A Treatise on the Folly of Melee FF

[Styo]

Worst problem with FF is for those of us who have notifications turned off. When FF is on I have no idea if the guy I just headshotted was on my team or not.
Admittedly, since I can't be kicked or banned I don't really care either

Win.

 

[Thornmisfor]

Melee FF is good. If anything it is a boon to your team, and a disadvantage to others. Go practice some more teamwork.

 

[Faranox]

Melee FF is good. If anything it is a boon to your team, and a disadvantage to others. Go practice some more teamwork.

The problem with your statement is that irrelevant to how much team work an individual practices, other players that they don't practice with won't know how to work with them.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Melee FF is good. If anything it is a boon to your team, and a disadvantage to others. Go practice some more teamwork.

Yeah, that's pretty flawed logic.

 

[Setton]

I'm with the opening post on this.

I know some people like melee FF because it's 'more realistic' but I don't understand why you should magically take damage by hitting a teammate. Unless we're just into the realms of fantasy now. If melee FF needs to be a feature then it shouldn't be reflective. I've always liked M&B for its realism. It's pretty much the only game out there with realistic medieval combat. I'd just hate to see it lose that in Warband.

 

[kingofnoobia]

Since today about half of the hits I took in melee combat were FF, and that I constantly have to restrain myself of attacking because of some idiot charging in on his horse in front of my bardiche, I start to agree more and more with the OP .

I was not really in favour of melee FF before it started to work negatively against me. Bounce off + flinch is fair enough. For clanwars: they can put it all the way on 100% realistic, but usually the actions in a non-clan game aren't exactly carefully planned...

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Both of you make a somewhat flawed assumption in saying that it IS realistic in the first place.  I thought I addressed that pretty clearly in my first post.

 

[Orion]

Well, part of the reason it seems popular is that those who dislike it (like myself) are sitting out beta-testing until it is removed.

Why should it be removed when it can just be disabled on the server? The whole system can be customized to your liking, so why must those who actually like it have to part with it just to please those who don't? Sorry, but your little protest doesn't mean very much. All I can say is find a server without it or get the server files from Armagan and make your own.

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

Well, part of the reason it seems popular is that those who dislike it (like myself) are sitting out beta-testing until it is removed.

Why should it be removed when it can just be disabled on the server? The whole system can be customized to your liking, so why must those who actually like it have to part with it just to please those who don't? Sorry, but your little protest doesn't mean very much. All I can say is find a server without it or get the server files from Armagan and make your own.

I agree with your sentiment, Marnid, but there is one problem.  Those of us who prefer normal settings don't actually have the choice of servers that we should.  We have to either opt for DM/TDM gameplay, or deal with the FF elsewhere.  And sometimes even that gets taken away from us, like last night when one of the admins (I think it was Styo) switched TDM to FF settings.  I don't think it's right that none of the other game types cater to us.  Either FnD or Battle should have FF, but not both.  It's very unfair.

 

[Wild Bill Kelso]

I feel there should be some form of FF, be that the stun feature, reflective or "traditional".  The reason, it adds another level to combat when choosing your weapons.  Long shafted weapons are powerful, but with FF have to be used with caution when engaging in groups, or the fighter can switche to a short range weapon.  With no FF you lose this aspect of gameplay, which is my opinion is not good.  With FF you gain the benefit of group cohesiveness of shorter weapons/shield combination as they can be used more safely than can two handed weapons. 

 

[ScientiaExcelsa]

I don't think you really gain any cohesiveness, rather, cohesiveness is lost.  You can't argue that FF has zero negative effect on team play in groups.

Before its advent, I enjoyed group fighting more.  I loved dancing around my enemies, maneuvering them so that only one or two could engage me at a time.  That aspect of combat is gone, and what has replaced it is far less rewarding to me.  With a smaller punishment for hitting a teammate, (Stun, that is, though merely bouncing off works for me) there is greater incentive to use swarm tactics, and the depth of both worlds is combined.  No elements of gameplay are sacrificed, that way.

 

[Orion]

Those of us who prefer normal settings don't actually have the choice of servers that we should.

Short-term problem. More servers will come, and some of them might be yours to do with what you will. The game shouldn't change because of a temporary shortage of servers that cater to specific niches.

In any case, as Wild Bill stated, the long-hafted weapons are powerful but you have to be careful. They aren't made to be used in groups, as they take considerable room to swing. And when I say they aren't made to be used in groups, I mean that in a historical sense. You wouldn't see a tight formation of halberdiers unless they were using their halberds more as pikes to stop a cavalry charge. Once it got to the point where combatants were engaging each other in close quarters, you wouldn't be making street-sweeper swings. Thrusts and jabs are most effective up close.

As I've said before, don't refuse to adapt to the game and then expect the game to adapt to you.

 

[Berserker Pride]

How would you know what percentage of players even want this.  The great majority of people in the "Isn't Melee FF So Awesome!" thread said in the poll that they wanted it to be a server option.  Only twenty hardcore fans of it said that they wanted it to be default.  Most of those twenty are admins.  And as we have said before there aren't any servers for battle or F&D without melee ff.  So of course the players on the game right now like it.  The ones who don't have nowhere to play without and and simply don't bother to play at all.  So don't get all condescending about your niche gameplay.

 

[Orion]

Who's condescending? First one thread where I'm insulted for being American and now I'm a horrible aggressor hating on people who don't like melee FF? What the **** is your problem, mate?

I realize the popular game modes are being run on servers with melee FF, but every time I've gone to a server without it players have asked for it to be turned on with at least 50%. You might not be paying attention to what players are saying in-game, but as an admin it's my responsibility to do so and I've only ever seen support for it being turned on.

Condescending. For ****s sake.

 

[Alec{zacool}]

My opinion on this matter: There should be 2 US battle servers. One for FF, and one for no FF.

Another idea would to add it as a poll vote. Being able to customise FF options with a poll would be good aswell.

 

[kingofnoobia]

Both of you make a somewhat flawed assumption in saying that it IS realistic in the first place.  I thought I addressed that pretty clearly in my first post.

True, but there are many who will still call full FF most realistic, no matter how well you argument your PoV.

 

[WhichDoctor]

I find this hole thing very odd.

I used to play a UT 2004 mod where team play was essential and FF was compulsory and arguably integral to gameplay. But there were always people on the forums asking for a way to tern it off. It was only because the designers stood there ground that it was still in. Now I find myself in a game arguably less suited to FF and there are people falling over themselves to have it 

Personally I would like a choice, I do see the advantages to FF or friendly stab as I feel it should be called here  . But it would be nice to have an opportunity to play without it. Not having FS makes for much more relaxed gameplay and there really are few things more irritating than getting killed before you've even seen the enemy because you accidentally stepped in front of a couched lance. I do also like playing with it if I'm in the right mood. It does make you think more and makes fighting in groups quite interesting but really is it so universally popular that it has to be on every server all the time?

 

[Plazek]

The problem is that it is on almost all the servers, this IS a problem because melee FF is not the default only an option. If melee FF is always on then it will skew the feedback and undermine the beta test. Just like if all the servers were DM or all the servers only let you play Swads vs Rhods. To test the game properly we need to have a variety of servers all using different settings in all combinations.

The game should not change just because a lot of Warband players are suffering from what I like to call "new toy syndrome".

I think today I got killed by people teamkilling me in melee almost as much as by the enemy. Even when attacking trebuchet/catapult people spazzed out and tk'd me.

PS
I disagree that playing without melee FF is a "specific niche" it is the deafult!

 

[Styo]

Thats why I said to make 1 server autoblock and Melee FF off for beginers.

Half of the beta testers are skilled now so we need to test and find ways to keep us in the game. Otherwise we get skillfull then the game grows old then bye bye.

 

[Marin Peace Bringer]

I think the OP has good points in it, but i really don't care, i think melee FF is good, and bad.
It does make it harder (but i like that) when fighting in groups, i think it adds a certain, i don't know, feel to it (cant really explain it.)
I think that with melee FF it adds a nice touch when fighting in formation, you can only thrust or use overhead attacks, except on the flanks, they can use left/right swing.
Any way, i think the best thing to do is make it a server side option, that way people who want it can have it, and people who don't want it don't have to have it, i think that it is a good idea to have this be for most things, because, on one hand people say they don't want it, while others say they do, so just give them the option to have/not have, it and every one is happy. (unless all theses people are playing on the same server, then things might get nasty  )