus is nice but I'll probably be happy when they re-vamp leadership. I also agree there needs to be better way to level it, or let us lead an army as a free clan.

After a certain point, morale will always be capped at 100 because of "personal", and the leadership gains become pretty steady without leading an army.
This is true but it's also pretty slow. I became a vassal early and lead an endless army. After I left I got the moral bonus to always have 100, but that was a long time ago. Day 900+ and I'm still inching toward the 125 perk.

1) Recruit a lot of troops (gives you very small amount of skill XP)
YES! I've seen it happen but I didn't realize why! I though it was weird because shouldn't my moral go down when I bulk up on at ton of troops?
Thank you for clearing this up, I play so much and learn all these little thing still all the time on the forums.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
If they aren't willing to give mercenary and independent clans the ability to form armies for whatever reason, then it should be treated how Engineering is now: everyone in the army builds up leadership XP.
 

Aggrobiscuit

Recruit
YES! I've seen it happen but I didn't realize why! I though it was weird because shouldn't my moral go down when I bulk up on at ton of troops?

The leadership exp is gained when you recruit the troops, you can donate them or let them go afterwards and recruit more.
 

MinhTien

Veteran
WBVC
4 I'm not sure if the perk to strait up recruit bandits works yet, making the disciplinary much weaker. Btw can you make bandits surrender like looters? Haven't seen it yet but....
I'm not sure how you haven't seen it, but bandits of all types surrender all the goddamned time in unmodded game, to the point I have difficulty finding someone to fight and level my troops. No need for any perk either.
 

Aggrobiscuit

Recruit
I'm not sure how you haven't seen it, but bandits of all types surrender all the goddamned time in unmodded game, to the point I have difficulty finding someone to fight and level my troops. No need for any perk either.

I found that if you keep your party under 100 people, the surrender thing happens far less often. I think it happens a lot more after you outnumber them by 10:1, but troop tiers might play a part in the calculation too.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
There seems to be some flaw here in your way of thinking(no offense).

You can boost the morale of your troops in alot of ways ->
1. have lots of different food - this lvl up steward skill directly, but also over time helps leadership(imo to low gain)
2. win big battles, like crazy odds, this leads to huge morale bonus +10+12 easy.
3. at the inn's talk to the barmaid - taste the speciality, then talk to her again, spend 1k denar and boom small boost to morale.

But overall I do agree with the sentiment that leadership value "is too hard" to gain properly as a non-vassal.
Should be able to form armies of our own as mercenary(we can have the parties, just not form them into an army).
 

shades_o_grey

Sergeant Knight at Arms
M&BWB
I think that the act of upgrading troops would be a balanced way to earn leadership experience. Growing your force from a ragtag bunch of recruits into a hardened veteran force sounds like"leadership" to me. This would also reward going out and fighting rather than earning experience by idling with an army somewhere doing nothing.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
I think that the act of upgrading troops would be a balanced way to earn leadership experience. Growing your force from a ragtag bunch of recruits into a hardened veteran force sounds like"leadership" to me. This would also reward going out and fighting rather than earning experience by idling with an army somewhere doing nothing.

This with the upgrade = leadership I would think is a very good mechanic indeed and logical way to upgrade the skill.
(how hard its to implement any of theese things I have 0 clue on though)
 

dukester

Recruit
3 Garrisons will magically discipline your fully cooked bandit troops into normal troops. Don't know if this will get patched out and I don't think it works on troops that would require a warhorse (not sure), but it turns forest bandit into Fians and that's the best use of this perk.
I've seen multiple people mention this on the forum, but I don't know if you know (haven't seen it mentioned), it also works if you have a companion in your army as a separate party. Give them bandits ready for upgrade, inspect their troops again later (not sure exactly how much later) and they've been upgraded. Can't confirm 100%, but I think it also works for troops that require horses. I believe they've done this so AI lords could upgrade troops normally, without having to 'teach' them to buy horses as necessary.
This is more practical than the garrison since you can do it 'on the way' (if you're at a point and choose to lead an army composed of your clan's parties). Let's not speak about the other two major problems in this case, namely that your companions over-recruit above allowed number as well as gifting your hard-earned elite soldiers left and right whenever you visit a friendly town or castle.
Edit: and the third problem as well: you, as an ARMY/CLAN LEADER, should have first dibs on all prisoners after a battle. The way it is now, after winning a major army-vs-army battle, I can't count I will get any of the many lords we've slain, so don't have any control over if I want to execute them or release them for improving relations or anything. This is retarded. Sorry for the off-topic, I guess this calls for its own thread.
 

Slithy

Regular
Seems like a circular flaw. Raising leadership to get passive leadership gains. Surely the design isn't this silly?
Yeah, this is a significant issue. The idea that you can't use one of the only ways to level leadership without having high enough leadership for the bonus is ridiculous.

A similar issue I've seen is that scouting goes from relatively slow leveling to turbospeed when you unlock the thing to see parties further away.
 

Skatan

Regular
you can't level your Leadership properly if you are not a vassal or a king.
Suggestions:
1) Allow mercenaries and neutrals to gather armies (but only made of your clan parties) AND/OR
2) Make more ways to level your Leadership, for example by winning battles, especially when odds are not in your favor
3) Something different, which didn't come to my mind.

Totally agree on number 1. Make the ability to lead army tied to clan tier level rather than being in a faction.



There seems to be some flaw here in your way of thinking(no offense).

You can boost the morale of your troops in alot of ways ->
1. have lots of different food - this lvl up steward skill directly, but also over time helps leadership(imo to low gain)
2. win big battles, like crazy odds, this leads to huge morale bonus +10+12 easy.
3. at the inn's talk to the barmaid - taste the speciality, then talk to her again, spend 1k denar and boom small boost to morale.

But overall I do agree with the sentiment that leadership value "is too hard" to gain properly as a non-vassal.
Should be able to form armies of our own as mercenary(we can have the parties, just not form them into an army).

There's no flaw in his thinking. If you've played the game long enough you should have experienced yourself how utterly slow leadership skill levels on morale only. It's like 1 tick in a game month? I always go for food variety 9 and morale from battles to level steward with about 1 tick per game day, but leadership can only reliably be leveled with armies and armies only.
 

Apocal

Master Knight
Give them bandits ready for upgrade, inspect their troops again later (not sure exactly how much later) and they've been upgraded

By pay period. When you hear the denars clink, they should be upgraded, assuming your companion has the money.
 
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