SP Fantasy A Song of Ice and Fire Mod (moved to MBX)

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I don´t mean random npc´s as in ser NN created with dice-bag and such, I mean you could have a Npc party spawn that is conditional, ie if Lancel dies, Osfryd starts spawning with his men. There are after all already the conditional others-parties, and I´ve seen the eorhere of Rohan spawn in only after Isengards fall in TLD, so that can be done. Giving them fiefs and that is trickier, I suspect? Yes, I know the kettlebalcks are already in, but as they came in fairly late in the books, so they should spawn later in-mod as well. As, if I understand it correctly, cities are scripted as parties, then shouldn´t it be possible to have a spawning city with the only option "arena", called tournament ground or whatnot?
 
HokieBT said:
- Trainer (Ser Alliser Thorne) - I switched his items so he had some mail and a practice sword and shield.  Also switched his conversation so he insults you (I found a quote in one of the books)  :smile:
Could you post that quote here, please?
Seems like I cant find any changes of trainer's dialogs in files that you uploaded...
 
By the way, are there any suggestions of what to do with zendar's slavetrader?
There are no slavery in Westeros and I'm quite unsure that there could be any ransoms for prisoned wildlings...

I could remove him at all or just move him to some other location, but I have no idea - where to?
 
Version 0.4.2 is almost ready, it will be released on this weekend or - maybe - even sooner.
Changes list isn't big - there will be all green lines from TODO list, except for map trouble spots, since I can't localize them.

I assume, it will be the last update for version 0.4 and next release after it will be 0.5 (all blue lines in TODO list).
 
One of the mapspots where parties tend to get stuck the most is on the east end of the tumblestone river, right where it ends towards KL, the other in the foothills east of Highgarden. The slavetrader isn´t much of a problem as slavery is common in the free cities, he could be sent from there. However, relocalizing him would be a good idea, keep him where ever the tournament ground will be.
 
...also, Sparehawk- you rock! thanks for keeping this thing alive, and at such an amazing pace! Used to the tld team your workingpace... man you spoil us all!
 
Sparehawk said:
By the way, are there any suggestions of what to do with zendar's slavetrader?
There are no slavery in Westeros and I'm quite unsure that there could be any ransoms for prisoned wildlings...

I could remove him at all or just move him to some other location, but I have no idea - where to?

I was just thinking about that last night. I think we should keep ransom brokers in taverns since families do buy prisoners that were captured in battle. As for the slavetrader in Castle Black, you could move him to KL and rename him as another ransom broker, or since NW receives criminals or potential prisoners, we can just go a little further and pretend that the people that bring those prisoners get paid for it. So the slave trader will be another NW recruiter of sorts.
 
shevchenko65 said:
I was just thinking about that last night. I think we should keep ransom brokers in taverns since families do buy prisoners that were captured in battle. As for the slavetrader in Castle Black, you could move him to KL and rename him as another ransom broker, or since NW receives criminals or potential prisoners, we can just go a little further and pretend that the people that bring those prisoners get paid for it. So the slave trader will be another NW recruiter of sorts.

Thar's one way to do it. Another would be to sell them to traders from the free cities (which could be placed in the taverns of the bigger cities, i.e. Oldtown, King's Landing, Gull Town etc...). Or, if possible, you could make the Night's Watch increase in numbers when you give them captives, and in return, they hunt down wildlings before they can cause too much trouble, and keep the Others from crossing the wall (reducing the chances of them getting past as the Watch increases in strength). I'm not sure if you should get paid for it or not, though.

So, ransom them, sell them as slaves, or give them to the watch. It depends on the troop type, really. Maybe have selling them as slaves give a flat fee, regardless of troop type(something low enough to not really be worth it for troops of higher rank, but still worth it for the lowest), ransoms giving money depending on the troop type(giving a lot of money, but only available for the highest troop types, i.e. knights etc), and the Watch paying nothing, but growing in strength, so that they can do thier job better.

Might be overdoing it a bit, but whatever...  :wink:
 
In the book Mormont has to run for his life when Ned finds out that he was trying to sell some poachers to slavers, and it's mentioned to Danny that Westernos will unite against her if she comes marching with a slave army because Westernos is very anti slavery. So if you make it possible to sell slaves in taverns of bigger cities, I think it should pay a lot, but there should also be a chance that you get 'caught' by the Lord of the city and you have to pay a fine or something along those lines.
 
shevchenko65 said:
In the book Mormont has to run for his life when Ned finds out that he was trying to sell some poachers to slavers, and it's mentioned to Danny that Westernos will unite against her if she comes marching with a slave army because Westernos is very anti slavery. So if you make it possible to sell slaves in taverns of bigger cities, I think it should pay a lot, but there should also be a chance that you get 'caught' by the Lord of the city and you have to pay a fine or something along those lines.

Yes, that would be appropriate. A heavy fine, and a very big drop in relation to all factions. Perhaps even getting kicked out of any faction you're in at the time?
 
I've thinked a lot about troops' trees tweaking, and wanna to seek your advice about some my ideas.

IMHO, at the moment of game start, not each of Seven Kingdoms have it's own culture. I should say, that only Dorne, Iron Isles and North have own cultures. All other kingdoms share the common westeross culture and main difference in their armies determined mainly by their lords' politics, not by some cultural traditions.
So, it seems to be quite logical to forsake separate unit trees for each kingdom and instead to have a set of basic troops types like militia, mercenaries, knights etc.
Inside of each basic type will be a small (2-4 tiers) upgrade tree, and each kingdom will have an army based on some unique set of that basic types.

For example...
  • Basic militia:
    • Peasant. Base unit. Worst leather armor, clubs, knives and pitchforks.
      Upgradeable to spearman or archer.
    • Spearman. Better leather armor, spear, decent combat skills.
      Upgradeable to swordsman or light horseman.
    • Archer. Better leather armor, basic bow, decent combat skills.
      Upgradeable to ranger or crossbowman.
    • Swordsman. Mail armor, shield, sword, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to plate swordsman.
    • Light horseman. Good leather armor, pike, longsword, horse, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to heavy horseman.
    • Ranger. Good leather armor, longbow, good combat skills.
    • Crossbowman. Good leather armor, crossbow, good combat skills.
    • Plate swordsman. Basic plate armor, sword or mace, shield, good combat skills.
    • Heavy horseman. Mail armor, pike, longsword, horse, good combat skills.
  • Basic knights:
    • Squire. Good leather armor, sword or mace, shield, low combat skills.
      Upgradeable to hedge knight or knight.
    • Hedge Knight. Decent  plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, good combat skills. Not so expensive.
      Upgradeable to veteran hedge knight.
    • Knight. Good plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, good combat skills. Quite expensive.
      Upgradeable to champion.
    • Veteran Hedge Knight. Good plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, good combat skills. Not so expensive.
    • Champion. Better plate armor, lance, shield, longsword, horse, better combat skills. Very expensive.
  • Northern militia:
    • Hunter. Base unit. Worst leather armor, crude bow, axe.
      Upgradeable to axeman or archer(basic militia).
    • Axeman. Good leather armor, axe.
      Upgradeable to veteran axeman or light horseman(basic militia).
    • Veteran axeman. Good mail armor, axe.
      Upgradeable to man-at-arms.
    • Man-at-arms. Best mail armor, axe, best combat skills.
  • Dornish militia:
    • Dornish spearman. Base unit. Worst leather armor, throwing spears, pike, worst combat skills.
      Upgradeable to veteran spearman or archer(basic militia).
    • Veteran spearman. Good leather armor, throwing spears, pike, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to dornish horseman or mounted archer.
    • Dornish horseman. Good mail armor, throwing spears, light lance, longsword, horse, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to heavy horseman(basic militia).
    • Mounted archer. Best leather armor, shortbow, horse, excellent combat skills.
      Upgradeable to veteran mounted archer.
    • Veteran mounted archer. Good mail armor. best shortbow, horse, extraordinary combat skills.
  • Iron Isles militia:
    • Сabin boy. Base unit. Worst leather or even cloth armor, knife or axe.
      Upgradeable to sailor.
    • Sailor. Cheap mail armor, sword or axe.
      Upgradeable to raider.
    • Raider. Decent mail armor, sword or axe.
      Upgradeable to manhunter or finger dancer.
    • Manhunter. Good mail armor, sword or axe, cheap horse.
    • Finger dancer. Good mail armor, throwing axes.
  • Iron Isles nobility:
    • Ironman Noble. Good mail armor, sword or axe, good combat skills.
      Upgradeable to captain or drowned man.
    • Captain. Plate armor, sword or axe, better combat skills.
    • Drowned man. Cloth armor, sword or axe, extraordinary combat skills, ironflash max.

So, Starks army will have northern militia and basic knights without hedge knights. Lannisters - basic militia and basic knights with main focus on hedge knights. Tyrells - the same, but with focus on true knights. Etc.

This is only an example, I haven't spent any time to balancing at all.

How do you think, is this idea usable, or it's better to leave troops' trees as they are?
 
I've downloaded v0.4.1 and can't get away from it. After reading the list of prospective changes and improvements, I'm basically drooling. I wish I could help, but alas, I have no expertise, so I wish you all good luck.
 
Looks pretty good so far, it can be tweaked more once people actually play the game.

Note: Ironmen should have very few horseman, which I think you did. Maybe instead of giving manhunters horses, give them only to the nobility. Maybe you can change the Drowned man name to something else. In the book they seemed to be more like priests, dressed in wool with wooden cudgels. Maybe change it to Reaver or something like that.
 
Sparehawk said:
I've thinked a lot about troops' trees tweaking, and wanna to seek your advice about some my ideas.

IMHO, at the moment of game start, not each of Seven Kingdoms have it's own culture. I should say, that only Dorne, Iron Isles and North have own cultures. All other kingdoms share the common westeross culture and main difference in their armies determined mainly by their lords' politics, not by some cultural traditions.
So, it seems to be quite logical to forsake separate unit trees for each kingdom and instead to have a set of basic troops types like militia, mercenaries, knights etc.
Inside of each basic type will be a small (2-4 tiers) upgrade tree, and each kingdom will have an army based on some unique set of that basic types.

So, Starks army will have northern militia and basic knights without hedge knights. Lannisters - basic militia and basic knights with main focus on hedge knights. Tyrells - the same, but with focus on true knights. Etc.

This is only an example, I haven't spent any time to balancing at all.

How do you think, is this idea usable, or it's better to leave troops' trees as they are?

It would certainly need balancing, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.
I would make a clearer distinction between the lowborn and highborn (so to speak).
Peasant militia, which would be the troops you recruit from villages, should never really become that powerful. Swords, chain mail etc would be very expensive, much more than your usual farmer would be able to afford, and as such, shouldn't really appear that often among them(much less plate armour).

Perhaps something like this (for the 'main' troops. Dorne, the Iron Isles, and in some ways the North, might have slightly different structures):
  • Peasant Militia - Conscripts, levies, guardsmen, etc... Lightly armed and armoured, and with little training, compared to the others. No plate, very little chain, mostly armed with spears, crossbows, bows, few swords, etc... Mostly light infantry and archers, but could include some light cavalry as well.
  • Men-at-Arms - 'Professional' Soldiers. Better training, arms and armour. For armour, mostly chain, maybe some plate for the heavier troops. Made up mostly of heavier infantry and some cavalry.
  • Knights - (For lack of a better word.)Squires, knights etc. These would be the best in terms of both training and equipment. A mixture of heavy chain mail and plate armour, but mostly mounted troops, unlike the men-at-arms tree.
3-5 Tiers in each, with the top tier of one being compareable to the 2nd or 3rd of the next in level, stats, etc.
 
That actually sounds pretty good. The peasant militia would be the cheapest to recruit and would make up the bulk of the Lords army, around 50% or so. I think they can be recruited from villages only. The men-at-arm should be mercenary troops I think, recruitable at taverns. They should be more expensive but better fighters than the militia. And then the knights, should be recruitable only in castles. They would be the best, but very expensive and make up around 20% of the army.
 
shevchenko65 said:
That actually sounds pretty good. The peasant militia would be the cheapest to recruit and would make up the bulk of the Lords army, around 50% or so. I think they can be recruited from villages only. The men-at-arm should be mercenary troops I think, recruitable at taverns. They should be more expensive but better fighters than the militia. And then the knights, should be recruitable only in castles. They would be the best, but very expensive and make up around 20% of the army.

I'd put mercenaries as a seperate tree, actually. They would be troops of all types, but with dramatically increased recruitment cost and wages compared to regular ones (50-100% higher for essentially the same unit(different name, equipment, etc... but essentially the same type of unit)). Men-at-arms would be recruitable in castles and cities, if that is possible.
 
IDK man-at-arms sort of seem like mercenary troops to me. They are professional soldiers, like mercenary's, who basicly go from war to war.
 
shevchenko65 said:
IDK man-at-arms sort of seem like mercenary troops to me. They are professional soldiers, like mercenary's, who basicly go from war to war.
Well, I was thinking more of soldiers serving directly under some lord or another, rather than drifting from war to war. I mean, strictly speaking all professional soldiers could be considered mercenaries, but we still don't think of them as such, do we?  :wink:
 
The basic idea seems good to me, but I agree that peasants shouldn´t be upgradeable into heavy horsemen, which should be reserved for nobility. The only horsemen (if any) that could come from militia would be some sort of scouts, throwning weapons/hunting crossbows, leather, cheap melee. Instead, the upgrade from spearmen would be pikemen/halbardiers. For reqruitement of nobility solved in a nice way, refer to the TLD influencesystem. You wouldn´t have to go that far, but a good standing with your faction+good renown could make squires/hedgeknights reqruiteable from your lord. The mercs should be crossbow/longbow marksmen, men-at-arms on foot, halbards and hedgeknights.
 
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