SP Fantasy A Song of Ice and Fire Mod (moved to MBX)

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shevchenko65 said:
I have read the books and I'm not sure what your point is? I suggested that Brave Companions, or any other of their aliases, not be used as the name for customizable troops. I know Golden Company isn't anything at all like Goat's man, they're actually a good mercenary company.
That they are. But do we really know more than that? I seem to recall there's not much info on them at all in the books, besides that they're apparently the biggest, best(and most expensive) mercenary company there is(though that could just be my memory playing tricks on me again). Still, no real info does leave a lot to your imagination, which I suppose is fitting for customizable troops.  :wink:

Dryvus said:
I'm assuming shevchenko65 hasn't read the books (or he'd be aware of the name "Bloody Mummers". The Brave Companions have been called that since they were implemented, and the recruiter's name is Urswyck. So I don't think they were just given the name Brave Companions as a placeholder.

No offence, but assuming he hasn't read the books from just the fact that he uses one recognized name for them(which, by the way, is their 'official' name) rather than the other doesn't really make sense to me. Besides,from reading his other comments in this thread, I'd think it's safe to say he's read them(and paid attention to what he was reading, too  :smile:).
 
Do you guys know if it's possible to make some parties appear only at certain times of day? In one of the Sam chapters it mentions that the others attack only in the dark (or it gets dark when they attack). So it would make sense that their bands would only appear during the night, and they should have high speed at night. That way to get away you would have to hope you can run till dawn.
 
Sparehawk said:
HokieBT said:
- Trainer (Ser Alliser Thorne) - I switched his items so he had some mail and a practice sword and shield.  Also switched his conversation so he insults you (I found a quote in one of the books)  :smile:
Could you post that quote here, please?
Seems like I cant find any changes of trainer's dialogs in files that you uploaded...

Sorry for the delay and the confusion, I think I may have made this change after I uploaded that zip file, so thats why you may not see it.  Anyway, I'm away from my computer but these were two of the quotes I found for Ser Alliser Thorne. I forgot exactly where I put them in the dialog but I'll try to take a look when I get home.

“That will be all,” Thorne told them. “I can only stomach so much ineptitude in any one day. If the Others ever come for us, I pray they have archers, because you lot are fit for nothing more than arrow fodder.”

http://victor-lee.com/empiresonline.net/files/Books/George%20RR%20Martin/George%20R.%20R.%20Martin%20-%20(A%20Song%20Of%20Ice%20And%20Fire%2001)%20-%20A%20Game%20of%20Thrones%20(v4)%20(HTML)/slide21.html

You are as hopeless as any boys I have ever trained,” Ser Alliser Thorne announced when they had all assembled in the yard. “Your hands were made for manure shovels, not for swords, and if it were up to me, the lot of you would be set to herding swine. But last night I was told that Gueren is marching five new boys up the kingsroad. One or two may even be worth the price of piss. To make room for them, I have decided to pass eight of you on to the Lord Commander to do with as he will.”

http://victor-lee.com/empiresonline.net/files/Books/George%20RR%20Martin/George%20R.%20R.%20Martin%20-%20(A%20Song%20Of%20Ice%20And%20Fire%2001)%20-%20A%20Game%20of%20Thrones%20(v4)%20(HTML)/slide43.html
 
I know this is a little off-topic but I created an "Unofficial Troop Editor" for Mount & Blade so I wanted post the link to it.  This allows direct editing of the troops.txt file but may be helpful in the ASoIaF mod because it allows the ability for anybody to easily view the  troop attributes, skills, proficiences and items.  This may be helpful if somebody wants to give some suggestions on how the troops could be balanced better, etc.  Anyway, link is below, if anybody has issues/suggestions for it please reply in the thread below.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,34154.0.html
 
shevchenko65 said:
Do you guys know if it's possible to make some parties appear only at certain times of day? In one of the Sam chapters it mentions that the others attack only in the dark (or it gets dark when they attack). So it would make sense that their bands would only appear during the night, and they should have high speed at night. That way to get away you would have to hope you can run till dawn.
Yes, I've already thought about it a lot, but haven't found any solution yet.
 
HokieBT said:
Sorry for the delay and the confusion, I think I may have made this change after I uploaded that zip file, so thats why you may not see it.  Anyway, I'm away from my computer but these were two of the quotes I found for Ser Alliser Thorne. I forgot exactly where I put them in the dialog but I'll try to take a look when I get home.

“That will be all,” Thorne told them. “I can only stomach so much ineptitude in any one day. If the Others ever come for us, I pray they have archers, because you lot are fit for nothing more than arrow fodder.”
http://victor-lee.com/empiresonline.net/files/Books/George%20RR%20Martin/George%20R.%20R.%20Martin%20-%20(A%20Song%20Of%20Ice%20And%20Fire%2001)%20-%20A%20Game%20of%20Thrones%20(v4)%20(HTML)/slide21.html

You are as hopeless as any boys I have ever trained,” Ser Alliser Thorne announced when they had all assembled in the yard. “Your hands were made for manure shovels, not for swords, and if it were up to me, the lot of you would be set to herding swine. But last night I was told that Gueren is marching five new boys up the kingsroad. One or two may even be worth the price of piss. To make room for them, I have decided to pass eight of you on to the Lord Commander to do with as he will.”
http://victor-lee.com/empiresonline.net/files/Books/George%20RR%20Martin/George%20R.%20R.%20Martin%20-%20(A%20Song%20Of%20Ice%20And%20Fire%2001)%20-%20A%20Game%20of%20Thrones%20(v4)%20(HTML)/slide43.html
Thanx a lot.
 
HokieBT said:
I know this is a little off-topic but I created an "Unofficial Troop Editor" for Mount & Blade so I wanted post the link to it.  This allows direct editing of the troops.txt file but may be helpful in the ASoIaF mod because it allows the ability for anybody to easily view the  troop attributes, skills, proficiences and items.  This may be helpful if somebody wants to give some suggestions on how the troops could be balanced better, etc.  Anyway, link is below, if anybody has issues/suggestions for it please reply in the thread below.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,34154.0.html
Wow! Great work!
 
Maybe it's a bit late, but I've out for a while and I'm afraid it going to be a long post.

Jheral said:
It would certainly need balancing, but it's certainly a step in the right direction.
I would make a clearer distinction between the lowborn and highborn (so to speak).
Peasant militia, which would be the troops you recruit from villages, should never really become that powerful. Swords, chain mail etc would be very expensive, much more than your usual farmer would be able to afford, and as such, shouldn't really appear that often among them(much less plate armour).

Perhaps something like this (for the 'main' troops. Dorne, the Iron Isles, and in some ways the North, might have slightly different structures):
  • Peasant Militia - Conscripts, levies, guardsmen, etc... Lightly armed and armoured, and with little training, compared to the others. No plate, very little chain, mostly armed with spears, crossbows, bows, few swords, etc... Mostly light infantry and archers, but could include some light cavalry as well.
  • Men-at-Arms - 'Professional' Soldiers. Better training, arms and armour. For armour, mostly chain, maybe some plate for the heavier troops. Made up mostly of heavier infantry and some cavalry.
  • Knights - (For lack of a better word.)Squires, knights etc. These would be the best in terms of both training and equipment. A mixture of heavy chain mail and plate armour, but mostly mounted troops, unlike the men-at-arms tree.
3-5 Tiers in each, with the top tier of one being compareable to the 2nd or 3rd of the next in level, stats, etc.

Completely agree with you but not at the Men-at-arms. As you say, men-at-arms where "professional" soldiers that "worked" for a Lord, their guard, the core of his troops. And its expected their numbers increased during war times. But those men came from the villages as well as the militia. The difference is that they were trained veterans and well equiped instead of being recruited as cannon-fodder. So I'd keep the Sparehawk's troop tree and see the heavy infantry and horsemen (upgraded from militia) as the Men-at-arms. The Lord provides the equipment.

shevchenko65 said:
IDK man-at-arms sort of seem like mercenary troops to me. They are professional soldiers, like mercenary's, who basicly go from war to war.

Again, I think a Man-at-Arms is not the same as a mercenary. Both fight for money, make violence a way of life but IMO a man-at-arms is sopossed to have some loyalty to his lord as he wears its banner, lives in his castle, comes from his villages... Both are professional, but men-at-arms could be seen as regular troops.

Sparehawk said:
About troops' trees...

After reading all posts, I'm thinking, that there should be 3 main categories:
  • Lowborn militia - could be hired in villages, cheap, bad armor and combat skills even at higher upgrade levels. Have several troops' trees, depending on region (Basic, Dorne, North, Iron Isles)
  • Mercenaries - could be hired in taverns, quite expensive, good armor and combat skills. Have several troops' trees, depending on profession (Melee, Ranged, Mounted). Maybe, Brave Companions mechanics could be used here instead of original upgrade mechanics. Or, maybe, Companions could be just another additional tree.
  • Warriors of oath - professional soldiers and nobility. Could be hired only from prisoners and in player's own castles/cities. Not so expensive as mercenaries, almost as good in combat as them. Maybe a bit better, but not much. No upgrade trees at all or very small (no more then 2-3 positions) ones.

I'd keep the current mercenary tree that mixes mounted and melee. If I where a mercenary I'd buy a horse as soon as I could or rob it after the battle.

ser Jeekim said:
I registered just to say that this mod is terrific. I've been totally hooked to Song of Ice and Fire since I first laid my hands on it, and this game is just perfect for a Westeros-themed mod!
Triple hurrah to Sparehawk!

I'll try to give some constructive input also :smile:
5) If possible, Lannister army should be made mercenary-heavy somehow. I also support idea that mercenaries remain a separate troop tree, expensive and hireable from taverns.
Or maybe give two distinct upgrades from Horsemen: Lancers and Veteran Horse Archers? Also, please don't take out Dornish Sergeants and Master Sergeants :eek: These are my favourite troops!  :grin:

Now this may be misplaced, but I could use some help also... I've developed my character all the way to level 30, having learned only personal battle skills, STR and AGI, with a focus on two-handed and polearms. Hard fighting on tourneys has got me around 2000 renown, so my party size is 96 right now. However, with no Leadership skill whatsoever, morale is becoming a problem and I won't dare to attack those ridiculously heavily defended (250+ men) castles, as I play without reloads. Any advice?  :oops:
... and I do not even imagine, how is a city with 800 men supposed to be taken! Or is it not?

I think hedge knights fullfil that place nicely as they sell their swords and are expected to be better trained and equiped than mercenaries. About taking castles and towns, check some guides. Basically you'd need to improve leadership, take some high-level archers (crossbowmen also would fit, but are worse) and besiege the place with tons of food (to improve morale) and a large army (to reduce your enemy advantage due outnumbering you). You should equip a bow/crossbow/throwing weapons and a one-handed&shield. Or a shield with bastard sword at last so you can equip it when directly facing enemy shooters. Kill as many as you can an hit tab. Rinse and repeat. Rest to heal when needed.

Jheral said:
shevchenko65 said:
Since the Brave Companions were a pretty foul and reputably the worst of all mercenary companies, do you think we could rename them to something else?

I've been thinking about that, too, but I can't really come up with an alternative. I suppose one could just make all mercenaries that way (customizable equipment, jacks-of-all-trades in terms of skill(perhaps with some branches of the troop tree specializing more) etc...), and just call them mercenaries.

Having a special and customizable kind of mercenary company (maybe with its own banner) adds some flavout to the mod. Maybe creating a new name or giving it one from the novels would be better than the Brave companions (so you could put Vargo Hoat, Timmet, Rorge, Bitter&CO in a Lannister/Stark, depending on chronology, army around Harrenhal). Anyways, the novels handed the chance of Golden Company coming back to Westeros.

About troop trees:
-I'd add two-handed weapons to high-level infantry so not everyone is equiped with sword&shield; and some axes (even if this is only for Dornish as you created a Dornish axe and Ironmen) as not every villager is a farmer, there are lumberjacks too. The same for Northern infantry, not only axemen.
-I'd leave bowmen to Dorne, North and Stormlands, ginving crossbows to the rest. Thrown weapons for Ironmen, some Dornish and Swamp/Marsh-people (or wathever they are called in English since there is a party leaded by Howland Reed).
 
Sparehawk said:
Could you make an updated logo for 0.4.2, please? :wink:

here ya go

ASoIaF_042.bmp
 
Sparehawk said:
HokieBT said:
Sorry for the delay and the confusion, I think I may have made this change after I uploaded that zip file, so thats why you may not see it.  Anyway, I'm away from my computer but these were two of the quotes I found for Ser Alliser Thorne. I forgot exactly where I put them in the dialog but I'll try to take a look when I get home.

“That will be all,” Thorne told them. “I can only stomach so much ineptitude in any one day. If the Others ever come for us, I pray they have archers, because you lot are fit for nothing more than arrow fodder.”
http://victor-lee.com/empiresonline.net/files/Books/George%20RR%20Martin/George%20R.%20R.%20Martin%20-%20(A%20Song%20Of%20Ice%20And%20Fire%2001)%20-%20A%20Game%20of%20Thrones%20(v4)%20(HTML)/slide21.html

You are as hopeless as any boys I have ever trained,” Ser Alliser Thorne announced when they had all assembled in the yard. “Your hands were made for manure shovels, not for swords, and if it were up to me, the lot of you would be set to herding swine. But last night I was told that Gueren is marching five new boys up the kingsroad. One or two may even be worth the price of piss. To make room for them, I have decided to pass eight of you on to the Lord Commander to do with as he will.”
http://victor-lee.com/empiresonline.net/files/Books/George%20RR%20Martin/George%20R.%20R.%20Martin%20-%20(A%20Song%20Of%20Ice%20And%20Fire%2001)%20-%20A%20Game%20of%20Thrones%20(v4)%20(HTML)/slide43.html
Thanx a lot.

hmm, unfortunately I looked and I must have overwritten my modified conversation file at some point and I don't remember exactly how I modified the lines.....  I think I used the top "arrow foodder" quote for one of the lines at the end when the training is saying goodbye or evaluating your performance?  And I think I just added the words "you are hopeless as any {boys/girls} I have trained..." after you passed the first stage or training but I'd have to play the game to really try and remember....  If you can find a place for part of those quotes then great, otherwise just release 0.4.2 and maybe we can modify the dialog more in 0.5.    :smile:
 
Nahadiel said:
Completely agree with you but not at the Men-at-arms. As you say, men-at-arms where "professional" soldiers that "worked" for a Lord, their guard, the core of his troops. And its expected their numbers increased during war times. But those men came from the villages as well as the militia. The difference is that they were trained veterans and well equiped instead of being recruited as cannon-fodder. So I'd keep the Sparehawk's troop tree and see the heavy infantry and horsemen (upgraded from militia) as the Men-at-arms. The Lord provides the equipment.
I don't disagree with you. The reason I suggested they be made a seperate tree is that I wanted to make a distinction between regular and irregular soldiers, though I suppose one could just as well make an extended troop tree to cover both. That would be better, actually.

Nahadiel said:
Again, I think a Man-at-Arms is not the same as a mercenary. Both fight for money, make violence a way of life but IMO a man-at-arms is sopossed to have some loyalty to his lord as he wears its banner, lives in his castle, comes from his villages... Both are professional, but men-at-arms could be seen as regular troops.
This, on the other hand, I completely agree with (I even think I tried to say as much earlier).

Nahadiel said:
I'd keep the current mercenary tree that mixes mounted and melee. If I where a mercenary I'd buy a horse as soon as I could or rob it after the battle.
The current mercenary troop tree is too small, in my opinion. There isn't enough diversity. As I see it, the mercenary troop tree should be the biggest of all, covering just about all troop types, but requiring a lot more money to recruit and maintain, compared to the troops belonging to the different factions. 

Nahadiel said:
About troop trees:
-I'd add two-handed weapons to high-level infantry so not everyone is equiped with sword&shield; and some axes (even if this is only for Dornish as you created a Dornish axe and Ironmen) as not every villager is a farmer, there are lumberjacks too. The same for Northern infantry, not only axemen.
-I'd leave bowmen to Dorne, North and Stormlands, ginving crossbows to the rest. Thrown weapons for Ironmen, some Dornish and Swamp/Marsh-people (or wathever they are called in English since there is a party leaded by Howland Reed).
More variety in weapons would be good, yes. At the moment I get the feeling that the Northmen are just renamed Nords (which I suppose is very possible). Bows are another thing entirely, though. I seem to recall that bows were used just about everywhere(which they would be. Archery is not only for combat, you know, and hunters are likely to be everywhere, so it's a convenient skill to have. ). I got the impression that crossbows weren't all that common in the seven kingdoms.
 
Few more minor observations:
1) There is to be a typo in Alliser's lines: he says your opponent in training will be a "Reqruit".
2) Also, I believe the correct name of Oswyn, Osfryd etcl was Kettleblack. Currently they are Kettlebacks.
3) Maybe rename Targaryen Royalists to Targaryen Loyalists? Is is not like there were any Republicans is Westeros :smile:
... yeah, I am a hopeless nitpicker  :lol:
4) Would suggest to add some bandit spawning areas into Dorne and Highgarden regions of the map. Like Mountain Bandits or Desert Raiders or whatever. Currently there seems to be little to do in Dorne, unless you want to harass House Martell. Right now, all your outlaw targets seem to be in the North.
5) I hope someone can do a model of undead horse. The Others need cavalry badly. Right now, they are my favourite target - as stationary archers they are easy to kill and give great exp in return.

@Nahadiel: Thank for advice!  I already took Golden Tooth yesterday. In vanilla, my castle-taking technique was limited to storming them with Hired Blades. Had to revise that.  :wink:
As a side effect, I got ~+120 crossbow proficiency :lol:. Losses were 2 men out of 121. Looks like I won't have to waste exp points to learn Leadership as well.
Took several rounds, as I had to hunt down some Greyjoy Raiders in the meantime, to keep morale up.

 
ser Jeekim said:
Few more minor observations:
2) Also, I believe the correct name of Oswyn, Osfryd etcl was Kettleblack. Currently they are Kettlebacks.
3) Maybe rename Targaryen Royalists to Targaryen Loyalists? Is is not like there were any Republicans is Westeros :smile:
Fixed. Thanx for remark.

ser Jeekim said:
4) Would suggest to add some bandit spawning areas into Dorne and Highgarden regions of the map. Like Mountain Bandits or Desert Raiders or whatever. Currently there seems to be little to do in Dorne, unless you want to harass House Martell. Right now, all your outlaw targets seem to be in the North.
Sorry, only in next release.
 
Galen said:
1.  The map, while fantastic, feels pretty empty.  It's bigger than the normal M&B map so even having the same number of parties around makes it a long time before you can find anyone.  I'd recommend either shrinking the map just a tad, adding more entities (caravans, bandits, etc), or making the default movement/sight radius for the player larger.
I'll try to make something with it in v.0.5.

Galen said:
2.  Joffery. I went to view the vicious brat, and...his hair was BROWN!!  Gold, man, gold!  Lannister gold! :razz:
Fixed.
 
Sparehawk said:
ser Jeekim said:
I'll try to give some constructive input also :smile:
1) Noticed that according to the in-game compass, the Wall is to the south while Dorne is up North. :???: Not a big deal, but if there is an easy fix, it should be fixed :smile:
Ouch! Shame to my head... :sad: :oops: :cry:
I was so sure that North is on top of map in MapEditor, that never even look at compass...
Unfortunately, I've checked the list of available functions and existing scripts and can't find anything about ingame compass... :sad::sad:
RTFM rulez.  :grin:
Fixed.
 
Oroonin said:
One of the mapspots where parties tend to get stuck the most is on the east end of the tumblestone river, right where it ends towards KL, the other in the foothills east of Highgarden.
Well, I've totally remade landscape around that spots. Hope this helps.
 
Jheral said:
Nahadiel said:
Completely agree with you but not at the Men-at-arms. As you say, men-at-arms where "professional" soldiers that "worked" for a Lord, their guard, the core of his troops. And its expected their numbers increased during war times. But those men came from the villages as well as the militia. The difference is that they were trained veterans and well equiped instead of being recruited as cannon-fodder. So I'd keep the Sparehawk's troop tree and see the heavy infantry and horsemen (upgraded from militia) as the Men-at-arms. The Lord provides the equipment.
I don't disagree with you. The reason I suggested they be made a seperate tree is that I wanted to make a distinction between regular and irregular soldiers, though I suppose one could just as well make an extended troop tree to cover both. That would be better, actually.

I only suggested that because of it reflects the way a simple peasant becomes a veteran after many battles. His Lord is aware of his experience and gives him better equipment and a place among his better men. Btw it reduces the number of basic troops to recruit. I'm afraid I'd get mad if I had to look for farmers, men-at-arms, nobles and mercenaries in villages, towns and castles. Anyways, it wouldn't make me stop playing this great mod. :lol:

Jheral said:
Nahadiel said:
I'd keep the current mercenary tree that mixes mounted and melee. If I where a mercenary I'd buy a horse as soon as I could or rob it after the battle.
The current mercenary troop tree is too small, in my opinion. There isn't enough diversity. As I see it, the mercenary troop tree should be the biggest of all, covering just about all troop types, but requiring a lot more money to recruit and maintain, compared to the troops belonging to the different factions. 

I still don't see why a mercenary wouldn't get a horse as soon as he is able to, but you are right, it would add some fun to the mod.

Jheral said:
Nahadiel said:
-I'd leave bowmen to Dorne, North and Stormlands, ginving crossbows to the rest. Thrown weapons for Ironmen, some Dornish and Swamp/Marsh-people (or wathever they are called in English since there is a party leaded by Howland Reed).
More variety in weapons would be good, yes. At the moment I get the feeling that the Northmen are just renamed Nords (which I suppose is very possible). Bows are another thing entirely, though. I seem to recall that bows were used just about everywhere(which they would be. Archery is not only for combat, you know, and hunters are likely to be everywhere, so it's a convenient skill to have. ). I got the impression that crossbows weren't all that common in the seven kingdoms.

I'm not feel 100% confident with my memory, but I think I remember to have read more times the word crossbow in the battles. Of course, a crossbow is expected to be more expensive than a bow due its mechanical device and so, but it eliminates the need of a trained shooter. It takes a lot of training to get a good bowman while any townsman whit a crossbow gets and acceptable accuracy with a crossbow after little training. That's why powder weapons and crossbows slowly took over the battlefields as bows where left.

I was theorizing a bit when I said that. The North is huge but it is covered by snow all the time, so the crops aren't enough to feed the population and hunters are more important, and so, more numerous. Stormlands is a bit smaller than the other "reigns" and have lots of woods, so hunt would be also an important source of food and a good weapon inside the woods. Bows should easily match Dorne and its hit'n run warfare in its opened terrains. Also Dorne favors fast weapons so the bow seems a good way. So I thought the other factions couldn't find enough people proficient on bows to start traininig them as archers to achieve a big amount of archers for their armies. Lannisters, Highgarden and The Vale seem to have a lot of money so they can afford crossbows.

Anyways, whatever troops Sparehaws assigns to the different factions, I think bowmen should have bigger wages than crossbowmen, as they are trained soldiers.
 
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