SP Fantasy A Song of Ice and Fire Mod (moved to MBX)

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Sparehawk said:
I've thinked a lot about troops' trees tweaking, and wanna to seek your advice about some my ideas.

IMHO, at the moment of game start, not each of Seven Kingdoms have it's own culture. I should say, that only Dorne, Iron Isles and North have own cultures. All other kingdoms share the common westeross culture and main difference in their armies determined mainly by their lords' politics, not by some cultural traditions.
So, it seems to be quite logical to forsake separate unit trees for each kingdom and instead to have a set of basic troops types like militia, mercenaries, knights etc.
Inside of each basic type will be a small (2-4 tiers) upgrade tree, and each kingdom will have an army based on some unique set of that basic types.

For example...
  • Basic militia:
    • Peasant. Base unit. Worst leather armor, clubs, knives and pitchforks.
      Upgradeable to spearman or archer.
    • Spearman. Better leather armor, spear, decent combat skills.
      Upgradeable to swordsman or light horseman.
    • Archer. Better leather armor, basic bow, decent combat skills.
      Upgradeable to ranger or crossbowman.
    • Swordsman. Mail armor, shield, sword, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to plate swordsman.
    • Light horseman. Good leather armor, pike, longsword, horse, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to heavy horseman.
    • Ranger. Good leather armor, longbow, good combat skills.
    • Crossbowman. Good leather armor, crossbow, good combat skills.
    • Plate swordsman. Basic plate armor, sword or mace, shield, good combat skills.
    • Heavy horseman. Mail armor, pike, longsword, horse, good combat skills.
  • Basic knights:
    • Squire. Good leather armor, sword or mace, shield, low combat skills.
      Upgradeable to hedge knight or knight.
    • Hedge Knight. Decent  plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, good combat skills. Not so expensive.
      Upgradeable to veteran hedge knight.
    • Knight. Good plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, good combat skills. Quite expensive.
      Upgradeable to champion.
    • Veteran Hedge Knight. Good plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, good combat skills. Not so expensive.
    • Champion. Better plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, better combat skills. Very expensive.
  • Northern militia:
    • Hunter. Base unit. Worst leather armor, crude bow, axe.
      Upgradeable to axeman or archer(basic militia).
    • Axeman. Good leather armor, axe.
      Upgradeable to veteran axeman or light horseman(basic militia).
    • Veteran axeman. Good mail armor, axe.
      Upgradeable to man-at-arms.
    • Man-at-arms. Best mail armor, axe, best combat skills.
  • Dornish militia:
    • Dornish spearman. Base unit. Worst leather armor, throwing spears, pike, worst combat skills.
      Upgradeable to veteran spearman or archer(basic militia).
    • Veteran spearman. Good leather armor, throwing spears, pike, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to dornish horseman or mounted archer.
    • Dornish horseman. Good mail armor, throwing spears, light lance, longsword, horse, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to heavy horseman(basic militia).
    • Mounted archer. Best leather armor, shortbow, horse, excellent combat skills.
      Upgradeable to veteran mounted archer.
    • Veteran mounted archer. Good mail armor. best shortbow, horse, extraordinary combat skills.
  • Iron Isles militia:
    • Сabin boy. Base unit. Worst leather or even cloth armor, knife or axe.
      Upgradeable to sailor.
    • Sailor. Cheap mail armor, sword or axe.
      Upgradeable to raider.
    • Raider. Decent mail armor, sword or axe.
      Upgradeable to manhunter or finger dancer.
    • Manhunter. Good mail armor, sword or axe, cheap horse.
    • Finger dancer. Good mail armor, throwing axes.
  • Iron Isles nobility:
    • Ironman Noble. Good mail armor, sword or axe, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to captain or drowned man.
    • Captain. Plate armor, sword or axe, better combat skills.
    • Drowned man. Cloth armor, sword or axe, extraordinary combat skills, ironflash max.

So, Starks army will have northern militia and basic knights without hedge knights. Lannisters - basic militia and basic knights with main focus on hedge knights. Tyrells - the same, but with focus on true knights. Etc.

This is only an example, I haven't spent any time to balancing at all.

How do you think, is this idea usable, or it's better to leave troops' trees as they are?

Seems cool!
I would like to suggest (as I did before) to increase the speed rating of polearms smaller 110~115 and longer 100~105 exeption of the great lance(IMO it should be only able to couch and not to thrust) this will balance thing between Infantry and Cavalary.
 
I registered just to say that this mod is terrific. I've been totally hooked to Song of Ice and Fire since I first laid my hands on it, and this game is just perfect for a Westeros-themed mod!
Triple hurrah to Sparehawk!

I'll try to give some constructive input also :smile:
1) Noticed that according to the in-game compass, the Wall is to the south while Dorne is up North. :???: Not a big deal, but if there is an easy fix, it should be fixed :smile:
2) Face models are really well done. Sole exception is Gendry, who should really not be blonde. And give him a helm as well  :wink:
3) In North, less than 1/10 of armored horsemen were actually knights, since most of them did not recognize the Seven, so I propose renaming Stark Knights into Northern Heavy Horsemen or smth... Other than that, Northern troop tree is good as is.
4) I second that Ironmen should use even less cavalry. Space was too precious on a longboat to ferry many horses around. Maybe really only give Reavers a chance of horse?
5) If possible, Lannister army should be made mercenary-heavy somehow. I also support idea that mercenaries remain a separate troop tree, expensive and hireable from taverns.
6) Basic militia troop tree from Sparehawk is good, just exclude plate swordsmen and heavy horsemen.
7) Basic knights troop tree is ok also... only that some visual difference between different factions is still nice, even if stats of e.g Tyrell's Knight and Baratheons Knight are the same.
:cool: Dornish Noblemen really need horses. I'd imagine them on coursers, using warbows/jarids and Dornish  scimitars/spears, harassing those clumsy armored knights and cutting down archers... Or maybe give two distinct upgrades from Horsemen: Lancers and Veteran Horse Archers? Also, please don't take out Dornish Sergeants and Master Sergeants :eek: These are my favourite troops!  :grin:

Now this may be misplaced, but I could use some help also... I've developed my character all the way to level 30, having learned only personal battle skills, STR and AGI, with a focus on two-handed and polearms. Hard fighting on tourneys has got me around 2000 renown, so my party size is 96 right now. However, with no Leadership skill whatsoever, morale is becoming a problem and I won't dare to attack those ridiculously heavily defended (250+ men) castles, as I play without reloads. Any advice?  :oops:
... and I do not even imagine, how is a city with 800 men supposed to be taken! Or is it not?

 
I haven't gotten to play around with .903 as much as some, but I am finding that it takes waaaaay too much time to actually become one of the factions... is there a way to remedy this? First, I had to make enemies with Lannister by attacking a caravan so I -could- join a battle between the faction I want and them, and most of the time i keep getting requests to imprison like 6 people from a faction I am not at war with. Most of the time actually the army that holds those troops is of size 60+ and my army of 30 can't do anything...

Am I just playing wrong, or is this something everyone is dealing with?
 
Usually I just run minor quests and gather the 20 NPCs, and then by the time I save up some money and find some eq for myself and my NPCs I start getting requests from other factions for me to join them.

But I would like it much more if this mod had the code from Bandit King that lets you start your own kingdom or hire yourself out to other factions as a mercenary. I think someone said it before, that there were so many kings that it wouldn't be to weird if you declared yourself king too.
 
ser Jeekim said:
I'll try to give some constructive input also :smile:
1) Noticed that according to the in-game compass, the Wall is to the south while Dorne is up North. :???: Not a big deal, but if there is an easy fix, it should be fixed :smile:
Ouch! Shame to my head... :sad: :oops: :cry:
I was so sure that North is on top of map in MapEditor, that never even look at compass...
Unfortunately, I've checked the list of available functions and existing scripts and can't find anything about ingame compass... :sad::sad:

ser Jeekim said:
2) Face models are really well done. Sole exception is Gendry, who should really not be blonde. And give him a helm as well  :wink:
Unfortunately, there are no appropriate helm in game currently, and there are no 3d-modellers in mod team. :sad:
As for his hair, I'll check it.

ser Jeekim said:
3) In North, less than 1/10 of armored horsemen were actually knights, since most of them did not recognize the Seven, so I propose renaming Stark Knights into Northern Heavy Horsemen or smth... Other than that, Northern troop tree is good as is.
OK, agreed.
 
About troops' trees...

After reading all posts, I'm thinking, that there should be 3 main categories:
  • Lowborn militia - could be hired in villages, cheap, bad armor and combat skills even at higher upgrade levels. Have several troops' trees, depending on region (Basic, Dorne, North, Iron Isles)
  • Mercenaries - could be hired in taverns, quite expensive, good armor and combat skills. Have several troops' trees, depending on profession (Melee, Ranged, Mounted). Maybe, Brave Companions mechanics could be used here instead of original upgrade mechanics. Or, maybe, Companions could be just another additional tree.
  • Warriors of oath - professional soldiers and nobility. Could be hired only from prisoners and in player's own castles/cities. Not so expensive as mercenaries, almost as good in combat as them. Maybe a bit better, but not much. No upgrade trees at all or very small (no more then 2-3 positions) ones.
 
ser Jeekim said:
7) Basic knights troop tree is ok also... only that some visual difference between different factions is still nice, even if stats of e.g Tyrell's Knight and Baratheons Knight are the same.
I think, it's quite easy to write a script, that will give a faction-dependent armor to knights when spawning a lord's party.
The only problem is to have a full set of signed mails, plates and shields for all kingdoms (or even lords).
 
I tried this mod last night as I'm a huge fan of George R. R. Martin. I must say, it's awesome! A lot of cool ideas I liked, especially being able to uniformly equip the "brave companions". It only took 30 seconds to outfit 20 guys with swords, armor, and bows/arrows!

Map detail is superb. I still can't believe how big the map is. Especially liking the characters you chose as heroes in game. I can tell a lot of time was spent on this for sure.

Great job, I hope you keep adding to it!
 
Since the Brave Companions were a pretty foul and reputably the worst of all mercenary companies, do you think we could rename them to something else?
 
shevchenko65 said:
Since the Brave Companions were a pretty foul and reputably the worst of all mercenary companies, do you think we could rename them to something else?

I've been thinking about that, too, but I can't really come up with an alternative. I suppose one could just make all mercenaries that way (customizable equipment, jacks-of-all-trades in terms of skill(perhaps with some branches of the troop tree specializing more) etc...), and just call them mercenaries.
 
shevchenko65 said:
Since the Brave Companions were a pretty foul and reputably the worst of all mercenary companies, do you think we could rename them to something else?

That's what they call themselves. However, they're just as well known by the name The Bloody Mummers, which would serve.
And the Golden Company isn't at all like Vargo Hoat's men.
 
Dryvus said:
shevchenko65 said:
Since the Brave Companions were a pretty foul and reputably the worst of all mercenary companies, do you think we could rename them to something else?

That's what they call themselves. However, they're just as well known by the name The Bloody Mummers, which would serve.
And the Golden Company isn't at all like Vargo Hoat's men.

Well, seeing as how we were discussing whether the name of the customizable troops(I assume so, anyway) should be changed, it really has no relation to The Goat or his men.  :wink:

shevchenko65 said:
We can have a little Targeryan flavor and rename them to the Golden Company
Personally, I'd try to avoid giving them any kind of label that would tie them to any faction at any time. As such, giving them the name of any mercenary company appearing in the books wouldn't really fit(since they, considering the function they serve in the game, wouldn't be similar to any of them, though admittedly the Brave Companions fit better than some). Of course, that is just my opinion.
 
HokieBT said:
Spearhawk - here's an updated logo if you need it.  I tried to make the colors match the main M&B screen a little better....
ASoIaF_041a.bmp
and
ASoIaF_041b.bmp

Could you make an updated logo for 0.4.2, please? :wink:
 
Sparehawk said:
HokieBT said:
Spearhawk - here's an updated logo if you need it.  I tried to make the colors match the main M&B screen a little better....
ASoIaF_041a.bmp
and
ASoIaF_041b.bmp

Could you make an updated logo for 0.4.2, please? :wink:
That means you are going to realease a new version ready, right?
I hope so the mod is absolutely stunning
 
BloodLuster said:
That means you are going to realease a new version ready, right?
I hope so the mod is absolutely stunning

Answer is:
Sparehawk said:
Version 0.4.2 is almost ready, it will be released on this weekend or - maybe - even sooner.
Changes list isn't big - there will be all green lines from TODO list, except for map trouble spots, since I can't localize them.

I assume, it will be the last update for version 0.4 and next release after it will be 0.5 (all blue lines in TODO list).
Truly said, the part about "even sooner" was quite optimistic... I assume, it will be Sunday evening.
And I'll try to do something with map trouble spots, but can't guarantee nothing.
 
Jheral said:
Dryvus said:
shevchenko65 said:
Since the Brave Companions were a pretty foul and reputably the worst of all mercenary companies, do you think we could rename them to something else?

That's what they call themselves. However, they're just as well known by the name The Bloody Mummers, which would serve.
And the Golden Company isn't at all like Vargo Hoat's men.

Well, seeing as how we were discussing whether the name of the customizable troops(I assume so, anyway) should be changed, it really has no relation to The Goat or his men.

I'm assuming shevchenko65 hasn't read the books (or he'd be aware of the name "Bloody Mummers". The Brave Companions have been called that since they were implemented, and the recruiter's name is Urswyck. So I don't think they were just given the name Brave Companions as a placeholder.
 
I have read the books and I'm not sure what your point is? I suggested that Brave Companions, or any other of their aliases, not be used as the name for customizable troops. I know Golden Company isn't anything at all like Goat's man, they're actually a good mercenary company.
 
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