A Matériel World

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First, let me declare that I have not studied the eras about which I am talking, so anything I say is more about generalities than specifics, which may very well be wrong.

[quote author=www.m-w.com]equipment, apparatus, and supplies used by an organization or institution[/quote]
[quote author=en.wikipedia.org]Materiel (from the French "matériel" for equipment or hardware, related to the word material) is a term used in English to refer to the equipment and supplies in military and commercial supply chain management.[/quote]
[quote author=dictionary.com]Military. arms, ammunition, and equipment in general.[/quote]

What is materiel?  I see it as all the stuff, other than money, buildings, and naked human bodies, needed to run a war.

In modern Calradia, materiel constitutes only food.  In the actual system being modeled - 1200s-era Europe - materiel was much, much more.  Let me attempt a sort of example list:

Raw Materials

Fuels
Coal
Charcoal
Wood
Grass/Brush (on the steppes)

Building Materials
Stone
Wood
Clay

Food
Grains
Salt
Spices
(etc)

Clothing and Armor
Wool
Leather
Furs
Iron
Wood
Dye
Flax, etc
Copper, Zinc, Tin, etc. mainly for ornamentation and corrosion-resistance, I suppose
Oil

Weapons
Iron
Lead
Wood
Gut
Leather
Oil

Ammunition
Iron
Lead
Feathers
Wood

Transportation
Horses
Mules
Oxen
Wood (wagons, rafts, etc)


Intermediate Materials
This layer of abstraction is not really strictly necessary, but can simplify things - in this case, manufactured metal goods would use steel instead of iron AND coal/charcoal, for example.

Steel (coal/charcoal and iron)
Linen (flax or wool or whatever)
Cement (stone and coal/charcoal)
Bricks (clay and fuel)


Manufactured Goods

These could be simple abstracted as:
Light Armor (leather, cloth, and padding)
Heavy Armor (iron, oil, cloth, and padding)
Shafted Weapons (wood and iron)
Solid Weapons (iron and leather)
Bows (wood, gut)
Crossbows (wood, iron, oil)
Arrows (iron, wood, and feathers)
Bolts (iron, lead)



I find the economic metagame of wars utterly fascinating.  And yet, games almost never make much of an attempt to model it.  In Dune II, there was 'spice'...  in Europa Universalis, 'money'...  in Civilization-type games, 'labor'.  Imperialism makes an attempt, but does not really get it.  Master of Magic reduced the cost of archers if you had a sawmill, which required a forest, and so forth... but that's not really it.  Kohan gave upkeep costs in terms of iron for swordsmen, mana for mages, wood for archers, and was interesting...  but not quite there.

What I want is a system like Mount and Blade, where there is real supply-and-demand, prosperity, and a global economy driven by trade via actual caravans.  I love it!  But right now it just does not do much.

If all these 'materiel' resources were integrated into the game, such that:
Intercepting a caravan laden with iron actually prevented the Swadians from producing heavy cavalry...
Intercepting a caravan laden with food prevented a castle from resupplying...
Being near a forest with a logging camp made archers/spearmen/wooden buildings cheaper and more available...
Razing a village increased the demand for stone and wood, without with it simply could not rebuild...
Walls, barracks, mills, jails, smithies, and other improvements could be built only with the requisite materials...
Weapon and armor stores were needed to be able to upgrade troops (abstracted such that perhaps a Swadian Knight needs 20 units of heavy armor, 4 units of shafted weapons and 6 units of solid weapons, while a Rhodok Spearman needs 2 units of light armor and 2 units of shafted weapons, for example)...
Ammo stores are needed to refill projectiles between battles...
Capturing and holding mines or villages that supply key resources is vital...
Villages and towns had real population, that could only grow with excess food, fuel, and building materials...

Gosh.  That would honestly be my dream game.  Right now, when Vaegirs and Swadians are at war, yet Vaegir caravans happily (try to) transport Iron into Praven and Swadian caravans try to transport Grain to Curaw...  I gnash my teeth.
 
Vilhjalmr 说:
Bad news: These (very good ideas) will probably not be implemented into M&B before the release. They just don't fit in with the overall agenda.

Good news: This is all highly moddable, and if you don't do it yourself, I'm sure other people will implement this stuff.

If I ever get around to learning how to mod M&B, I'd attempt it.  I've never used Python before, though, and the data files are really REALLY hard to read.  Hmmm...
 
Saber Cherry 说:
I find the economic metagame of wars utterly fascinating.  And yet, games almost never make much of an attempt to model it.  In Dune II, there was 'spice'...  in Europa Universalis, 'money'...  in Civilization-type games, 'labor'.  Imperialism makes an attempt, but does not really get it.  Master of Magic reduced the cost of archers if you had a sawmill, which required a forest, and so forth... but that's not really it.  Kohan gave upkeep costs in terms of iron for swordsmen, mana for mages, wood for archers, and was interesting...  but not quite there.

You may want to look into the Settlers series. Personally I consider Settlers 2 to be the pinnacle, but that's ancient history. They made a remake, I think. No idea how it turned out, though.

As for the actual suggestion, I'm torn between hell yes and **** no. It would certainly open up interesting possibilities, but I can easily see it degenerating into a boring micro-management strategy game slash caravan babysitting simulation. I think there are far more pressing issues that need to be addressed by the devs than modelling the war economy in infinitesimal detail, honestly.
 
Go Saber Cherry! Learn to mod! Do it for all of us!

I gather from many of your posts on these forums that I like the way you think and if you started making mods for M&B it would add so much to this great game.. If you need help with graphics for your mods I will always be happy to help out.. 2D, 3D, animation.. I have years of experience as a professional graphic artist.

I think your ideas in this thread are great and I would love to see them implemented in native.. The only thing I would add is that this would all need a slightly more persistent world model. For instance bandits would need to be produced by bandit camps that randomly cropped up now and then, so if you raised their camp and then wiped out all the bandit parties in an area it would take some time before a new bandit camp cropped up. That way it would be possible to buy the trade caravans a bit of a respite from bandit attacks for a while.

That is just one example of the sort of persistence I am talking about.. Currently M&B just feels a little too random in the way the world works.
 
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