A Mod for the Mongol's (aka Khergit's) ?

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I've looked all over and i can't seem to find any mod that enhances or brings to life the Mongol empire, (aka "Khergit"s).  Is there any?  Preferably in a historical context?

I think the 1237AD mod does to some extent, but i'm afraid to use any mod where I might have to alter my Virtual Memory settings because i'm running a 32 bit OS, and I don't want to deal with CTD's.  So is there any other mod?  Or am i just going to have to be satisfied with the Khergit pseudo representation in native?

 
Wrong forum, dude. Unfortunately I haven't seen one either, maybe you could make it yourself if you tried :wink:
 
Dalkar 说:
Wrong forum, dude.

Well, i thought about making this post in the  Caravanserai  section, but all the threads there look like individual mod release threads, and not discussion threads. I didn't want to clutter it up with my inane questioning.


maybe you could make it yourself if you tried :wink:

Oh no..... I spent 4 years modding another game to be the game i wanted, and in the end, i couldn't stand looking at it, as it was just work to me.  Totally ruined the game for myself. I try playing, and all i see is things wrong, or objects and attributes, with all sense of immersion completely gone.  I'd much rather D/L, install, and post my undying gratitude to the modder responsible  :lol:
 
Semper_Ducimus 说:
I've looked all over and i can't seem to find any mod that enhances or brings to life the Mongol empire, (aka "Khergit"s).  Is there any?  Preferably in a historical context?

I think the 1237AD mod does to some extent, but i'm afraid to use any mod where I might have to alter my Virtual Memory settings because i'm running a 32 bit OS, and I don't want to deal with CTD's.  So is there any other mod?  Or am i just going to have to be satisfied with the Khergit pseudo representation in native?
There was a mod called Rise Of Khergits,one of the first I played and it's great but it's for 1.011,don't know for warband!
 
Here's the mod suggestion thread, my friend:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,10276.3855.html
I'm not pedantic or anything, it's just that your idea might do unnoticed by modders :razz:
 
Dalkar 说:
Here's the mod suggestion thread, my friend:
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,10276.3855.html
I'm not pedantic or anything, it's just that your idea might do unnoticed by modders :razz:

DOH!  :shock:
/facepalm
 
Well, my mod features a re-do of all factions, maybe you'll like the Khergits in that one.
I mixed it up a bit on purpose, and got rid of the lancer class, made all their troops mounted archers except a single infantry class, good for castle defense and foot archery. Their horse archers are beastly when in a good level of training.
 
Seriously, the time period is nearly perfect with this game.

Mongol invasion of Europe:
Part 1 -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiLTX_2-560
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY0eczetUTQ
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De1tkCGVqbQ
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qww8mh6UXDw


I'm kinda surprised nobody's done a concerted effort to properly render this faction in warband.
They pretty much kicked everyone's buttocks. What's not to love about them?  :razz:
 
The Mongols were pretty amazing, but unfortunately there are several reasons why they can't really be depicted accurately in a game.
A) AI is usually too stupid to use the complex and intricate maneuvers the Mongols used.
B) Every Mongol man was trained in horse archery from the time they could walk, making individual men too strong for a balanced (fun) game.
C) From the formation of the Mongol nation, by Ghengis Khan, to his death, no tumen (unit of 10,000 men, commanded by a "Noyan") was outright defeated on the field, showing that, as a group Mongol's were too strong for a balanced game.
D) Even seemingly overwhelming odds never stopped the Mongols.


WARNING: WALL OF TEXT INCOMING
Perhaps the most notable example is the Battle of Badger's Mouth.
The majority of the Jin army (400,000 to 500,000 men out of 900,000) had spent an entire winter preparing a narrow pass (less than a mile wide at the bottleneck) though a mountain range, specifically to stop Ghengis' armies from advancing further in Jin territory. The Jin deemed the mountains too high to climb, and focused all of their men on the bottleneck, which was fortified with large wall (similar in dimensions to the Great Wall of China), and two fortresses built into the cliffs which made up the walls of the valley, one on either side. Both fortresses were all but unreachable from the valley floor, and were armed with catapults and other large weapons.

Badger's Pass was chosen by the Jin, as its narrow and cramped nature would hinder the Mongols (as two of their primary advantages were speed and maneuverability), and it was the only way past the mountain range that would not take months for the Mongols to reach. The Mongols only had around 60,000 men.

Before the battle had begun Ghengis ordered one tumen, out of his six, to climb over the mountain ranges, so they could attack the enemy from the rear, they had to leave their horses were left behind as it would be near impossible to move them over the mountain range in time, the tumen further split up, as one myangat (1,000 men) stayed behind and managed to capture one of the two fortresses, by climbing down the cliff side (as they were now above the fortresses).
The rest of the tumen then proceeded back down the mountain range, now on the opposite side to the rest of Ghengis' army.

When the battle begun the main Mongol army (around 50,000 men, or 5 tumens, at this point) drove captured Jin men in front of their army, using them as an effective shield against the Jins' crossbows (which were far inferior, in range, power, accuracy and speed, to the Mongol composite bows (which incidentally are also far superior to British longbows, in every aspect mentioned above.))

The myangat that had captured one of the fortresses turned the siege weapons of that fortress on the other one, disabling it.
The rest of the mountain-crossing tumen appeared behind the main force of the Jin, and were quickly met by the Jin cavalry force (estimates say between 20 and 40 thousand). The Mongols (at this point still on foot) routed the Jin cavalry, killing approximately 2/3 of them, before the cavalry even reached the Mongol lines.
It is a testimony to the skill of Mongol bowmen, that while they killed around 13-26 thousand horsemen, it is said that only a few thousand horses fell, and there was more than enough horses in fighting condition for the 9,000 Mongols to all mount and then proceed to wreak havoc on the rear of the Jin camp.
Meanwhile the vanguard of Ghengis' army, led by the man himself, charged through the open gates set into the wall. At some point before more than 5 Myangats had made it through, the gate was closed, cutting off this relatively tiny force, who were now surrounded by the remainder of the 4-5 hundred thousand strong Jin army, and had no way in which to retreat. Amazingly the main bulk of the Mongols managed to break the gate, made entirely of iron, down, and they rushed in to relieve the highly outnumbered vanguard.


At the end of the day almost all of the Jin soldiers were killed, their army shattered, and, amazingly, only around 5-10 thousand Mongols died, making it one of the most profound (and almost unbelievable) victories of Ghengis' army.

TL;DR:
Outnumbered almost 10:1, with their enemies having had months to pick and prepare the area the fight took place in, the Mongols one with a casualty rate of 1/12.


 
Damn Straight Felonious.

The Mongols were referred to as 'tartars' by The French King Louis of the time when they were invading Europe, because Tartarus is the Greek term for hell.

He was literally saying they came straight from hell. Frankly, no European power could have stopped them save for the ones who had favourable(humid) climates which would make the Mongol composite bow somewhat less than useful.

But, were it not for Ogedai Khan's death, they probably would have taken much of mainland Europe.
 
You could look at Rise of Khergits and the Mongol Mod Series for M&B 1.011. Neither have been ported to WB, though.
 
RalliX 说:
Damn Straight Felonious.

The Mongols were referred to as 'tartars' by The French King Louis of the time when they were invading Europe, because Tartarus is the Greek term for hell.

He was literally saying they came straight from hell. Frankly, no European power could have stopped them save for the ones who had favourable(humid) climates which would make the Mongol composite bow somewhat less than useful.

But, were it not for Ogedai Khan's death, they probably would have taken much of mainland Europe.
I would like to see where you got that quote about Louis, it seems stupid.

The name by which Mongols were known in most of Europe was tatars. that's simply the name of one of the tribes that were part of the Empire. perhaps the tumens that attacked Eastern Europe were comprised mostly of tatars. in any case, the French never really came into contact with the Mongols. What could a French moron possibly know about them?
 
[quote author=http://www.oocities.org/taylorsvilletartars/tartarinfo.html]In the 13th century, eastern Europe was invaded by an army of Mongolian barbarians, known as the Tartars. The Tartars name was derived from the Latin term for hell, Tartarus, due to the fact that they destroyed armies and burned towns that stood in their path. The Tartar armies were led by a grandson and great-grandson of Genghis Khan, whom had commanded Mongolian conquests of his own in eastern Asia.
The Tartar’s overwhelming victories caused some Europeans to suggest that the Mongols were not entirely human. In fact, there was nothing magical about them; the Mongols simply exercised discipline, efficiency and order, three qualities generally lacking in European armies of the period. The Tartars had annihilated every army of any significance between their homeland and France and were well on their way to conquering Europe when the great khan Ogadei, Genghis Khan’s son, died in Asia. In accordance to the law as laid down by Genghis Khan, the Mongols returned home to take part in the election of the new khan. The Tartars postponed their invasion of Europe for another time--a time that would never come. Terrible as the invasion was, it had ultimately been pointless--a Mongol conquest that was suddenly abandoned, leaving nothing but a wide swath of destruction and death as the Tartar legacy in eastern and central Europe.

...

King Louis IX of France was sent the message, "The Tartars have destroyed and taken the land of Henry Duke of Poland." King Louis, preparing to go to central Europe to fight the Mongols, told his mother, Queen Blanche, that either they would send the Tartars back to hell, or the Tartars would send them to Paradise. His statement was a play on the Latin term for hell, Tartarus, and helped fix the Mongols' nickname among the Europeans.[/quote]
 
WARNING: EVEN BIGGER WALL OF TEXT INCOMING

Just an interesting side note:
During Ghengis' rise to power, he viewed the Tartars (a great alliance of northern tribes) as a blood enemy, as his father Yesughei, who was the Khan of a relatively small tribe, (around 400-500 people, and only 200 warriors, the name of the tribe is widely known as "The Blue Wolves", although this is an anglicanisation) was killed by Tartars when Ghengis was in his teens. This in turn lead to him and his family being expelled from their tribe and left for dead in a desolate area, with absolutely nothing, no bows, no blades, and not even a single ger to shelter the eight of them.

Amazingly he forged together small groups of exiles (some of whom had never lived in a tribe) into his own, tiny tribe. They ventured north to "bleed the blood from the northern devils" (the Tartars). Through this action he became well known to Togral, the Khan of the Kerait tribe, and a former ally of his father. Togral was no warrior, but he applauded Temujin's effort and was persuaded to place men under Temujin's (Ghengis' birth name, he was still known by it at this time) command, in order to help him bleed the Tartars, who were an enemy of the Kerait.

Temujin's party of around 100-150 men managed to antagonize the Tartars into such a state that they marshaled a huge army, from all of their tribes, this army was around 1000-1200 strong, and even with the command of all of the Kerait's warriors Temujin still only had around 500-600 men (these odds may seem laughably easy compared to the battle of Badger's Mouth, but these were still the early days for Temujin, and he was fighting horse archers whose individual skills rivaled that of the men Temujin commanded.

In the weeks before the inevitable battle between the Tartars and the Kerait, as well as Temujin's young tribe, there was an unsuspected arrival.
The Blue Wolves, still lead by the same man who had left Temujin's family for dead (who Temujin and his family hated with a passion, funnily enough), arrived promising to aid Temujin and the Kerait for 1/3 of the loot, a proposed split between the three tribes, although the Wolves' 200 men only made up around 1/4 of the total Mongol force.

The battle plans were drawn up, they would rely upon the horns formation (which was the primary formation the Wolves and Temujin's raiding party used), where the two flanks would advance ahead of the body of the Mongol force and surround the Tartars. Temujin's tribe and the Kerait he had commanded in his northern raids took the left flank, and the Wolves took the right, with the majority of the Kerait making up the body of the Mongol army.

In the coming weeks Temujin fiercely drilled every Wolf and Kerait warrior in discipline and the tactics that would be used in the coming battle, this, combined with the fact that Temujin had commanded many Kerait warriors (who then viewed him as much more of a leader than the slothful Togral) and Temujin's birth right to lead the Wolves, instilled a deep sense of loyalty into the majority of the Mongols present.

The battle was a complete success, with the Mongols reportedly taking only a hundred or so casualties, but the real drama had yet to play out.
It is said that as the celebration of their victory rang on Temujin, although injured, challenged the leader of the Wolves to a duel to the death. If Temujin won, he would have command and complete loyalty of the Wolves, and if his father's usurper won, he would be rid of a troublesome loose end, and he would have Temujin's tribe's share of the loot.

Temujin won the duel, killing the usurper and  taking command of the Wolves. It is around this time that Temujin found out that the Tartars were not entirely to blame for his father's death. He discovered that the leader of the Olkhunut, who was Yesukhei's brother by marriage and Temujin's uncle; and a supposed ally of the Wolves, had betrayed his father, telling the Tartars of his whereabouts when he was travelling alone. The Tartars had a grudge against Yesughei, for he had killed the leader of a Tartar raiding party. As it happens the leader of the raiding party was the son of a great Tartar Khan, and the son was named Temujin, and it was after him that Yesughei named his own son.

Temujin travelled to the Olkhunut with a small party of companions, his brothers and two of his most trusted men, Arslan and his son Jelme, who had freed Temujin when he had once been captured by the Wolves.
Upon arriving he was granted a meeting with his uncle (the khan of the Olkhunut), although he and his companions were stripped of their weapons. Records show that Temujin killed his Uncle in vengeance within his own ger, in the heart of his Uncle's tribe, with hundreds of Olkhunut warriors outside, with a loose piece of his own scale armor (which he had adapted from Jin designs).

It's remarkable that Temujin survived this encounter, and it's unbelievable that he managed to claim the Olkhunut as his own (he was after all the nephew of their, now deceased, Khan). In the space of months Temujin had gone from the leader of a small raiding party, of no more than 30 men, to the leader of two tribes (which he amalgamated into one) and over 800 warriors.

When returned north to the Kerait tribes, Togral feared he had come to usurp him from command of the Kerait, and ordered three of his best men to kill Temujin in his sleep. Foolishly the man Togral selected to lead these would-be assassins had served directly under Temujin in their early raids. The man's loyalties laid with Temujin, and when he entered Temujin's ger that night he warned Temujin, and killed the other two men who had come to assassinate Temujin. Togral had fled by the next morning, and left the Kerait behind.

Naturally Temujin joined the Kerait with his own tribe, and this was the birth of the Mongol nation, and the birth of his title, Ghengis Khan.


 
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