A Question About Swadian Unit Names

[iamdanthemanstan]

This is probably a little of topic but with an eye towards history. The Swadian names seem to be based of a mix of English and French. The names for the cavalry and particularly French: We have "Ecuyer" or Esquire a rank just below that of knight, "Chevalier" or simply Knight, "Chevalier Banneret" or a Knight Bannert, a knight who fought under his own banner as up posed to a knight bachelor. But I don't quite get the top one, "Baron Mineures," is this supposed to be a Baronet, a non-peerage position similar to but above a knight? I don't think there is a French equivalent to that position. Where did "Baron Mineures" come from?

 

[rbcarter101]

You could use an editing tool and edit it yourself. Dont lynch me if Im wrong, but I believe there's a feature in v2.5 that allows you edit the troop trees in game.

 

[iamdanthemanstan]

Sorry maybe I didn't explain my question clearly. I don't want to change it, it's fine with me, I just want to know where it comes from.

 

[monnikje]

Since I don't speak all the languages present in the troop trees, I originally used a lot of wikipedia, dictionaries, other sites, Oddball's tree and Medieval Total War to get the names. Sometimes this posed quite some problems, since there weren't at that time in every culture enough similar ranks to fill every unit in the tree. So I used sometimes some liberties. This didn't always work too well. Luckily some people helped me with the languages, as you can see in this topic.

The following languages were used:
Swadia: English and French. Lion has made quite some corrections for the French part of the tree.
Vaegir: Russian. Shapic made some extensive corrections.
Khergit: Mongolian. I still hope that someone who actually speaks Mongolian will one day have a look at it.
Nord: Old Norse, Medieval English, Ancient Swedish and some Danish. Narfi made quite some corrections.
Rhodok: Italian. Robis made quite some corrections.
Sarranid: Turkish and Arabic. I still hope that someone who actually speaks both languages has a look at it.
Mercenaries: German. Duh and Floh made some corrections there.
Sword Sisters: Dutch, German, English, French... It's pretty hard to find enough suitable woman names / ranks.

Originally the four French tiers of cavalery were named as following:
C4 Swadian Lancier de Mailles -> C5 Swadian Chevalier Legere -> C6 Swadian Lancier -> C7 Swadian Chevalier
This was corrected by Lion into:
C4 Swadian Ecuyer -> C5 Swadian Chevalier -> C6 Swadian Chevalier Banneret -> C7 Swadian Baron

This is what he said about that:

Here mor information of my choices for the knight line
* page : a young noble man in waiting to be a squire
* Ecuyer : the squire, a young noble man enought old to be granted the right to follow his knight master in the field and carry his weapons.
* Chevalier : well... the classical knight.
* Chevalier Banneret : created by Philippe II Auguste, the term banneret is given to a knight powerful enought to have 25 knight as vassals. He is given the rights of : carrying a banner and war cry to rally troop under him.
* Chevalier Baron : it's not the title rank, the term baron was also used to describe the most powerfull noble of the realm, their real rank in the nobility could be baron, count or Duke so the big guys.

That's where the Baron comes from. But there were already Swadian noblemen called 'Baron' in the game. So later I renamed the units to 'Minor Barons', or in French: 'Baron Mineures', to make a clear distinction between the Barons that own stuff and barons that are just awesome knights with a fancy military rank.

 

[effemb]

have had a good few laughs at alot of the nord names
very well researched, made me smile...

dont know the languages that affect the other trees but they all sound very well researched as well.  a turkish friend had a good few laughs at khergits when i got him to try out floris.  he said exact same thing, that its mix of arabic and turkish.

very impressive work on the naming though.  felt a bit ashamed to have to put in some changes on my tree, maybe the same people can correct it for me if they feel inclined?
mostly the rhodok legionary troops (took them from rome:total war), and a few switch arounds i made in sarranid and vaegir.  nord is fine, i know swedish .

(btw, who made all those nordic weapons, down at the bottom of the weapons list?  lots of funny names ... i like em!)

 

[iamdanthemanstan]

While we're on the subject of names where did "palantinus" for the companions come form, and does it even change?

 

[effemb]

While we're on the subject of names where did "palantinus" for the companions come form, and does it even change?

export, edit, import.
personally didnt like the name changing scheme for the companions much
Palantinus Floris stays the way he is though, as dibs to the mod maker ;p, but ive played mnb since beta, far too long to have my 'ol marnid, firentis, borcha being given funky titles now  

 

[2s1ckk]

From google:

Definition for palatinus:
A palatine or palatinus (in Latin; plural palatini; cf. derivative spellings below) was a high-level official attached to imperial or royal courts in Europe since Roman times.. From the Oxford English Dictionary. Retrieved November 19, 2008. ....
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palatinus

 

[monnikje]

The companion titles (along with the other titles) are part of the Expanded nobility title system kit I added. I didn't change the companion titles from that script, so they came from there. These are the companion titles:

If you meet a companion in a tavern, (s)he has a title reflecting their abilities:
- No special abilities:"Hero
- A diplomat: Missi
- A tactician:Tassein
- A scout: Ausculare
- A physician: Fisique
- A trader: Empori
Once the companion joins your party, he is given the title Palantinus, regardless of his skills.
If you appoint him as lord, he becomes like the other nobles, and receives a title accordingly.

 

[rbcarter101]

Yes, but what does Palantinus mean?

 

[2s1ckk]

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[iamdanthemanstan]

I saw that definition also using google but I'm not sure if it's the same word. Also in the game if you go to edit the character name it doesn't stick, why is this?

 

[effemb]

haha, so missi means diplomat.
didnt catch that one.  thought you were maybe a bit of a bisexual there, monnikje...amsterdam and all ;p hehe

but those titles, they are purposefully dropped soon as you recruit the companion?
would have been interesting if they kept their title in the group.

still...nobody go callin my girl ymira "palantinus"...or matheld will throw an axe in their face.

 

[2s1ckk]

@iamdan: I should imagine so, or one of its derivatives. It fits the scope they fill, roughly. Apart from in Calradia, they fight but everybody fights in Calradia. I should imagine the makers of Expanded nobility title system kit either spelt it wrong, or got their information from another source that spells it differently. After all, in Floris mod pack and the mods it uses, the game doesn't truly start until you reach nobility anyway, so the term is warranted. Also, the time scale from which Palatinus was used smacks WB right in the middle of it.

Also, IIRC, you can't change the companions name's at all without using troops.txt (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[monnikje]

Indeed, the names of the companions need to be changed in troops.txt (or module_troops.py for the ones who use the module system). The titles need to be changed in strings.txt (or module_strings.py)..

If you have better suggestions for the companion titles, I'd love to hear them .

 

[2s1ckk]

Ideally, for me at least, the names would be editable in-game. Is that possible?

 

[Caba`drin]

Ideally, for me at least, the names would be editable in-game. Is that possible?

Not for non-hero troops. Names for non-hero troops (so for all soldiers that aren't the player, a companion, a lord, a named merchant, etc) are not stored in savegames, but rather loaded from the .txt file each time the game is started. And, since the game cannot edit the .txt files from within the game, it is impossible to edit troop names in-game. But, Morgh's Tools makes it quite easy...or just opening the .txt files in something like Notepad++ that has batch-change/replace features.

For companions, if you tick "Enable Edit Mode" in the launcher config, when in game you can scroll through all the characters in the Character Window. There, you should be able to edit the names of companions.

Also, I'm considering coding an option for 2.5 that allows people to disable the expanded nobility titles, which would also remove all titles from companions. Might that be what you'd be after?

 

[2s1ckk]

Thanks, I'll try out the edit mode tomorrow when I'm not busy. I take it this should be permanent, right? For that savegame at least?

As for the nobility system, it's only the companions I'm really worried about. Although it was nice when it was just a different title per faction, it made it easier to work out who they're with.

 

[Caba`drin]

Thanks, I'll try out the edit mode tomorrow when I'm not busy. I take it this should be permanent, right? For that savegame at least?

Yes, it should. But I haven't tried it in some time so I can't say with confidence.

 

[rbcarter101]

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Hahaha. Didnt even notice that...