About Clans Wealth, in general

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Madeloc

Recruit
I was looking that loved Encyclopedia (which causes CTD these days btw lol) the other day, and looking the clans, there is the wealth which is in the available informations.
So i browsed a bit among all the clans (faction leaders clans and minor ones) to see the state of all those people :smile:

I noticed that the more the game advances, most of the clans are poor or very poor.

For minor clans it is literally bankruptcy !!! And not much better for the others.

So as the game is not finished, I don't know if devs plan to do something about this? is the AI leaders/clan economy managed?

At the moment I guess minor clans are relying on kingdomes wages? Maybe they could run caravans?

In a game where my character is like 33 years old, most of minor clans seem not to be able to run better than 20-30 armies. They seem finished off.

Your thoughts or knowledge about this.
 
I think the game needs some tweaking with the general money output of villages, towns and castles. Clans that have only 1-2 castles or cities are basically unable to have bigger armies.

Same goes for the player clan. In one campaign, I own 2 cities (all buildings level III and prosperity over 6000), 3 Castles, 11 villages and 6 workshops. On top of that, I receive about 1,2k from war reparations. The current army size that I can have is ~250 and the army size I can pay for is 0. After my main character died, I lost about 600k in a year. I fought a lot in this time but the fiefs are just not paying enough (and with that I mean they pay barely anything). Same goes for the NPCs. I am basically unable to maintain a bigger army without constantly fighting. It's so bad, that I cannot afford to have other parties in my clan (at clan level 5, nearly 6). I currently loose about 2k with cities and 1k with castles.

I think there are several solutions to this problem:

I. Reduce Garrison wages by 50-75%. Right now I pay about 15k in Garrison wages for 5 fiefs but they only make me about 10k money back.
II. Money you receive from a city = Prosperity * 0.8 or 1.2 (depending on the level of the buildings in the city)
III. The game automatically pays NPC clans at least 600 denars a day if they have no fiefs or just 1-2 castles(so they can have at least 100 man armies)
IV. Higher Workshop income (500 - 1000 denars/day)

I think lowering the garrison wages by ~50% and increasing the fief income by about ~20-30% should do the trick. For the NPCs TW should make sure that they have at least 600 denars per clan per day so that even small clans can afford to have 1-2 small parties.
 

LyonExodus

Recruit
Did a quick test to understand the range of the categories, they go as followed:

0 to 14K is Very Poor
15K to 49K is Poor
50K to 124K is Average
125K + is Rich

Most clans that owns settlements in my runs are under the "Poor" category that's anywhere between 15K to 50K and to be fair it's good enough to run 4 200 man parties on just loot, tributes and taxes.

As far as i know if a clan is "Broke" or we can say it's under the "Very Poor" category they receive daily gold from the wealthiest clans, so the "Average" and "Rich" ones. usually any kingdom as at least 2 or 3 in that category.

Mercenary clans were basically always broke, disbanding troops and feeding on looters. i think a bit of a gold cheat for them can do, or maybe give them a daily pay instead of influence related.
If Mercenaries clan are constantly fighting they don't encounter this problem, if you hire any just keep them in your army. Remember that losing a mercenary is not as bad as losing a companion or a vassal.

Are Broke clans a good thing?

I'd say yes, if they are broke they may look to join another kingdom (maybe yours) and will ask for less "Signing Fee" cause they are desperate.

After my last Run i noticed that despite the wealth of a clan if they owned at least one settlement they were very unlikely to leave their kingdoms. (1.6.2.)

If you are looking for Clans to add to your Kingdom you should seek the guys under, at least, "Poor" and with no Fiefs.
 
The AI doesn't know how to do economy or any proactive things whatsoever. It spawns and goes to recruit units and may randomly solve an issue when it enters fiefs doing this. When it has enough units it either is summoned to a army or determines a raid target. It may also fight bandits as it wanders around.
I never thinks "oh my clan doesn't have much money, I should get more and not raid because raid doesn't actually give me much money, when I have X money I can take time to raid." Further more there is some bugs causing AI parties to keep recruiting and tossing troops, wasting lots of money. They also don't have an notion of tending and limiting thier garrisons. TW has been working on them not wasting money over recruiting but I'm not sure if it's been solved completely yet. I say the AI parties/clans not actually doing anything (quests and actively hunting bandits) besides war is to blame and also is part of other problems such as player complaints that "AI comes back like a zombie army too soon!."
 
The AI doesn't know how to do economy or any proactive things whatsoever. It spawns and goes to recruit units and may randomly solve an issue when it enters fiefs doing this. When it has enough units it either is summoned to a army or determines a raid target. It may also fight bandits as it wanders around.
I never thinks "oh my clan doesn't have much money, I should get more and not raid because raid doesn't actually give me much money, when I have X money I can take time to raid." Further more there is some bugs causing AI parties to keep recruiting and tossing troops, wasting lots of money. They also don't have an notion of tending and limiting thier garrisons. TW has been working on them not wasting money over recruiting but I'm not sure if it's been solved completely yet. I say the AI parties/clans not actually doing anything (quests and actively hunting bandits) besides war is to blame and also is part of other problems such as player complaints that "AI comes back like a zombie army too soon!."
I agree 100%, they should be rewarded for tending to their fiefs, like that quest, revenue farming. Attend feasts (if they ever bring it back) and have the option to not join an army if certain conditions are not met, not just manpower. To offset not having them available when you need them, you could pay them money besides influence to cover the cost of a risky campaign and it is a nice way to share your wealth.
 
I think the game needs some tweaking with the general money output of villages, towns and castles. Clans that have only 1-2 castles or cities are basically unable to have bigger armies.

Same goes for the player clan. In one campaign, I own 2 cities (all buildings level III and prosperity over 6000), 3 Castles, 11 villages and 6 workshops. On top of that, I receive about 1,2k from war reparations. The current army size that I can have is ~250 and the army size I can pay for is 0. After my main character died, I lost about 600k in a year. I fought a lot in this time but the fiefs are just not paying enough (and with that I mean they pay barely anything). Same goes for the NPCs. I am basically unable to maintain a bigger army without constantly fighting. It's so bad, that I cannot afford to have other parties in my clan (at clan level 5, nearly 6). I currently loose about 2k with cities and 1k with castles.

I think there are several solutions to this problem:

I. Reduce Garrison wages by 50-75%. Right now I pay about 15k in Garrison wages for 5 fiefs but they only make me about 10k money back.
II. Money you receive from a city = Prosperity * 0.8 or 1.2 (depending on the level of the buildings in the city)
III. The game automatically pays NPC clans at least 600 denars a day if they have no fiefs or just 1-2 castles(so they can have at least 100 man armies)
IV. Higher Workshop income (500 - 1000 denars/day)

I think lowering the garrison wages by ~50% and increasing the fief income by about ~20-30% should do the trick. For the NPCs TW should make sure that they have at least 600 denars per clan per day so that even small clans can afford to have 1-2 small parties.
You are paying way too much for you garrisons 🤔
I do agree that they should be payed half their wages when they are on guard duty (It wouldn't be fair for them to get the same wages when the tavern is nearby, warm beds, and plenty of luxuries at arms reach when their compatriots are trucking along the steppes,desert,snow and are at higher risk in general 100% of the time)
Workshops, i don't know what would be ideal but i am all for less income per workshop and the only limit is one per city and no global limit. It would let the player manipulate his own kingdom economy if he so choses and give conquest an entire new incentive. Maybe lords of a town have their own workshops in their towns to help with their money issues instead of notables who don't seem to benefit from them at all. They would have a steward there if you want to buy it yourself and they would immediately own the next profitable workshop in town)
 

Madeloc

Recruit
I think the game needs some tweaking with the general money output of villages, towns and castles. Clans that have only 1-2 castles or cities are basically unable to have bigger armies.

Same goes for the player clan. In one campaign, I own 2 cities (all buildings level III and prosperity over 6000), 3 Castles, 11 villages and 6 workshops. On top of that, I receive about 1,2k from war reparations. The current army size that I can have is ~250 and the army size I can pay for is 0. After my main character died, I lost about 600k in a year. I fought a lot in this time but the fiefs are just not paying enough (and with that I mean they pay barely anything). Same goes for the NPCs. I am basically unable to maintain a bigger army without constantly fighting. It's so bad, that I cannot afford to have other parties in my clan (at clan level 5, nearly 6). I currently loose about 2k with cities and 1k with castles.

I think there are several solutions to this problem:

I. Reduce Garrison wages by 50-75%. Right now I pay about 15k in Garrison wages for 5 fiefs but they only make me about 10k money back.
II. Money you receive from a city = Prosperity * 0.8 or 1.2 (depending on the level of the buildings in the city)
III. The game automatically pays NPC clans at least 600 denars a day if they have no fiefs or just 1-2 castles(so they can have at least 100 man armies)
IV. Higher Workshop income (500 - 1000 denars/day)

I think lowering the garrison wages by ~50% and increasing the fief income by about ~20-30% should do the trick. For the NPCs TW should make sure that they have at least 600 denars per clan per day so that even small clans can afford to have 1-2 small parties.
There are ways to lower garrison wages through perks but you would need a character with much skill in many disciplines !
I built a perfect Governor with the Character Manager, even level 60 is not enough if you want all the governor perks. But I fear a normal character cannot reach that level of optimization, So you may not need ALL gov perks to have a decent governor, but a not too bad character though :wink:
For having played too, towns can be a good denar ressource, but castles do not - from what I saw - earn enough money to pay their own garrison's wages.
I haven't been till my own death lol, trying all the cultures :wink:
 
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