PinCussion
Could say a knight or mercenary put on his suit of armor by himself or did he allways need assistance?
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Untitled. said:
the parts rest on the arming jack/doublet. They're suspended from those laces you see hanging off them.
Amman d Stazia
Master Knight
They couldn't easily, because so many straps and buckles were in paces hard to reach with one hand, let alone the two that were required to tighten and fasten correctly. See illustrations from matmohair.
The weight s nothing.
The weight s nothing.
The weight of Plate armor is almost the same if not less than a Modern Soldier carries on his back. (~100 pounds) It isn't hard to distribute it around the body then move around. Look at firemen who wear 125 pounds of gear which is heavier than both plate and modern soldiers and they are still quite maneuverable and can lift heavy things (such as humans)
Amman d Stazia
Master Knight
A mid thigh, elbow hauberk might weigh 20-25 pounds (8-11 kg) and alone the B.A worn by a firefighter weighs that much.
Ok nobody is naked under their mail, but you get the point ? Mail plus padding plus boots and helm, probably comes in at about the same as BA plus overalls plus fire retardant overcoat plus boots plus helmet plus waterproof over pants. And optional chemsuit for a kg or two more....
I can tell you from personal experience that it ins possible to do cartwheels in that (chemsuit &BA)
Ok nobody is naked under their mail, but you get the point ? Mail plus padding plus boots and helm, probably comes in at about the same as BA plus overalls plus fire retardant overcoat plus boots plus helmet plus waterproof over pants. And optional chemsuit for a kg or two more....
I can tell you from personal experience that it ins possible to do cartwheels in that (chemsuit &BA)
45kg sounds like a lot of weight anyway. My gear weighs anything from 17 to 23kg, and it's not like I'll be wearing a backpack all the time. Granted, no bulletproof vest, but still. Add 20kg on your shoulder and marching 25km becomes an insurmountable task. 
The arming jacket looks pretty nifty though. Thanks for the insights.
The arming jacket looks pretty nifty though. Thanks for the insights.
From my personal experience through reenactment, whilst a good, stout belt can help with the weight of a maille shirt, you will still find quite a bit of weight still rests upon the shoulders. This can be quite uncomfortable when you're not used to it. Sadly I never got to the point where I was particularly used to it. I've always prefered not to wear armour for reenacting because a) I'm not particularly strong in my upper body and b) I'm a lazy sod. Putting on and taking off armour takes time and effort. It's bad enough that as a pikeman I have to wear a morion helmet. Bloody heavy thing.Untitled. said:
Ililsa
Master Knight
A maille haubergeon by itself is heavy as hell, so most men in plate armour would just use maille voiders to cover the weak points in their plate, mostly the armpits, groin and upper thighs.
The weight of the plate is held pretty close to the body and evenly distributed, so it's not restrictive or intolerably heavy, nor should it be uncomfortable if properly fitted. The main concern of any armour is how much added weight you're swinging around and how quickly you tire from it, a knight should be able to last a while, but bear in mind that fitter men today don't last particularly long fighting in a pair of shorts and padded gloves.
Whether someone could put an entire suit on themselves, I'm a little unsure. I've definitely seen people making good progress on their own plate, but given that it's not really my area, I'd guess just looking at the stuff that areas like the chest, shoulders and maybe upper arms are going to be hard if not impossible to do by yourself.
A lot of guys, and I plan to do this myself when I get some maille, add extra ties across the biceps to take more weight off and keep the maille closer to their bodies. I personally think it's fair to say it was done historically, there's contemporary images that show extra leather ties and some that don't. My theory is that either artists didn't know about it being done or wanted to keep the idealised armoured figure unmolested by bloused maille hanging over every limb.
The weight of the plate is held pretty close to the body and evenly distributed, so it's not restrictive or intolerably heavy, nor should it be uncomfortable if properly fitted. The main concern of any armour is how much added weight you're swinging around and how quickly you tire from it, a knight should be able to last a while, but bear in mind that fitter men today don't last particularly long fighting in a pair of shorts and padded gloves.
Whether someone could put an entire suit on themselves, I'm a little unsure. I've definitely seen people making good progress on their own plate, but given that it's not really my area, I'd guess just looking at the stuff that areas like the chest, shoulders and maybe upper arms are going to be hard if not impossible to do by yourself.
rapier17 said:
A lot of guys, and I plan to do this myself when I get some maille, add extra ties across the biceps to take more weight off and keep the maille closer to their bodies. I personally think it's fair to say it was done historically, there's contemporary images that show extra leather ties and some that don't. My theory is that either artists didn't know about it being done or wanted to keep the idealised armoured figure unmolested by bloused maille hanging over every limb.
That is something I've seen people do, either with leather or tablet-weave. Fortunately the maille haubergeon I wore was quite close fitting for my slender build, with short sleeves, and didn't need anything more than a belt. Worst problem I had with it was getting my hair caught in the rings (it was neck length at the time).
Skinny student nerd!
I have been able to put on my armor myself, but the only plate armor I wear is on the limbs (and that can take practice and time). I have a feeling any torso plate might require the help of someone else. Needless to say, the gauntlets go on last.
As for historical, I don't think maille required help putting on and on some level I question if even plate did. However, from a status standpoint, those who could afford such armor had a servant who could do the work for them, so why not? (After all, they could stand there in a dignified manner while it was being done).
As for historical, I don't think maille required help putting on and on some level I question if even plate did. However, from a status standpoint, those who could afford such armor had a servant who could do the work for them, so why not? (After all, they could stand there in a dignified manner while it was being done).
Regarding the weight discussion:
Pretty cool demonstration.
Pretty cool demonstration.
Whilst I remember, just as an aside, the following is an absolutely cracking lecture about misconceptions of plate harnesses, presented by Dirk H. Breiding of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.
It does mention about movement in armour, but the whole lecture is well worth watching if you have 50 minutes spare.
It does mention about movement in armour, but the whole lecture is well worth watching if you have 50 minutes spare.
It's worth watching at least for the archival footage, when they're having fun with actual armours. Although if you hang around Sage's Guild for some time or are generally into the topic, the guy mainly speaks about obvious things.
