A question about supply lines, choke points, zone control, etc....all of the dev blogs said once

[dannazgu]

So, I was reredaing again one the Dev Blogs.. And they said that those crazy expeditions deeper in enemy territory would end, and further you go into enemy lands, more easily to lose supplies. Proximity was the main factor for wars, etc...
I really hope that gets implemented, because if they do... Wars and startegy will be much more of a challenge than the current situation. I don't need a Dev answer, but if they do I'd appriciate very much as long they can read and understand.
The Blogs showed different kind of wars than we have right now, this is being working on I hope. The main problem is a captured castle well deep in the enemies lands that's almost impossible to come to rescue, zone of controls should also be implemented of course, at least like this: if you want pass over a castle well good, but you should leave a small force to besiege that castle so the zone of control will diminish.
Supplies.... This is too easy, i can be well away from my lands that still i get supplies, there should be some kind of penalty for that. Supply lines are important.
So, far that's all I recall.

Thanks, great weekend everyone

 

[hruza]

You need food to sustain armies. That apply both to the player and AI. Without food armies fall apart. As far as I know and unless it was changed in some of the more recent patches, AI can't buy food from enemy settlements. And that makes conquests of towns and castles deep in the enemy territory more difficult. Player is not restricted so far, that might have been done for game play purposes.

So supply is implemented in the game already.

As for zone of control ...that's an abstract feature of strategic games. In real life there are no magic zones of control. M&B is not strategic game and zones of control would make no sense in the M&B.

 

[svennd]

once you have farmed a bit of horses and mules you can carry enough grain for the entire world... so i hope they restrict even users a bit.

 

[hruza]

once you have farmed a bit of horses and mules you can carry enough grain for the entire world... so i hope they restrict even users a bit.

Once number of horses and mules exceeds herding limit, your party gets slowed down. When you load on tons of food, you won't be able to carry and sell loot. When you acquire lot of pack animals, you won't be able to have lot of riding horses without exceeding the limit and that will slow you down as well. Not to mention that you don't get horses for free. Therefore it's matter of priorities and costs versus rewards. As it should be.

 

[svennd]

Once number of horses and mules exceeds herding limit, your party gets solved down. When you load on tons of food, you won't be able to carry and sell loot. Not to mention that you don't get horses for free. Therefore it's matter of priorities and costs versus rewards. As it should be.

dunno but in my current play i can carry 9k weight and enough food for 300 days and i never bought a horse.

 

[hruza]

dunno but in my current play i can carry 9k weight and enough food for 300 days and i never bought a horse.

You forgot that you are +++ days in to your campaign. I said you don't get horses for free, which you did not. I didn't say you have to buy them.

 

[dannazgu]

You need food to sustain armies. That apply both to the player and AI. Without food armies fall apart. As far as I know and unless it was changed in some of the more recent patches, AI can't buy food from enemy settlements. And that makes conquests of towns and castles deep in the enemy territory more difficult. Player is not restricted so far, that might have been done for game play purposes.

So supply is implemented in the game already.

As for zone of control ...that's an abstract feature of strategic games. In real life there are no magic zones of control. M&B is not strategic game and zones of control would make no sense in the M&B.

None said magical zones... But, if you want talk in real, ok. If an medieval army back then in middle ages or even ancient times, left their supplies lines open in their backs, by bypassing towns and enemies forts the enemies harass you and your foragers.. your consume of food is limited and you start losing even more deeper you go, because you're losing your foragers and your soldiers keep eating, if you rationate you may have a mutinity. There, that's your real life medieval armies. The game may not be labelled as strategy, but has features of it and most essentialy Bannerlord liking or not has a mix of both rpg and startegy, the latter can be fewer than the forme, but still... And back in Dev Blogs they said something like this would appear on the game, I was just hoping to se when, because it's too easy so far even playing realsitic everything

 

[Lord Bryggan]

I can wander anywhere I want, right past enemy cities and castles, which seems a little ridiculous. And so can caravans and villagers, so it really doesn't matter where your fiefs are.

I'd suggest that the garrison of each fief should have an area of control where they'd leave the fief and attack anything that has less than 50% their strength.

This would give certain castles and towns significant strategic value. Caravans, villagers would be forced to take longer routes which would hurt economically. Also small armies can't zip around raiding villages.

Pathfinding would have to be fixed; showing enemy control zones as a mountain or river so the AI doesn't do its stupid back and forth dealie.

What I would also really like is if instead of being able to carry a year's supply of food, every army would have to hire an NPC caravan to run back and forth to get you goods... and maybe recruits. You could transfer their men to your party, weakening them but then they'd go do your recruiting for you.

This would make supply lines very important, and I don't think it would be too complicated for the AI too adopt. Plus AI armies wouldn't run out of food all the time.

 

[hruza]

None said magical zones... But, if you want talk in real, ok. If an medieval army back then in middle ages or even ancient times, left their supplies lines open in their backs, by bypassing towns and enemies forts the enemies harass you and your foragers.. your consume of food is limited and you start losing even more deeper you go, because you're losing your foragers and your soldiers keep eating, if you rationate you may have a mutinity.

I think you overestimate what "supply line" was to a pre modern army and how important it was. If you imagine wagons with food moving from depots in a homeland along the roads to the field kitchens somewhere in the enemy territory, then you are deeply mistaken.

You need to realize two things:

1. In pre modern times, you could move cargo in bulk at long distances only on ships. Animal drawn cart is not an option because animals need to eat, and they will eat all the food they carry long before they reach destination.

2. Food spoils very quickly without preservation and in pre modern times, methods of preservation were very limited.

Therefore pre modern armies lived off the land almost from the moment they crossed border to the enemy territory. Exception were cases when armies could be supplied from ships.

This is why Crusaders could reach Jerusalem, why Vikings could raid Paris, why Hannibal could invade Italy across Alps, why Henry V could start his French campaign in Harfleur, march almost all the way to St. Quentin, defeat French army at Agincount and end in Calais. If they would have been subjects to anything close to what you suggest as "supply lines", non of that would be possible.

 

[RoboSenshi]

I made a suggestion about this issue. Check it out. It may not be exactly what you want though:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/supply-line-simulation-re-post.428655/#post-9506051

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

You need food to sustain armies. That apply both to the player and AI. Without food armies fall apart. As far as I know and unless it was changed in some of the more recent patches, AI can't buy food from enemy settlements. And that makes conquests of towns and castles deep in the enemy territory more difficult. Player is not restricted so far, that might have been done for game play purposes.

So supply is implemented in the game already.

It is theoretically, but the map would need to be about 100x bigger, or travel be 100x slower, for it to have any effect. Right now you can circumnavigate Calradia about 10 times with an army of 200 men by just filling your inventory with grain. You can stockpile mules by the hundreds and never have to worry about running out.

 

[Rhaskos]

Has anyone made a list or post detailing the disconnect between what we have and the game the dev blogs were talking about? Seems like totally different projects

 

[hruza]

It is theoretically, but the map would need to be about 100x bigger, or travel be 100x slower, for it to have any effect. Right now you can circumnavigate Calradia about 10 times with an army of 200 men by just filling your inventory with grain. You can stockpile mules by the hundreds and never have to worry about running out.

It does have effect. I saw AI army break siege because it run out of food plenty of times. There were even patching AI behavior at some point to make AI more likely to buy food.

It's true that it does little to the player, but I guess if it would, we would have plenty of angry threads here instead.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

The AI is bugged, it straight up doesn't bother to stockpile food and will starve down to nothing in most campaigns. It's not working as intended, hence why I didn't bother to mention it.



The solution would be to remove the tedium of food acquisition but also make it something the player has to consider. The current system just doesn't work.

 

[dannazgu]

I made a suggestion about this issue. Check it out. It may not be exactly what you want though:

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/supply-line-simulation-re-post.428655/#post-9506051

Yes, indeed you made and I really liked your post..I regret making this one now, you even got the attention of the devs. Congratulations

 

[dannazgu]

I think you overestimate what "supply line" was to a pre modern army and how important it was. If you imagine wagons with food moving from depots in a homeland along the roads to the field kitchens somewhere in the enemy territory, then you are deeply mistaken.

You need to realize two things:

1. In pre modern times, you could move cargo in bulk at long distances only on ships. Animal drawn cart is not an option because animals need to eat, and they will eat all the food they carry long before they reach destination.

2. Food spoils very quickly without preservation and in pre modern times, methods of preservation were very limited.

Therefore pre modern armies lived off the land almost from the moment they crossed border to the enemy territory. Exception were cases when armies could be supplied from ships.

This is why Crusaders could reach Jerusalem, why Vikings could raid Paris, why Hannibal could invade Italy across Alps, why Henry V could start his French campaign in Harfleur, march almost all the way to St. Quentin, defeat French army at Agincount and end in Calais. If they would have been subjects to anything close to what you suggest as "supply lines", non of that would be possible.

This game in the ancient ages and early middle ages, so I keep my comment. Besides the post of @RoboSenshi, makes a value much bigger than mine and explain what i thought in much more careful way.

 

[hruza]

This game in the ancient ages and early middle ages, so I keep my comment. Besides the post of @RoboSenshi, makes a value much bigger than mine and explain what i thought in much more careful way.

The battles and campaigns I have mentioned happened during ancient and middle ages. So I keep my comment. Besides I am also pretty sure that neither during one or the other they had trucks with refrigeration.

The AI is bugged, it straight up doesn't bother to stockpile food and will starve down to nothing in most campaigns. It's not working as intended, hence why I didn't bother to mention it.

The solution would be to remove the tedium of food acquisition but also make it something the player has to consider. The current system just doesn't work.

Then the solution is obvious. There is no need to remove or change anything: Fix the current system first. Then let's see how it actually works.