A message to the devs

[froggyluv]

If attacking bad legacy code gives us a better game than im all for it. You got games like Arma 3 in which the literal AI development team have admitted they dont try and improve the AI pathfinding/CQB etc because the AI legacy code is so befuddling they're afraid of touching it. Essentially built on a faulty house of cards and with one wrong pull the whole game comes crashing down. Its why so many of us are waiting and hopeful for Arma 4 as they are finally doing a re-write from ground up (implied not promised)

 

[Heyyou]

Right, my point was that it looks a little silly to say that it is outrageous that they are rewriting code. You can't develop a game without rewriting code.

I also somewhat doubt that there is a whole lot, if any, legacy code in a game that isn't out of Early Access yet. They are probably changing their software architecture to make it easier for them to make further changes. Which is an unfortunate but relatively common thing to do when you are developing a new product, which I am sure you know if you have experience in software development. Good on them for actually doing it, instead of trying over and over to make do with a broken system.

The only time i have had to do major code refactoring on non-old(less than 4 years old) code was when we understood that we underestimated the needs for performance so i can't say that major code refactoring is a common thing.

 

[black_bulldog]

The only time i have had to do major code refactoring on non-old(less than 4 years old) code was when we understood that we underestimated the needs for performance so i can't say that major code refactoring is a common thing.

I know almost nothing about programming but it makes me wonder why on a game like this they needed to do it. But as @froggyluv said if it gets us a better game in the end I don't care about waiting now. I want to be playing this game years from now when full conversions are abound.

 

[AxiosXiphos]

I know almost nothing about programming but it makes me wonder why on a game like this they needed to do it. But as @froggyluv said if it gets us a better game in the end I don't care about waiting now. I want to be playing this game years from now when full conversions are abound.

From what I have heard the dev team has changed a couple of times - i mean in theory the game has been in some sort of production for 8 years. It's likely that the methods that the original developers used are now out-dated or at least not convenient for the team that are currently working on the game.

Refactoring can only be a good thing. Even if we see no improvements on our end (which tbf we should see a little - even if Callum doesn't feel safe sugesting it) It will make it cleaner & easier for the team to develop the game in the future. Overall it's a good sign - means TW are willing to go the long haul and they aren't going to drop it anytime soon (or ever).

Yeah it's annoying but.. thats software development.

 

[Heyyou]

I agree with doing code refactoring as in most cases it allows to make future changes much easier.

 

[Bannerdog]

How would you suggest they update the game without rewriting the code?

The context in which it was said is clear and if you are so being deliberately obtuse as to sugegst it's just a regular update then you are simply insulting your own intelligence.

 

[Bannerdog]

They tell you that you should expect to run into bugs and issues, and your conclusion is that the game is basically free from bugs. And you call that an intelligent debate. It's not.

PS
By the way, I'd say that 'obscure' is a strange choice to describe the bugs present in game. I don't know what they wanted to say with it exactly. There are several definitions for the word, none of them say that it's something minor or rare though.

I never said, or suggested, that the game was "free from bugs"; you are completely making that up. There is no wa you could read my posts, or the thread I linked, and come to that conclusion uless you were intending to misconstrue. You are lying, thus not worth entering into a debate with.

 

[Davic]

TW code refactor isn't the reason its taking weeks for a new patch, TW just decided they would work towards a big patch, as shown by earlier comments from devs that some features are ready, but they want to release it all in one big patch

Indeed - they have been building content for awhile for this big release. I'm not sure I agree with that method from a PR point of view; one or two changes/fixes a week I think would keep people happier. But we are where we are. I just hope it is a pleasing as they all keep suggesting

No, the code refactor is the reason the new patch has taken weeks. Multiple devs have said not to expect much more content/changes than previous patches. mexxico even said this today:

After last test 6 new bugs are founded and all fixed today. You will get patch next week 90% (probability was 50% yesterday). However as I said previously even 6-7 weeks past since last big patch and 80-90% of our energy spent on fixing bugs created due to refactor so please hold your expectations lower for new contents for only this patch.

Only MP seems like it will be getting a bigger update than usual, but considering MP has gotten very little since the start of EA that isn't necessarily saying much.

 

[Younes]

No, the code refactor is the reason the new patch has taken weeks. Multiple devs have said not to expect much more content/changes than previous patches. mexxico even said this today:



Only MP seems like it will be getting a bigger update than usual, but considering MP has gotten very little since the start of EA that isn't necessarily saying much.

No, you misunderstand what i am saying. They could have released features while working on the code refactor. Don't remember if it was on discord or forums but a dev stated that things like combat parameters were finished a long time ago but they are going to release the patch in a big bunch.

 

[Davic]

No, you misunderstand what i am saying. They could have released features while working on the code refactor. Don't remember if it was on discord or forums but a dev stated that things like combat parameters were finished a long time ago but they are going to release the patch in a big bunch.

When is the big patch coming then? The devs have all said it's not this patch.

 

[Younes]

When is the big patch coming then? The devs have all said it's not this patch.

it's in the next patch i just told you.. When i said big bunch i meant all the things they have been working on will be released next week as they have planned, but since its TW you never know.

 

[Davic]

it's in the next patch i just told you.. When i said big bunch i meant all the things they have been working on will be released next week as they have planned, but since its TW you never know.

But that contradicts what the devs and mexxico just told us. That they've been focused on bug-fixing and NOT to expect a big patch next week. It will have all the content they've gotten ready the past ~6 weeks but a big patch wasn't their intention, the code refactor just took a long time.

 

[Younes]

But that contradicts what the devs and mexxico just told us. That they've been focused on bug-fixing and NOT to expect a big patch next week. It will have all the content they've gotten ready the past ~6 weeks but a big patch wasn't their intention, the code refactor just took a long time.

Wait what did mexxico say, i don't know what he said

 

[Davic]

Wait what did mexxico say, i don't know what he said

It was in my first post:

"After last test 6 new bugs are founded and all fixed today. You will get patch next week 90% (probability was 50% yesterday). However as I said previously even 6-7 weeks past since last big patch and 80-90% of our energy spent on fixing bugs created due to refactor so please hold your expectations lower for new contents for only this patch."

 

[Younes]

It was in my first post:

"After last test 6 new bugs are founded and all fixed today. You will get patch next week 90% (probability was 50% yesterday). However as I said previously even 6-7 weeks past since last big patch and 80-90% of our energy spent on fixing bugs created due to refactor so please hold your expectations lower for new contents for only this patch."

Oh i didn't see that part my bad, i just replied as soon as i read ur first part and didn't look back. But yeah, i'm not saying the refactor didn't take a lot of energy and time. But some devs have hinted features to come the next patch. I wasn't aware that there were suddenly so much issues with the refactor until i read that quote.

It's weird they still working on so much bug fixing, i wonder how their development cycle goes for there to still be so much bugs

 

[babelfisch]

I never said, or suggested, that the game was "free from bugs"; you are completely making that up. There is no wa you could read my posts, or the thread I linked, and come to that conclusion uless you were intending to misconstrue. You are lying, thus not worth entering into a debate with.

Look up 'basically'. It means as much as mostly.

 

[Lord Badfox]

Ignoring the context, this is the exact kind of attitude we need more of in the world. It brightens my day to see both positivity and constructive self-reflection clash with empathy and the act of putting one’s self in the shoes of others. Op, for whatever it’s worth, you’ve radiated light - however small an amount - and I appreciate you for it. Don’t feel bad if in the depths of your own humanity you happen to get consumed by disappointments or anger: Happens to everyone, frequently. It’s only human. What matters is realizing it, admitting it and pushing away the noise in favor of discipline and colors.

I just wanted to stop in and say this because I feel like a lot of the nice things are all too often left unsaid when traversing the forums of the internet.

More often than not, you’ll be left unnoticed or even ridiculed for it. Let it not discourage you. Just consider which of the two states of mind left you happier and more content; be it whichever, stay true to that.

The world is dark, violent and indifferent. Let us not be so.

????

 

[SlyFox]

But that contradicts what the devs and mexxico just told us. That they've been focused on bug-fixing and NOT to expect a big patch next week. It will have all the content they've gotten ready the past ~6 weeks but a big patch wasn't their intention, the code refactor just took a long time.

Well, it probably won't be big big but this quote from Callum tells us it'll be at least more than just a refactor.

To give you some rough idea though without trying to ruin too much of the surprise, we have some updates coming to multiplayer that I am personally very excited about and that I feel will be a great boost to the clan scene.

Over in SP, we have some nice UX and UI improvements that should really improve the flow of the gameplay. There's also changes to the character development system, some new perks, new quests, as well as, tons of other changes, updates and performance improvements.

The more time they spend to bug fix the refactor, the more time they have to implement other things alongside it.

 

[ZydrateTheSmoothCriminal]

The more time they spend to bug fix the refactor, the more time they have to implement other things alongside it.

Why does this sentence make me feel stupid

 

[musashii89]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and support. We know the game still has quite a way to go yet and we will continue to keep our heads down and work on it until it meets all of our expectations. And don't worry about it, we know that it can be frustrating at times waiting for new patches or info to come out and we know that people get angry sometimes simply because they want to jump in and play the game but can't. We try not to take any of it to heart and instead accept it as the valid criticism that it is.

We know that the slowdown with patches as of late is one of the main causes for concern right now and is frustrating for everyone involved (including our team: we have been working on all sorts of things that we want to share with you all!) but we have found some critical bugs that need addressing first and we really don't want to push out a patch that we know to be broken just to appease people in the immediate short term.



It would be easier for you to just add it to your forum signature you know.

But just to be clear, we aren't in the business of stealing money. If you buy it and it doesn't work or you don't like it, and you are still eligible for a refund, please go ahead and do that. However, we would ask that you keep an eye on development throughout early access and jump back in and give it another try at a later date if you think the game is up to par then.

So can we get an ETA on a development timeline of any sort or is the studio developing this game as ad hoc as it appears? Currently this game requires a gamble or an act of faith and your fan base wouldnt be so aggravated if you communicated more with us some kind of plan. Otherwise it is apparent to all but your most zealous fans that its not so much 'when' this game becomes playable but 'if'.