SP Fantasy A Song of Ice and Fire Mod (moved to MBX)

[shevchenko65]

Just another round of suggestions:

I think Dorne should start out neutral in the fighting, and they should definatly never go to war against some of the factions. In my games, Stannis spends a lot of time fighting Dorne, and thats just not something we see in the game. I think Highgarden and Lannisters should be allied fighting Barantheon. Starks should be at war against Ironmen and Lannisters. Dorne should start out neutral and only later attack Lannisters/Highgarden, and never declare war on the North. And different factions should have different personalities. Like Lannisters and Tyrells and Ironmen should focus on taking castles, Dorne and North only on defending their territory.

I know you have some planned events to occur on the todo list, maybe you should add more events. Like the Frey/Bolton betrayal of the Starks, Tywin and Joff dying and Tyrion leaving.

 

[monsterfurby]

I think Highgarden and Lannisters should be allied fighting Barantheon.

Hm, I have to disagree here. Mind you, Renly Baratheon, the Tyrell Family's supported King, is currently part of the Baratheon faction. He really needs to be put into the Tyrell Faction.

And different factions should have different personalities. Like Lannisters and Tyrells and Ironmen should focus on taking castles, Dorne and North only on defending their territory.

That would be great, but actually the North led the offensive campaign in ASOS. It was Robb's army advancing past the Neck, not the Lannisters, so I believe the North and House Lannister should be the most aggressive, with the other factions taking the back seat to their struggle.

I know you have some planned events to occur on the todo list, maybe you should add more events. Like the Frey/Bolton betrayal of the Starks, Tywin and Joff dying and Tyrion leaving.

I second this!

 

[shevchenko65]

I forgot about Renly. If he's with Highgarden then there should be a three way fight between stannis, renly, and lannisters. Starks had raids in the west, but I don't think in the game sense they should try to capture castles, only to hit and run. Plus I think, the North especially, should try to do a better job defending their own villages from bandits/greyjoys. Always pissed me off to see lords in castles sitting doing nothing as the raiding parties came right up to towns chasing me.

 

[Nahadiel]

I think Highgarden and Lannisters should be allied fighting Barantheon.

Hm, I have to disagree here. Mind you, Renly Baratheon, the Tyrell Family's supported King, is currently part of the Baratheon faction. He really needs to be put into the Tyrell Faction.

And different factions should have different personalities. Like Lannisters and Tyrells and Ironmen should focus on taking castles, Dorne and North only on defending their territory.

That would be great, but actually the North led the offensive campaign in ASOS. It was Robb's army advancing past the Neck, not the Lannisters, so I believe the North and House Lannister should be the most aggressive, with the other factions taking the back seat to their struggle.

I know you have some planned events to occur on the todo list, maybe you should add more events. Like the Frey/Bolton betrayal of the Starks, Tywin and Joff dying and Tyrion leaving.

I second this!

And remove him after that as an event perhaps? Like Joof and Tywin would dissappear? I think it's nearly impossible to make all the changes of the novels. Just to start you have Robb's wedding (removing Robb, half of the northern Lords, changing Frey's faction), death of Joffrey, Tywin, Tyrion leaves, Gregor and Oberyn die... Before that Renly has to be dead and Tyrell's join Lannister side while Brienne come backs to Stannis or joins the north... Orthon Merryweather should join Lannisters as his wife becomes rellay cose to Cersey's desires. Slint goes to the Wall, Jaime is uselles as combatant as he lacks his swordhand. Half of Stannis' army and Lords leave after Blackwaters battle... Too many changes.

Starks had raids in the west, but I don't think in the game sense they should try to capture castles, only to hit and run. Plus I think, the North especially, should try to do a better job defending their own villages from bandits/greyjoys. Always pissed me off to see lords in castles sitting doing nothing as the raiding parties came right up to towns chasing me.

At Robb's death the northern were almost nocking to Lannisport doors and they managed to get Harrenhal until Bolton's treason. Robb's end began when he was wounded stormig the walls of Westerling's castle. And is almost impossible that an NPC army conquers a castle, they have around 250 men on garrison; near 750 the towns. But completely agree about the raiders.

 

[Jheral]

Just another round of suggestions:

I think Dorne should start out neutral in the fighting, and they should definitely never go to war against some of the factions. In my games, Stannis spends a lot of time fighting Dorne, and thats just not something we see in the game. I think Highgarden and Lannisters should be allied fighting Barantheon. Starks should be at war against Ironmen and Lannisters. Dorne should start out neutral and only later attack Lannisters/Highgarden, and never declare war on the North. And different factions should have different personalities. Like Lannisters and Tyrells and Ironmen should focus on taking castles, Dorne and North only on defending their territory.

I have no arguments against Dorne starting neutral, or the Starks, Dorne and the Arryns being more concerned with defense than conquest. The alliance between Highgarden and the Lannisters, on the other hand, isn't really accurate. While they did form an alliance later, that wasn't until Renly was dead. In my opinion, the only alliance there should be at the start is that between Stark and Tully.

I know you have some planned events to occur on the todo list, maybe you should add more events. Like the Frey/Bolton betrayal of the Starks, Tywin and Joff dying and Tyrion leaving.

Well, seeing as how the Red Wedding pretty much put an end to the Starks, I don't think it'd work to have it in, unless you want to arbitrarily destroy the faction through events, no matter how strong they are, and that really doesn't sound like a good idea to me, to be honest.  One way it could work, I suppose, would be through a player-instigated event, maybe triggered by high standings with Lannister, as well as a high level. As a series of missions, maybe?

Major events of that kind are sort of tricky to include in a sandbox game like M&B. It's almost guaranteed to mess up either the game, or the story.

Edit: <sigh> I really need to lear to type faster... 

 

[shevchenko65]

Heh, I just really dislike Boltons and Frey's from the books and I don't like seeing them in Stark faction.

 

[monsterfurby]

Alright, if events were to be put in, which would be a complete novelty in a MnB mod, they should be pretty general and not too specific.

As for the Red Wedding - would it be possible to include a "assassinate noble" command costing a lot of renown but removing a noble permanently from the game? This would probably mirror the red wedding pretty well.

Anything else should be dependent on
a) the number of armies and towns available to a faction (which is basically the only thing I know for sure can be implemented in scripts)
b) the player's standing with factions
c) the status of Others and Ironmen (possibly?)
d) (possibly) missions taken by the player.

If implemented, Events should not be any more dramatic than "Castle taken by traitors" or said "Lord assassinated". The lower end of the scale could include unprotected lands being sacked by raiding parties (Gregor Clegane, anyone?) or the player profiting from a surge in finances of their employer (like when Cersei managed to get rid of a debt of around half a million dragons in AFFC - the player should get a small fraction as surely some money would go into the army)

I am sure the game can not ask for the outcome of a battle as trigger for an event, or can it?

 

[Jheral]

Alright, if events were to be put in, which would be a complete novelty in a MnB mod, they should be pretty general and not too specific.

As for the Red Wedding - would it be possible to include a "assassinate noble" command costing a lot of renown but removing a noble permanently from the game? This would probably mirror the red wedding pretty well.

Assassinations would work as missions, yes. However, it would require that there is some mechanic for replacing dead npcs, which I imagine would be a bit more difficult. If you don't include that, you'd be the only one left, eventually, as there are no faction armies without npc leaders, aside from caravans. (not at the moment, anyway).

Anything else should be dependent on
a) the number of armies and towns available to a faction (which is basically the only thing I know for sure can be implemented in scripts)
b) the player's standing with factions
c) the status of Others and Ironmen (possibly?)
d) (possibly) missions taken by the player.

If implemented, Events should not be any more dramatic than "Castle taken by traitors" or said "Lord assassinated". The lower end of the scale could include unprotected lands being sacked by raiding parties (Gregor Clegane, anyone?) or the player profiting from a surge in finances of their employer (like when Cersei managed to get rid of a debt of around half a million dragons in AFFC - the player should get a small fraction as surely some money would go into the army)

That could work very well, indeed. A 'Castle taken by traitors'-event might be a bit much, though it could work if, for instance you were besieging the castle in question (i.e. having the defenders desert, and let you in. the chances of it occuring could be determined by their strength and food stores. It would certainly make it a bit more interesting to lay siege to castles.), or maybe setting it up like bandits taking over a village, which is already in the game.

 

[BloodLuster]

From my reading of the book, it seems that infantry isn't a really developed force in Westernos. It seems that most infantry is made up of either archers and crossbowmen, or spearman infantry. The elite troops would be the knights, and they are equiped with both lances and swords. So I think for everyone except Dorne more ephasis should be put on cavalry than on infantry, and infatry shouldn't upgrade further than vetern footmen or something like that.

true but this is a game and it would be unfair to those who like to play footman!
This mod is based in some great books but the main idea to a game mod is to extend the play time giving the player enjoyable moments.
I would even suggest in this area to increase the speed rating of spears maybe 100~105 the longer and 110~115 the smaller.

 

[HokieBT]

What colour is it? Dragonbone in Westeros is dark, because of high iron content.

oh, good point, I had forgotten that.  The silverwood bow is basically off-white (bone color) so I painted it grey/black.  I'd suggest just renaming the "itm_silver_bow" in the current mod to a Dragonbone Bow and then make sure the unique flag is setup in the places it needs to be...  Here's a link to a resource file and a pic if your curious.  Its not great but it would probably do?

http://www.tommasini.org/temp/ASoIaF_resource.zip

 

[Jheral]

oh, good point, I had forgotten that.  The silverwood bow is basically off-white (bone color) so I painted it grey/black.  I'd suggest just renaming the "itm_silver_bow" in the current mod to a Dragonbone Bow and then make sure the unique flag is setup in the places it needs to be...  Here's a link to a resource file and a pic if your curious.  Its not great but it would probably do?

Well, the only description of a dragonbone bow that I can recall off the top of my head is the one Daenerys was given at her wedding, which was described as 'double curved and taller than she was', so something akin to the War Bow would probably be more accurate. Then again, there's nothing to say that there aren't any other kinds, quite the opposite.

 

[Qi.Wang]

Maybe,the special arena should be moved to kings's landing or other big city/castle?

Otherwise,there can be a tournament like original trainingground.

 

[Nahadiel]

It would be awesome to move that arena somewhere and have an especial event (maybe via a mission). A tournament is arranged and you can go the place, join it paying a big amount of Dragons and after winning several competitions get a prize.

 

[Oroonin]

As for treachery and so forth, wouldn´t it be nicer if there´s a random (rare), possibly mission-triggered "lord changes faction" script? That way it will be less predictable where and when the dagger hits your back? As for the lords dying away- there could be a spawn queue, the Kettleblacks could replace various lesser Lannisters for instance. And you could have non-npc parties, the old scouts and war parties for one. And the arena should be moved, I´d say every capitol should have it.

 

[Jheral]

As for treachery and so forth, wouldn´t it be nicer if there´s a random (rare), possibly mission-triggered "lord changes faction" script? That way it will be less predictable where and when the dagger hits your back? As for the lords dying away- there could be a spawn queue, the Kettleblacks could replace various lesser Lannisters for instance. And you could have non-npc parties, the old scouts and war parties for one. And the arena should be moved, I´d say every capitol should have it.

I believe it's been mentioned that randomly generated npcs wouldn't be possible, and the Kettleblacks are, as I recall, already in the game (under Lannister, I think). As such, lords dying wouldn't really be possible. I can support the idea of them betraying their faction, though, assuming that is possible. But it would have to be reasonably well made, and any betrayals should make at least some sense.

Having an arena in major cities would make sense as well(more than only having one up in castle black, anyway). Of course, there is the question; should it be there at all? I mean, would people really waste time on tourneys during a war?

 

[Merentha]

Having an arena in major cities would make sense as well(more than only having one up in castle black, anyway). Of course, there is the question; should it be there at all? I mean, would people really waste time on tourneys during a war?

Joffrey had a small one for his birthday during the war, yes.  Renly's army was basically a moving tourney and suppy train.  If your renown is very high, I don't see why very specific tournament locations couldn't open up.

From my reading of the book, it seems that infantry isn't a really developed force in Westernos. It seems that most infantry is made up of either archers and crossbowmen, or spearman infantry. The elite troops would be the knights, and they are equiped with both lances and swords. So I think for everyone except Dorne more ephasis should be put on cavalry than on infantry, and infatry shouldn't upgrade further than vetern footmen or something like that.

true but this is a game and it would be unfair to those who like to play footman!
This mod is based in some great books but the main idea to a game mod is to extend the play time giving the player enjoyable moments.
I would even suggest in this area to increase the speed rating of spears maybe 100~105 the longer and 110~115 the smaller.

Cavalry is and should be an elite force.  If there is any way to significantly bump the cost of cavalry (say, to seven or eight times the current cost) then we'd see parties more in-line with book parties.  Heavy, skilled infantry and outriders should be roughly equivalent, while heavy cavalry should be exorbitant. 

 

[shevchenko65]

[I believe it's been mentioned that randomly generated npcs wouldn't be possible, and the Kettleblacks are, as I recall, already in the game (under Lannister, I think). As such, lords dying wouldn't really be possible. I can support the idea of them betraying their faction, though, assuming that is possible. But it would have to be reasonably well made, and any betrayals should make at least some sense.

I thought I saw that some mods were trying to make scripts for randomly generated npcs. Maybe I was wrong.

 

[monsterfurby]

Well Random NPC generation would pretty much solve everything in terms of making the game as dynamic as it is supposed to be. I know it is a bit off-topic, but the dynamic generation is really something the MnB engine needs to truly open up infinite possibilities (and a really dynamic experience). On the other side, without it, the game will practically never be complete (lacking features like executing or recruiting enemy lords)..

 

[Jheral]

Joffrey had a small one for his birthday during the war, yes.  Renly's army was basically a moving tourney and suppy train.  If your renown is very high, I don't see why very specific tournament locations couldn't open up.

I stand corrected. I'd completely forgotten about those, strangely enough(I just finished reading A Clash of Kings yesterday).

I thought I saw that some mods were trying to make scripts for randomly generated npcs. Maybe I was wrong.

Oh, it's quite likely that I was wrong, too. I know next to nothing about modding M&B, and I only keep up to date on three or four mods, so I have no doubt missed a lot. I brought it up earlier in this thread, though, and Sparehawk didn't seem to think it was possible(that's my interpretation of his response, anyway). It would be great if it is possible, though.

 

[Sparehawk]

Joffrey had a small one for his birthday during the war, yes.  Renly's army was basically a moving tourney and suppy train.  If your renown is very high, I don't see why very specific tournament locations couldn't open up.

I stand corrected. I'd completely forgotten about those, strangely enough(I just finished reading A Clash of Kings yesterday).

I assume, such tournaments tweak should be done, but only after implementation of new factions.

I thought I saw that some mods were trying to make scripts for randomly generated npcs. Maybe I was wrong.

Oh, it's quite likely that I was wrong, too. I know next to nothing about modding M&B, and I only keep up to date on three or four mods, so I have no doubt missed a lot. I brought it up earlier in this thread, though, and Sparehawk didn't seem to think it was possible(that's my interpretation of his response, anyway). It would be great if it is possible, though.

Yep, I've said so, and currently I can't see any possibility to make it. However, I'm working with M&B not so long yet, and know very little about a lot of already existing or currently developing mods.
If you could give me a link, I'll try to study their experience and use it in our mod.

As for a lords' death, I think it's possible to make a really low chance of "permanent death", after what "dead" Lord's party will not respawn any more... This could lead to possibility of total faction extermination, but I think that's not so bad at all. The only trouble I expect is if kingdom's leader will be killed.
Due to a formal logic, in that case 2 possible path exists: to disable a whole faction at once, or to choose a new leader. Currently, I'm not quite sure that second way could be realized at all.