A realistic Zone of Control is actually very easy to implement without increasing complexity

[Death2Tyrants]

The primary purpose of investing in a castle while on the way to attacking the interior is to protect supply lines. For example, if you stage at Diathma with the intent to siege Rhotae , the most direct route would be through the Ataconian forest.

Currently, the invaders can waltz pass Ataconia Castle because they can carry all their food with them. If they can't, they would need to establish supply lines. If there were supply lines, these caravans could be raided by the Ataconian garrison. Effectively establishing ZoC.

It's easily done because there are already mods that have achieved this to a certain degree. It just requires a bit of tweaking. The mods are Supply Lines and Improved Garrison but I'm sure there are others like it.

To make this workable, food ought to weigh a lot more. Like increase by a significant magnitude. It should not be possible to carry 300 days of food without incurring significant herd penalties. If an army wanted to carry 300 days of food, it ought to take 300 days to get to its destination.

Once food weighs more, the rest will simply fall into place. Armies will have to rely on supply lines to stay in the field. From there, it's not too difficult to introduce garrisons that sally out to raid caravans.

This will open up the game to so many more possibilities:

Merchant players could buy grain/food to jack up prices and sell to the invaders. There could be quests to protect the supply lines. Quests to raid supply lines. Strategic play of avoiding armies and attacking supply lines. This would seriously slow the kuzait juggernaut too.

Maybe armies would also stop abandoning their sieges to go buy food or worst starve enroute then get slaughtered on arrival.


Yea or nay? Already suggested?

 

[stevepine]

I have definitely heard it already discussed a few times. I don't know about formally and properly suggested... (it probably has been to be honest). It's a damn good idea though.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

Shucks. I'm not sure why it's not a thing then. It really doesn't seem all that difficult to implement.

 

[Askorti]

It's probably on the "too complex for our dynamic fast-paced combat RPG" list of features...

 

[black_bulldog]

It's probably on the "too complex for our dynamic fast-paced combat RPG" list of features...

Yeah TW has show little to no interest in any real complexity in this game, which sucks.

 

[vonbalt]

Food weighting more, spoiling like it did in warband and the AI knowing this to establish supply lines going back and forth from the nearest allied settlement to the marching army would be amazing.

they could make armies move slower and need constant supplies every few days so small parties would shine too if they could raid those supply lines making the army starve, lose soldiers and eventually get disbanded if they couldn't keep up.

If an army advanced deep into enemy territory then it would be destroyed quite easily with local garrisons ransacking their supply caravans unless they stayed in the field by raiding village after village (thus giving time for the enemy to catch them with their own army and forcing a decisive battle)

 

[Midnitewolf]

While this would be cool, it would be really hard to implement if not downright restrictive to the player.

Here is are a couple examples of what I mean.

1. You are a Vlandian Vassal and your faction is currently at peace so you decide you want to trade in the Aserai lands. How do you do this? Your not at war so you can't raid. You cargo might also be 300 day of grain but your not allowed to carry that much grain so who do you trade this?

2. Same scenario except Vlandia decides to declare war against the Aserai while your smack dab in the middle of their territory. You have already sold your grain and have just a little food but now your supply line is cut since your deep in territory you were friendly with ups to a few minutes ago with no way out. Guess your army just dies?

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

I think they should just make the AI HAVE TO take closest fief first, HAVE TO, they are compelled to by divine forces, no if ands or buts. Likewise, they HAVE TO garrison all fiefs appropriately, if not they HAVE TO go get more troops and do so. No funny business, they garrison and care for fiefs and expand logically.
A bonus would be giving Auto-calc buffs or prosperity bonuses and stuff to fiefs in proximity to each other.... but that would be close to castles actually doing something so unlikely.

It doesn't matter if the solo player does shenanigans with this (or it could not apply to player owned faction), the player doing underhanded things to the AI is the entire game.

I understand this would require other AII war/peace changes, but I think it's better to start with something that makes sense and adjust other things, rather then start with a cluster **** of un-seen calculations that just makes players mad.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

While this would be cool, it would be really hard to implement if not downright restrictive to the player.

Here is are a couple examples of what I mean.

1. You are a Vlandian Vassal and your faction is currently at peace so you decide you want to trade in the Aserai lands. How do you do this? Your not at war so you can't raid. You cargo might also be 300 day of grain but your not allowed to carry that much grain so who do you trade this?

2. Same scenario except Vlandia decides to declare war against the Aserai while your smack dab in the middle of their territory. You have already sold your grain and have just a little food but now your supply line is cut since your deep in territory you were friendly with ups to a few minutes ago with no way out. Guess your army just dies?

1. There should be a system where you can disband or furlough troops without deleting them, and well worn trade routes that aren't covered in bandits so you don't need a small army to follow you when you're just transporting grain.

2. Wars should have plenty of warning before they start. It's ridiculous how wars still just instantly begin without any player input or anything.

 

[Apocal]

Yea or nay? Already suggested?

Already suggested. The dude responsible for that kinda stuff ignored it.

 

[Marajah]

The primary purpose of investing in a castle while on the way to attacking the interior is to protect supply lines. For example, if you stage at Diathma with the intent to siege Rhotae , the most direct route would be through the Ataconian forest.

Currently, the invaders can waltz pass Ataconia Castle because they can carry all their food with them. If they can't, they would need to establish supply lines. If there were supply lines, these caravans could be raided by the Ataconian garrison. Effectively establishing ZoC.

It's easily done because there are already mods that have achieved this to a certain degree. It just requires a bit of tweaking. The mods are Supply Lines and Improved Garrison but I'm sure there are others like it.

To make this workable, food ought to weigh a lot more. Like increase by a significant magnitude. It should not be possible to carry 300 days of food without incurring significant herd penalties. If an army wanted to carry 300 days of food, it ought to take 300 days to get to its destination.

Once food weighs more, the rest will simply fall into place. Armies will have to rely on supply lines to stay in the field. From there, it's not too difficult to introduce garrisons that sally out to raid caravans.

This will open up the game to so many more possibilities:

Merchant players could buy grain/food to jack up prices and sell to the invaders. There could be quests to protect the supply lines. Quests to raid supply lines. Strategic play of avoiding armies and attacking supply lines. This would seriously slow the kuzait juggernaut too.

Maybe armies would also stop abandoning their sieges to go buy food or worst starve enroute then get slaughtered on arrival.


Yea or nay? Already suggested?

Seems very interesting. It also seems very complex both to implement and to gameplay, to be honest.
You'd have to reorganize AI priorities to establish/attack/defend supply lines, program garrisons to attack supply lines, to refill after they lose some men, to avoid combat if the supply caravans had a bigger force accompanying it than they could handle, etc, etc. The AI can barely decide to carry out an assault if they run out of food with a clear chance of victory atm, deciding to cease hostilities and run back to restock.
For gameplay, it would add a completely new layer of complexity that the devs seem to be running away from as much as possible.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

While this would be cool, it would be really hard to implement if not downright restrictive to the player.

Here is are a couple examples of what I mean.

1. You are a Vlandian Vassal and your faction is currently at peace so you decide you want to trade in the Aserai lands. How do you do this? Your not at war so you can't raid. You cargo might also be 300 day of grain but your not allowed to carry that much grain so who do you trade this?

2. Same scenario except Vlandia decides to declare war against the Aserai while your smack dab in the middle of their territory. You have already sold your grain and have just a little food but now your supply line is cut since your deep in territory you were friendly with ups to a few minutes ago with no way out. Guess your army just dies?

Not at all. In fact, this would make the game better. You're talking about bringing your army to trade which is actually ridiculous, don't you agree?

If you're going to trade, trade without your army.

 

[Death2Tyrants]

Seems very interesting. It also seems very complex both to implement and to gameplay, to be honest.
You'd have to reorganize AI priorities to establish/attack/defend supply lines, program garrisons to attack supply lines, to refill after they lose some men, to avoid combat if the supply caravans had a bigger force accompanying it than they could handle, etc, etc. The AI can barely decide to carry out an assault if they run out of food with a clear chance of victory atm, deciding to cease hostilities and run back to restock.
For gameplay, it would add a completely new layer of complexity that the devs seem to be running away from as much as possible.

Well thank you for your interest. In terms of complexity to implement, it's already been done more or less by modders. Tweaking it to work for AI isn't that terribly more difficult either. It might seem more complex for the AI but to be frank, the current "AI" is quite shoddy. I won't go into that but we could in another thread if you like. Let's just say even without implementing this idea, it needs a lot of work.

Gameplay wise, if I were to base supply lines on the modder's implementation, it wouldn't add a new layer of complexity in terms of actions. Basically, the closest town checks to see if the army has enough food and if it doesn't, it sends out a convoy. Player's involvement? Absolutely zero.

It would add complexity in terms of strategy, i.e. decision making. But that ought to be the whole point of a strategy game?

I think the devs really need to reconsider their desire to turn Bannerlords into a FPS. There will not be a Bannerlords II if they do so.

 

[darksoulshin]

The primary purpose of investing in a castle while on the way to attacking the interior is to protect supply lines. For example, if you stage at Diathma with the intent to siege Rhotae , the most direct route would be through the Ataconian forest.

Currently, the invaders can waltz pass Ataconia Castle because they can carry all their food with them. If they can't, they would need to establish supply lines. If there were supply lines, these caravans could be raided by the Ataconian garrison. Effectively establishing ZoC.

It's easily done because there are already mods that have achieved this to a certain degree. It just requires a bit of tweaking. The mods are Supply Lines and Improved Garrison but I'm sure there are others like it.

To make this workable, food ought to weigh a lot more. Like increase by a significant magnitude. It should not be possible to carry 300 days of food without incurring significant herd penalties. If an army wanted to carry 300 days of food, it ought to take 300 days to get to its destination.

Once food weighs more, the rest will simply fall into place. Armies will have to rely on supply lines to stay in the field. From there, it's not too difficult to introduce garrisons that sally out to raid caravans.

This will open up the game to so many more possibilities:

Merchant players could buy grain/food to jack up prices and sell to the invaders. There could be quests to protect the supply lines. Quests to raid supply lines. Strategic play of avoiding armies and attacking supply lines. This would seriously slow the kuzait juggernaut too.

Maybe armies would also stop abandoning their sieges to go buy food or worst starve enroute then get slaughtered on arrival.


Yea or nay? Already suggested?

ECONOMY , LOGISTICS and WARFARE SUGGESTION LIST

2 of the 4 threads I wrote are about:
- logistics and supply lines
- marching formations, ambushes, encampments, etc.

They are very in-depth threads and go into great detail while keeping in mind how to make such introductions possible using game assets.
Each of these threads took several days of puzzling.
For now I am working on the one on sieges which has already taken me a few months of time (always related to these 4 threads ... so it will be added to the list when it is ready)

 

[Seafoodking]

It's probably on the "too complex for our dynamic fast-paced combat RPG" list of features...

TW's fast-paced combat RPG is nothing but repetitive wars that feels the same on every battles.

 

[Seafoodking]

The primary purpose of investing in a castle while on the way to attacking the interior is to protect supply lines. For example, if you stage at Diathma with the intent to siege Rhotae , the most direct route would be through the Ataconian forest.

Currently, the invaders can waltz pass Ataconia Castle because they can carry all their food with them. If they can't, they would need to establish supply lines. If there were supply lines, these caravans could be raided by the Ataconian garrison. Effectively establishing ZoC.

It's easily done because there are already mods that have achieved this to a certain degree. It just requires a bit of tweaking. The mods are Supply Lines and Improved Garrison but I'm sure there are others like it.

To make this workable, food ought to weigh a lot more. Like increase by a significant magnitude. It should not be possible to carry 300 days of food without incurring significant herd penalties. If an army wanted to carry 300 days of food, it ought to take 300 days to get to its destination.

Once food weighs more, the rest will simply fall into place. Armies will have to rely on supply lines to stay in the field. From there, it's not too difficult to introduce garrisons that sally out to raid caravans.

This will open up the game to so many more possibilities:

Merchant players could buy grain/food to jack up prices and sell to the invaders. There could be quests to protect the supply lines. Quests to raid supply lines. Strategic play of avoiding armies and attacking supply lines. This would seriously slow the kuzait juggernaut too.

Maybe armies would also stop abandoning their sieges to go buy food or worst starve enroute then get slaughtered on arrival.


Yea or nay? Already suggested?

While I think this is an awesome idea and would make the game more strategic, the problem lies upon the AI. We all know the AI is dumb, supply lines sound fun, but I'm quite sure the AI won't be smart enough, and the players can exploit the AI even further.

 

[Midnitewolf]

1. There should be a system where you can disband or furlough troops without deleting them, and well worn trade routes that aren't covered in bandits so you don't need a small army to follow you when you're just transporting grain.

2. Wars should have plenty of warning before they start. It's ridiculous how wars still just instantly begin without any player input or anything.

I have to agree about number 2 above. When my faction is declaring war, there should be at least several days warning and your faction should start moving troops to the expected warzone well in advance of the war.

 

[froggyluv]

ECONOMY , LOGISTICS and WARFARE SUGGESTION LIST

2 of the 4 threads I wrote are about:
- logistics and supply lines
- marching formations, ambushes, encampments, etc.

They are very in-depth threads and go into great detail while keeping in mind how to make such introductions possible using game assets.
Each of these threads took several days of puzzling.
For now I am working on the one on sieges which has already taken me a few months of time (always related to these 4 threads ... so it will be added to the list when it is ready)

Hey man i really like your well thought out ideas - any plans on taking on the modding challenge at any point? Really want to play the game you envision

 

[darksoulshin]

Hey man i really like your well thought out ideas - any plans on taking on the modding challenge at any point? Really want to play the game you envision

Unfortunately I am not a modder, I study physics and mathematics and it is already a lot if I find the time to write these threads, trying to be as clear as possible and to simplify the work for those who, if interested, want to apply what I write.
They are aimed at developers or some modder who can program them, but clearly community support is needed to take them into consideration.

 

[StewVader]

The primary purpose of investing in a castle while on the way to attacking the interior is to protect supply lines. For example, if you stage at Diathma with the intent to siege Rhotae , the most direct route would be through the Ataconian forest.

Currently, the invaders can waltz pass Ataconia Castle because they can carry all their food with them. If they can't, they would need to establish supply lines. If there were supply lines, these caravans could be raided by the Ataconian garrison. Effectively establishing ZoC.

It's easily done because there are already mods that have achieved this to a certain degree. It just requires a bit of tweaking. The mods are Supply Lines and Improved Garrison but I'm sure there are others like it.

To make this workable, food ought to weigh a lot more. Like increase by a significant magnitude. It should not be possible to carry 300 days of food without incurring significant herd penalties. If an army wanted to carry 300 days of food, it ought to take 300 days to get to its destination.

Once food weighs more, the rest will simply fall into place. Armies will have to rely on supply lines to stay in the field. From there, it's not too difficult to introduce garrisons that sally out to raid caravans.

This will open up the game to so many more possibilities:

Merchant players could buy grain/food to jack up prices and sell to the invaders. There could be quests to protect the supply lines. Quests to raid supply lines. Strategic play of avoiding armies and attacking supply lines. This would seriously slow the kuzait juggernaut too.

Maybe armies would also stop abandoning their sieges to go buy food or worst starve enroute then get slaughtered on arrival.


Yea or nay? Already suggested?

Hate to say it dude. But they will NEVER implement this. They have no intention of making this game immersive, strategic, or "complex". They simply want a hack and slash action game with "a sprinkling of RPG/Strategic" elements.

The vanilla game will always be bad. We can only hope that master modders make the game good.