about early access games

[voronius]

I'll say it bluntly: you can easly get scammed with early access games those days. Or feel like you've been tricked/scammed.
Even if the developer believes he finished the game and deliverd the "finished" product to you. The problem is the lack of a set
of rules for early access game release.
Every game that goes into early access ( where people pay to fund future developement ) should show people a plan
describing how the final product will be, what is already done , what design features are likely/unlikely to change.
That is if the designer has a vision and he's not willing to let go of something he should say it. Like : we want the AI
to cheat here, here and there and we won't have it otherwise. And if some things are open for debate it should say
so : here we see it in this color but we can let the community decide on the color.
So before taking our money for early access there should be a few pages typed and posted with those things.
So that we know what we fund. I know 60 $ or whatever is not a big deal for each one of us but if you think
about it some early games get 1kk + $ or more for doing so and then they fail to deliver what they promissed.
So let's not thow our money around like that cause it encourages scams.

And they (the developers) should stick to those pages (the plan) and those pages should not be modified without the investors consent.

And second part of the thing is that for the parts where community can vote not all people votes should be equal.
If you got the early access you should somehow have more weight than someone who's still undecided and
who chose not to invest money into it and who brings his cat and his dog and his grandfather on the forums to vote for his opinion
on polls.
I mean, a person that decides not to invest in an early access game will buy the game or not after the full relase
based on reviews most likely. They don't need to vote on sensitive things if they don't care enough about
the game to invest in it . That would ruin things for people that decided to invest.

 

[Meraun]

here we go again. Im many Threads has it been so far? i lost count.

For the record, by buying a Game in EA, your are by no means any kind of Investor or have any right on any Vote wahtsoever.

you bought Early Acess to game not finished yet. And tahts it.

 

[E.M.Baguette]

here we go again. Im many Threads has it been so far? i lost count.

For the record, by buying a Game in EA, your are by no means any kind of Investor or have any right on any Vote wahtsoever.

you bought Early Acess to game not finished yet. And tahts it.

+1

 

[voronius]

here we go again. Im many Threads has it been so far? i lost count.

For the record, by buying a Game in EA, your are by no means any kind of Investor or have any right on any Vote wahtsoever.

you bought Early Acess to game not finished yet. And tahts it.

Who wants to buy and unfinished thing just like that without any control on it ?
If that the case at some point early access will make no more money cause people will learn.
You're sayin it like it's a good thing, btw . You were proly smarter not to fall for the early access trick, right ?
What's so bad in asking for honesty before doing business ?

 

[KucukEniste]

Who wants to buy and unfinished thing just like that without any control on it ?

All the control you will have in a early acces games is Accessing the game early. Thats why people are skeptical to EA games .How hard is to understand it? Its in the name!

 

[voronius]

All the control you will have in a early acces games is Accessing the game early. Thats why people are skeptical to EA games .How hard is to understand it? Its in the name!

You're right mate, no more EA for me from now on.

 

[KucukEniste]

You're right mate, no more EA for me from now on.

You are welcome. I'm glad i helped.

 

[Revverie]

This one was pretty quick, you can see the rise and fall within the first page im amazed

 

[Sidhwen_Khorest]

should have went with the "Earliest Access" method that Digital Devolver championed, then we could have been having these threads years ago!

 

[black_bulldog]

You're right mate, no more EA for me from now on.

You have buyers remorse it happens a lot these days. Buy with your head not your heart. I'm going to paraphrase Total Biscuit - Never spend money on EA games you're afraid to part with.
Personally I've already got over 300 hours in the game at 60$ that's more than enough value in many people's eyes. But I know even if they just fix bugs and do some balancing passes that the modding community will bring the game to the next level.

 

[Brodie]

Personally I've already got over 300 hours in the game at 60$ that's more than enough value in many people's eyes. But I know even if they just fix bugs and do some balancing passes that the modding community will bring the game to the next level.

More than 20 hours in a 60$ game is more than a luxury these days. I don't understand people not recommending a game that has brought more than 100 hours of challenge and fun. It is an early access, an unfinished experience, if you want to help other potential players putting a thumb down with the argument that the game is not finished does not help at all as we all now that it is not finished as it is an early access.

Usually (not always happens) Early Access games get feedback from the people playing to enhance the experience and give the players a game closer to the game they want. If you are following the (not so frequent) devs communications they are listening to the feedback and taking steps in the right direction.

There are, of course, constructive feedback that deserves to be considered and lots (LOTS) of destructive, selfish, non-sense feedback that usually prevents the devs to consider the best suggestions.

 

[Delinard]

here we go again. Im many Threads has it been so far? i lost count.

For the record, by buying a Game in EA, your are by no means any kind of Investor or have any right on any Vote wahtsoever.

you bought Early Acess to game not finished yet. And tahts it.

We need a long worded copypasta for these posts

 

[Abhrogash]

And they (the developers) should stick to those pages (the plan) and those pages should not be modified without the investors consent.

It's not that easy, how detailed you think this plan should be? they can say "game will include Kingdom management", but what does that mean? do you want a complete list of every single feature linked to it? that means it takes a lot of time to write everything down for the public and increases the chances that something, or a lot of things, will have to change (because the devs realize it's too complex, not fun, not balanced, or otherwise worsen the game)

And second part of the thing is that for the parts where community can vote not all people votes should be equal.

Depending on the level of detailof the plan that's either useless or a recipe for disaster. It would be extremely time consuming and would result in more toxicity, arguing and would not help the game at all.

And there's no need for this voting: you can already give your feedback to the devs in this forums, if a lot of people say the same thing be sure the devs will hear and will try to do what they can to improve the game.

 

[Nakh]

Having some idea of developer plans would be nice. Having roadmap would be excellent. Having roadmap with timeline on milestones would be perfect.

Currently I have no idea about how developers imagine finished product. What features will be included, what discarded. Absolutely no idea, how long they expect to work until game will be in full release state.

 

[takatoo]

And second part of the thing is that for the parts where community can vote not all people votes should be equal.

I believe it was the dev of Path of Exile who once said that 75% of forum posts are made by the top 0.5% of players. Like in any referendum, the results are useless unless 30% of EA backers cast a vote.

And they (the developers) should stick to those pages (the plan) and those pages should not be modified without the investors consent.

That's design by committee, which will not lead to a good result. The devs want our feedback to know what works and what is a fun game experience. Your opinion matters to Taleworlds, but not as much as it does to yourself.

And to all people who have issues with how this EA is run, do you know how little content the completed original Mount and Blade had?
I can't even remember what the vanilla versions of MnB and Warband were like, to the point where I almost made a forum post complaining about the Perisno features that were completely lacking from Bannerlord.

 

[voronius]

About sticking to the plan, is not design by comitee. If they say they will do n features and that certain things won't be present like certain AI cheating aspects and people buy the game expecting that then ofc they should stick to the features from the plan. I haven't said that us, the players, should make the plan. But advertised features should not disappear like that without peoples consent too. Ofc if there's a good reason for it the plan can change but players should know the reason too.

 

[AfLIcTeD]

About sticking to the plan, is not design by comitee. If they say they will do n features and that certain things won't be present like certain AI cheating aspects and people buy the game expecting that then ofc they should stick to the features from the plan. I haven't said that us, the players, should make the plan. But advertised features should not disappear like that without peoples consent too. Ofc if there's a good reason for it the plan can change but players should know the reason too.

So if the feature they planned turns out to be a bad one for whatever reason, they should keep it in anyway? Features come and go. Some work out, some don't. That's how game development works.
Then some loser comes on the forums and complains about said feature and TW are like "yeah we know, but we had to put it in because we planned it. Even though it didn't work out."
Game development isn't a democracy, you get no say. If they wanted to, they could ignore all feedback and do whatever they wanted. They owe you nothing.

 

[voronius]

That's the point for not everyone having and equal say in it. Some loser should not be able to come and say "we don't want that anymore ". You know.
Then you end up with the game not having what you expected when you paid for it. Those features are advertised features, from the plan i mean, and are reason you buy the game for (this and the brand thing cause you know they made Warband and you liked it). The point was that advertised features should not disappear just like that until the game evolves to be just balance patches with no added content.

 

[AfLIcTeD]

If said feature is a terrible idea, then yes it certainly should go. If said feature cannot be implemented properly, then yes it should go. No point in having a half assed feature.
I think you should read up on how game development works before you post any more.
Just an fyi, the game is still in development, it even warns you on the store page that things can change and what the game is now may no be the final product.

 

[voronius]

Yeah, if most features were terrible the we won't buy the game. And if most features can't be implemented then they are selling sand castles.