A question for forum moderators

[Kenzo-0-]

Why are you talking to me? I'm not talking to or about you.

Aight i'll take your word on that. But i was one of the only two ppl who said they were mods and your second reply was obviously for me.
I just didn't like how high your nose was but i don't feel like replying to you anymore since there is no point. Sorry if i said something wrong

 

[Lord Brutus]

Alright settle down everyone, this thread is just **** flinging. On another note, nice to see you still hang around Brutus.

Did you think that the time I gave you a temporary ban?

 

[Fietta]

Did you think that the time I gave you a temporary ban?

How could I forget? I'll never forgive you old man! Now look at me

 

[Lord Brutus]

How could I forget? I'll never forgive you old man! Now look at me

Your reclamation is a source of never-ending wonder.

 

[Fietta]

Your reclamation is a source of never-ending wonder.

Now now, be nice

 

[Lord Brutus]

That was nice. Sorry if you misinterpreted it.

 

[markp27]

One thing that has been good other than at the start of this thread, is that everyone has been able to debate a topic with no accusations of trolling

Especially as a lot of the thread has been about baiting

 

[danEN]

One thing that has been good other than at the start of this thread, is that everyone has been able to debate a topic with no accusations of trolling

Especially as a lot of the thread has been about baiting

I'm pretty sure musashi was the only one who actually accused people of that though.

 

[NLCRich]

You're absolutely right, it did take too long - usually we'd reply or lock troublesome threads before it becomes far too heated, but in this case, that didn't happen. Beforehand, there was only one moderator in the section (Brandis) and since this particular section has numerous reports, it was decided that he may need a helping hand, so both @Piconi and myself were added to the section (today). It isn't the fault of Brandis either, it's just that extra people were needed from other sections to ensure the large amount of reports from this section are handled.

As always, we appreciate the feedback and next time we'd be much faster and now with more moderators to help out in this particular area; we hope this doesn't happen again. On another note, the moderators are voluntary, meaning the majority of the moderators could potentially be busy with work or something of the similar sort, but reports are still usually handled within 24 hours (unless it's a larger issue).

Hey guys, I wanted to post in here and say that I feel like the moderation has improved in the Citadel and I appreciate the presence there of @Fietta and @Piconi .

 

[Cri11e]

As do I; you have my consent to share it if you really want to, or I could, if you want me to.

You have my permission to share the emails on the condition that you don't dox me by mentioning my real name to someone not under a taleworlds NDA.
I'm happy that we can finally talk genuinely about the 'professionalism' exercised towards the users of this forum.

 

[markp27]

You have my permission to share the emails on the condition that you don't dox me by mentioning my real name to someone not under a taleworlds NDA.
I'm happy that we can finally talk genuinely about the 'professionalism' exercised towards the users of this forum.

Which means none of the moderators as they have stated that none of them have signed an NDA. So that limits it to very few staff

 

[Orion]

Which means none of the moderators as they have stated that none of them have signed an NDA. So that limits it to very few staff

Contents of the discussion could be shared so long as no email addresses, names, or other PI is displayed. At that point it's the same as two users posting publicly on this forum.

 

[markp27]

Contents of the discussion could be shared so long as no email addresses, names, or other PI is displayed. At that point it's the same as two users posting publicly on this forum.

Do not disagree there. Which would include ip addresses too, as mods cannot have access to them either.

 

[Lord Brutus]

I assure you IP address is part of the personal information Orion is referring to. Global Moderators do have access to your IP address however.

 

[Count Delinard]

We used to until the new forums came along, we don’t see IP addresses or emails anymore. GDPR took that away from us.

 

[Lord Brutus]

Very bad idea.

 

[markp27]

Very bad idea.

Good idea unless they are willing to sign NDA's. Those ip's can be given to hackers, with no NDA's and TaleWorlds would be the ones liable for it.

 

[Janus]

You have my permission to share the emails on the condition that you don't dox me by mentioning my real name to someone not under a taleworlds NDA.
I'm happy that we can finally talk genuinely about the 'professionalism' exercised towards the users of this forum.

Very well.

Cri11e received a 1-point warning (which as mentioned, has no consequences unless a person reaches 4+ points within a month, and is used to let a user know they should change their behaviour) for starting this thread:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/an-auto-blocking-option-was-added-for-single-player.427856/

The explanation for the minor warning and the thread being locked is posted at the end of the thread.

Hello,

I was recently issued a warning onto my account by a moderator called IceNoVa. Due to a thread I had made quite innocently. This moderator seemed to be convinced that it was in violation of forum rules under ''abusive, overly aggressive, threatening, or to "troll"''. My reason for sending this email is to suggest that his discretion in applying and carrying out of forum rules be investigated and adjusted accordingly. This moderator is fostering a hostile and uninviting environment who is sure to scare newer users of the forum away; We can already see a slight sub-culture emerging whose aim is to ridicule the moderators and by extention the game itself by lowering the bar of both warnings, mutes and bans.

I'm sending this email out of concern for one of my favourite games and forums, who I wish the best for..

I don't have any history of trolling on the forums and I'm a long standing member, with all my identity, steam profile etc. connected/revealed. How could this moderator reasonably suspect I had any bad intention when posting? It is seems that I was not even given the benefit of the doubt and was punished for other peoples' posting in my thread. A strange decision to say the least especially since my account is not a on-the-fence kind of account.

Of course perhaps the persona he perceived in me gave him the impression of a ''troll'' but thats unwarranted and unsubstantiated conclusion about my personality of which my post history on the forums can testify, I would expect that a moderator should judge rightly and not infer his own bias and impression on a potential infraction.

By his lack of judgement he has defiled my account, I must now live with an blemish on my previously spotless record of 8 years, a less dedicated user would leave permanently at this point or even worse and more likely, join the emerging sub-culture in defiance, which I must admit did cross my mind when considering the injustice. Like I told him in the picture above.. Its severely disappointing being mistaken as having bad intentions when its the opposite.

Furthermore he has still not answered my response to his private warning message, thats a sign of questionable work ethics more aligned on power display than sound judgement i.e. A untouchable with no accountability. As a Moderator his duty should be to explain why someone gets reprimanded, if the Moderator turns out to be mistaken he should apologize or at least inform of a reversion, not ignore me.

I'm leaving this incident into the hands of the forum administration so I can put it behind me and move on; I trust the administration to know what to do and to consider the consequences of moderation in general but also specifically about this moderator. Its my hope that moderation will be rectified to a more forgiving and open stance especially in what could appear as vague or grey cases i.e. Raising the bar of forum infringement. Otherwise we risk escalating the process already ongoing whereas users mistake the Moderation for company attitude. Its unwise to let moderators act in a way that is perceived as inadvertent and overly strict it will lead only to more contention.

I would like to finish with thanks to ''Kiron'' the Global Moderator that explained who is handling this email address I'm sending to. ?

Well wishes & kind regards,
<name removed>

Note the bold part was bolded by me, just to point out the part among this long message that particularly stood out to us as rather hyperbolic.

As always, I post e-mails sent to the [email protected] address in a private board here for discussion among our global moderators as to how the case should be handled. Of course, normally these are for people who are banned or muted.
This case was discussed and it was agreed that the 1-point warning was reasonable and that Cri11e's email above was a bit over the top.

We've briefly discussed it and feel that the trivial 1-point warning was reasonable for what you posted. As you should be aware, a warning has no consequences unless you earn 4 warning points within a month.

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?help/forum-rules/#2.4

If you feel that your account has been "defiled" by this 1-point warning, as your long message here also indicates, I can only imagine how you would feel about receiving a warning which had actual consequences included with it.

This is the rest of the e-mail chain.

Hello,

Thank you for your response. Was also my real reason for sending the email discussed? I.e. the effects of these ''trivial'' warnings on newcomers to the forum.
I'm very surprised to hear an sarcastic-ish tone in your reply which makes me anxious and fearful because you did not write your name which is custom, while I did..

You admit yourself that you noticed I cared about the long message I sent, yet you still give me a insensitive dismissal like that, why?

Kind regards,
<name removed>

I (the one who almost always writes the replies to e-mails) am Janus. As mentioned, your e-mail and attachments were posted for discussion, and we were in consensus. You have received your response.

Seeing as you somehow do not apparently understand the stated reason for why you were warned, I'm surprised you haven't been in trouble before now.

If newcomers act similarly and rightly receive a minor warning such as that, and then they choose to leave the forums because of it, then that is entirely on them. Just as your trivial warning which you seem to have gotten so massively worked up about is entirely on you.

Thank you Janus, then I understand the forum stance and that I was treated according to established internal consensus.
Even though my entire post and intention was positive as I explained to the Moderator. I don't know how I should have known..

I can tell that you have very little experience with handling customers otherwise you would have treated me differently.
Even if a complaint is dismissed, if you treat them kindly with affirmation they will just accept whatever decision without making fuss.

Instead you have just belittled my reason for being upset from the start, thank you for your professionalism.

Don't answer this email, I'm just getting more disappointed the further I go into this rabbit hole.

I would also like to note that the consequence-free 1-point warning remains the only action taken against Cri11e's account.

 

[markp27]

Very well.

Cri11e received a 1-point warning (which as mentioned, has no consequences unless a person reaches 4+ points within a month, and is used to let a user know they should change their behaviour) for starting this thread:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/an-auto-blocking-option-was-added-for-single-player.427856/

The explanation for the minor warning and the thread being locked is posted at the end of the thread.


Note the bold part was bolded by me, just to point out the part among this long message that particularly stood out to us as rather hyperbolic.

As always, I post e-mails sent to the [email protected] address in a private board here for discussion among our global moderators as to how the case should be handled. Of course, normally these are for people who are banned or muted.
This case was discussed and it was agreed that the 1-point warning was reasonable and that Cri11e's email above was a bit over the top.



This is the rest of the e-mail chain.




I would also like to note that the consequence-free 1-point warning remains the only action taken against Cri11e's account.

Just a quick note on this. Could you bold and underline it next time as it was hard to spot what was in bold until I used zoom

 

[Lord Brutus]

Good idea unless they are willing to sign NDA's. Those ip's can be given to hackers, with no NDA's and TaleWorlds would be the ones liable for it.

As a former global moderator I can say, without fear of contradiction, that I don't need to be reminded by you what the consequences might be nor who would be liable, and that no global moderator on this forum would consider what you suggest, with or without an NDA. Having the ip address makes tracking down dupes of previously banned users so much easier.