A versatile polearm?

[Carl]

I always wondered why they never put a halberd in M&B, since I started playing the first M&B(v0.8xx) I was always looking for a halberd at the shops as it would fit my play style perfectly for several reasons.

With the total of 3 new characters I made throughout my playing(some lost in formats... always forget to back those up) I always go for a Knight/Horse archer hybrid and obviously carrying a bow takes up 2 weapon slots so I have only 2 left for my melee setup. Now, since I almost always play on hardest setting(sometimes I set block to auto) carrying a shield is a must and a long polearm is my favorite type of weapon when on horseback, needless to say I am screwed should my steed fall or I am ambushed in towns/tavern drunks.

With my lvl 40 char its not such a big deal(It's fun kicking drunks to death lol) but recently I started a fresh char to enjoy those early game days where you need to watch every penny and can't solo a band of 20 sea raiders... till I get to lvl 20 or so then I import the old one. Anyway so my problem is that I need a polearm that has good thrust and swing damage, has decent reach and can be used with a shield, basically a halberd if there was one ingame.

At least there is the pole hammer(I think it's called war hammer ingame), it's great with 41 thrust and 41 swing with 'balanced' tag and around 120 reach, although it can't be used with shield but I can switch to shield only when in danger of heat seeking flying spears, but for some reason it cannot be used on horseback! I can see it as being awkward to control in real life, but if you can swing a long great axe on horseback with one hand ingame I don't see why you can't at least just thrust with the war hammer! You can even use the poleaxe on horseback its much longer and has a much bigger head than the war hammer! I don't get it, its like its done on purpose, maybe its a balance thing I don't know.

Anyway that's how it is and probably always will be so I was wondering if I could get some opinions from other players that like to use the lance/bow combo on horseback. I saw the Boar spear once in my current game and it was cracked so it had poor stats, is it any good in 'normal' and enhanced form?

 

[StinkyMcGirk]

Boar spears are terrible because they are currently bugged.  You can only thrust with them.

Other similarly bugged pole-arms are:

Pitchforks
Military Forks
Battle Forks

Okay, so you want a 2h pole-arm that works on the ground, and you can use on horseback to some extent?  There's a couple of options:

Balanced Hafted Blade [153 range variety] (Might be your best option, though it is heavily penalized on horseback)
Balanced Military Scythe (Probably the best option if you would rather use thrusting attacks on horseback, but have good ground presence as well)
Balanced Double-Sided Lance (Couchable, fast, can be used with a shield if you want, or if used 2h you have access to sideswings on the ground)
Balanced Long Awlpike (If you don't mind that this weapon cannot be swung, this is a fantastic option for both horse combat and on the ground)
Balanced Glaive (Somewhat poor on horseback)
Balanced Poleaxe (Very poor on horseback, excellent on the ground)
Heavy Great Long Bardiche (Pretty horrible on horseback, excellent on the ground)
Balanced Warspear (really quite balanced, though not fantastic at anything... lowish damage)

So... my vote goes towards the hafted blade.  It doesn't pierce on horseback, but I figure you have piercing damage covered by your bow for the heavier targets.  Oh.. and that assumes your setup is bow 2x arrows + pole-arm.  If you're using a shield for sure, then go with the warspear.  It doesn't get penalized for using with a shield, it's fast, and you can use it 2h without the shield to gain access to the full range of side swings and such.

 

[CriticallyAshamed]

Seconding Long Awl Pike. I regularly roll with one because the sound it makes upon impaling people satisfies me. I also carry a bow and arrows like you, which always made those "lol he's got a spear let's go and stand in front of him so he can't do anything" situations kinda annoying. But, as it turns out, the Awl Pike is really nice to swing over your head when you do an Up attack. Knocks people unconcscious too if that means anything for you.

 

[Carl]

Boar spears are terrible because they are currently bugged.  You can only thrust with them.

Other similarly bugged pole-arms are:

Pitchforks
Military Forks
Battle Forks

I see, so they only have the over head swing? I remember using the battle fork with my lvl 40 and was going to give it a go with my low lvl char.

Okay, so you want a 2h pole-arm that works on the ground, and you can use on horseback to some extent?  There's a couple of options:

Balanced Hafted Blade [153 range variety] (Might be your best option, though it is heavily penalized on horseback)
Balanced Military Scythe (Probably the best option if you would rather use thrusting attacks on horseback, but have good ground presence as well)
Balanced Double-Sided Lance (Couchable, fast, can be used with a shield if you want, or if used 2h you have access to sideswings on the ground)
Balanced Long Awlpike (If you don't mind that this weapon cannot be swung, this is a fantastic option for both horse combat and on the ground)
Balanced Glaive (Somewhat poor on horseback)
Balanced Poleaxe (Very poor on horseback, excellent on the ground)
Heavy Great Long Bardiche (Pretty horrible on horseback, excellent on the ground)
Balanced Warspear (really quite balanced, though not fantastic at anything... lowish damage)

I considered the Hafted Blade but if I remember correctly it had poor thrust damage and you said it cant even thrust on horseback?
I used the Military Scythe before but again with my high lvl char, and it has 25p 36c according to the wiki, sounds good will try it out.
The Double-Sided Lance has low swing damage right? It's swing damage is not listed in the wiki, will check ingame.
Long Awlpike, my second fav polearm after the Heavy Lance, I used it with my low lvl char but it was not so good on foot for me, esp. when being mobbed by several shield wielders, its like bashing on a tank with a broomstick.
Glaive, was going to try that out but looks so damn crappy, maybe its the game model or the weapon design itself, it looks like a peasant's weapon. But it has good stats, maybe I will try it out.
Poleaxe and Long Bardiche, yeah useless on horseback.
Warspear seems a decent alternative too.

So... my vote goes towards the hafted blade.  It doesn't pierce on horseback, but I figure you have piercing damage covered by your bow for the heavier targets.  Oh.. and that assumes your setup is bow 2x arrows + pole-arm.  If you're using a shield for sure, then go with the warspear.  It doesn't get penalized for using with a shield, it's fast, and you can use it 2h without the shield to gain access to the full range of side swings and such.

I like its ability to swing on horse but I prefer the thrust, easier to aim and pierce is best vs armour.
Looking at the specs on wiki the Glaive and Military Scythe seem like my best options but they look so peasanty.
Anyway thanks for the tips.

 

[Carl]

Seconding Long Awl Pike. I regularly roll with one because the sound it makes upon impaling people satisfies me. I also carry a bow and arrows like you, which always made those "lol he's got a spear let's go and stand in front of him so he can't do anything" situations kinda annoying. But, as it turns out, the Awl Pike is really nice to swing over your head when you do an Up attack. Knocks people unconcscious too if that means anything for you.

Yeah I love it to, I think it has the highest thrust damage of all polearms but I did not have much success with it on foot, especially in confined spaces and when the enemy has shields. Damn the war hammer would be perfect with 41b damage... who cares if they have shields!

 

[StinkyMcGirk]

I see, so they only have the over head swing? I remember using the battle fork with my lvl 40 and was going to give it a go with my low lvl char.

They are bugged in that they only have the thrust.  No over-head swing, no side swings.  I'm sure they were supposed to have over-head swings because they have a listed damage for those kinds of attacks.  An example of thrusting only pole-arms, great lances, only lists thrusting damage.  Battle forks are pretty good with a shield because they don't receive the penalty for being used with a shield.  I didn't list that option because if you get swarmed up close, you just don't have any easy options with it.

One thing you might try:  Thrusting attacks have to be at a certain point in their animation before they deal damage, which is well known.  What isn't widely known, is that if you turn the weapon away from the designated target until it reaches that point in the animation, then quickly turn the weapon back to the target, you are able to deal damage at close range with thrusting attacks.  It's a little trick I figured out when I had my ass handed to me in multiplayer by a guy with a pike at close range.  I thought once I got under the range of his pike, all I had to do was spam attacks and avoid kicks - not so... not so...

 

[Carl]

They are bugged in that they only have the thrust.  No over-head...

Not even over head? Strange, I can't say for sure but I thought the Battle Fork could be swung. They really need to revise the weapon stats and restrictions, I tried the hafted blade and it can swing on horseback but not thrust?!

Yes I read about that trick somewhere on this forum possibly in the mp section, don't remember exactly. I used it in mp but to be honest I had forgotten all about it! Still hard to poke 5 shield wielding enemies mobbing you.

 

[Aeon221]

The glaive is a godly weapon of asskicking. Back when I played regularly I tended to go mounted with a fast sword or pick, a lance, a glaive and a shield. It's a vicious melee only setup that lets you kick a whole lot of butt in a variety of situations.

In siege defense situations I tended to go with a crossbow, shield and spiked staff. I'd only use the shield for cover while looking over the ramparts for approaching enemies, otherwise I tended to use the staff for some brutal blunt weapon beatdown. If you've ever used it in MP, you'll know just how vicious a weapon this is -- long enough to outrange most melee weapons, faster than most stuff that outranges you, with KD chance as a delicious bonus. Plus, you can use it with a shield if the situation gets really dire! An all around excellent choice. 

In MP, again back when I played (probably around patch 1.15), I also usually went with a glaive when given the option. The sheer flexibility of it was astounding.

Glaives are great because their cut damage swing is obscene, their speed is very good (especially considering the size!) and the range is sufficient to poke horses in the face (causing a rear and giving you time to go to town on them or the rider) before you can get hit with most lances.

War Spears are another fun one, often discounted due to the low damage. However, the speed, range and the availability of both blunt and pierce make it an effective choice -- especially at lower levels! 

The bardiche is another excellent choice, although checking the modfiles apparently the thrust damage is set to zero? This seems to be a bug!

Also, don't discount the voulge. The slow speed makes it a challenging choice, but in siege defense situations its length is a brilliant advantage.

My final suggestion is the bastard sword. This is a well rounded weapon that can find a place in practically every loadout. In patch 1.15 it was a well liked dueling weapon due to the excellent combination of speed, length and damage. If you play with manual block on -- I always do personally, I feel autoblock really takes away from the game -- this weapon is a great go to option.

 

[RobsonScerri]

they never included a morning star or flail either!

 

[Aeon221]

["morningstar",        "Morningstar", [("mace_morningstar_new",0)], itp_crush_through|itp_type_two_handed_wpn|itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_wooden_parry|itp_unbalanced, itc_morningstar|itcf_carry_axe_left_hip,
305 , weight(4.5)|difficulty(13)|spd_rtng(95) | weapon_length(85)|swing_damage(38 , pierce) | thrust_damage(0 ,  pierce),imodbits_mace ],

I didn't like the morningstar in 1.15 -- I remember it being much slower -- but the weapon appears much improved in 1.32. Pierce isn't as great as blunt in my opinion, but crush is a devastating option. Even though this weapon is unbalanced, it will tear enemies a new bunghole in short order. However, the diminutive size really keeps it sequestered in foot combat, and the high strength req is a definite annoyance.

 

[Carl]

The glaive is a godly weapon of asskicking. Back when...

Yes the Glaive and Military Scythe seem to fit my needs best but I really do not like the way they look.
The Voulge and Bardiche are useless on horseback, low thrust damage, short and slow. I looted a Voulge in my current game and although brutal on foot, it is simply useless on horseback, gave it to a companion... back to Heavy Lance.
I like the Bastard Sword but as I said I want a longer polearm, I prefer polearms on horseback as I kill much faster with one, I run around zigzagging from foe to foe poking them, with the horse's speed the damage is insane and combine that with pierce damage its just the best vs armour.

You say the Spiked Staff is good? I saw it at a shop and the stats seem good but the thrust is blunt as well, not sure how well it would perform on horseback.
I use the Bastard Sword somethimes but remember that I am looking for a weapon that is a decent substitute for a lance yet can hold its own if I should be caught without my horse.

When I don't take the bow into battle I usually put a Morning Star in the free slots, sometimes a Sword of War or some other giant 2h just for fun, so I have the lance, shield and a good 1h for when/if I get dehorsed. But I like using the bow and its super effective in the game(way too overpowered)

 

[Thundertrod]

The blanced Iron staff is really good.
weight 2.0 ( very light)
Swing 28b = to 42c on armer 22.4c on bare skin
Thrust 29b = 43.5c on armer 23.2c on bare skin
reach 140
speed 100

I can take dowen nord warriors reliably with one hit, rarly a nord vetren avage dammage with 10 str 3 power strike 160skill is 45

 

[Carl]

Swing 28b = to 42c on armer 22.4c on bare skin
Thrust 29b = 43.5c on armer 23.2c on bare skin

Interesting, where did you get that data, is it reliable? I wonder how they compare to pierce damage.

 

[Thundertrod]

This is right from the native .ini

# You can modify the damage system by editing the following values:
# The first three values determine the amount which will be directly subtracted from damage due to armor.
# The next three values determine the percentage reduction from the damage.

armor_soak_factor_against_cut      = 0.8
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt    = 0.5

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut      = 1.0
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 0.5
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt    = 0.75

 

[Felonious]

This is right from the native .ini

# You can modify the damage system by editing the following values:
# The first three values determine the amount which will be directly subtracted from damage due to armor.
# The next three values determine the percentage reduction from the damage.

armor_soak_factor_against_cut      = 0.8
armor_soak_factor_against_pierce    = 0.65
armor_soak_factor_against_blunt    = 0.5

armor_reduction_factor_against_cut      = 1.0
armor_reduction_factor_against_pierce    = 0.5
armor_reduction_factor_against_blunt    = 0.75

Soak factor is basically how much damage is subtracted from the attack, where as armour reduction is a percentage of how much the damage is reduced.

Blunt's best for low damage and fast weapons, as it gets past the initial subtraction lightly, but for a high damage weapon you'll want pierce, as as the damage goes up the percentage reduction becomes greater than the blank subtraction

 

[Carl]

This is right from the native .ini

I see, thanks for the info.

Soak factor is basically how much...

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Pahosee]

Heavy Great Long Bardiche +1

if you do not ride horse , you can use it

and it is very good to use it to defend on enemy's siege

very fast attacking speed with high damage, and also gives bonus against with shield

so just madly spam downward cut, even you just break their shields, you minions can just finish them off

 

[Carl]

Heavy Great Long Bardiche +1

Yes there are several polearms that are good on foot, but the question was if there is a polearm that can be used like a lance on horseback but is good enough to fight with in case you are caught off your horse. I have come to the conclusion there is no particular weapon that fits those criteria good enough, mostly due to reach, although the Glaive and Military Scythe seem to come close to what I need.

 

[RalliX]

The Double-sided lance used to be only able to thrust. (You can thank my suggestion and Nijis for changing that.)
Sadly, it's range is quite small, so It's almost useless as a couching weapon probably.

Edit: I'm a master knigget, cool.