"A History of Calradia" discussion thread

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Depending on the level of interest, this - http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,63320.0.html - might grow into something substantial, so as off-topic chat is verboten over there, this is the place to discuss any ideas raised in the other thread. Also, stuff like what you think should be added next, whether someone's interpretation offends you , etc.

So, I have 3 points to start off:
1. Sharpen your quills and please add bits and pieces to the thread proper; my personal view is that anything goes, though you should probably refrain from introducing dragons and stuff or DZ will have an aneurism. (It's probably another topic for discussion, but I'd imagine that the preference would be to exclude fantasy-type stuff here). A Native Expansion slant would be good though.
2. Again, your stuff doesn't necessarily have to segue with what's already written - for example Pellagus ruling most of Calradia doesn't mean there's no space for your warlord. Also for example, the Rhodok smallholder guy mentions god a lot (probably too much). That doesn't mean, if you want to add a bit on Religion, that you have to go with one god....it just means that particular guy worships one god. Everybody else can worship 25.
3. I know nothing about medieval life, politics, army stuff or anything like that, so personally I've concentrated on just providing a bit of 'colour' so far. Is that acceptable, or would people prefer to have the cold hard facts and no 'storytelling'? Again, my view is that I'm just gonna add stuff and if it doesn't fit, it can be discarded by the editor.

Oh, and 4....obviously writing actual material isn't for everyone; it's time consuming and pretty much a pain in the hoop; so if you don't feel like writing, engage in this thread and pass on your 2 cents anyway.

So....discuss?

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

I seem to be a bit obsessed with the Rhodoks these days, and was wondering about their political system. Would a 'republic' have worked in 1200? Were such ideas circulating, or were they only conceived 500 years later?

Other threads liken the Rhodoks to the Italians. Dunno what that's all about; to me they seem more like the US round about the time they declared independence. [rubs hands; that should get 'em going].

 

[Wellenbrecher]

1. Sharpen your quills and please add bits and pieces to the thread proper; my personal view is that anything goes, though you should probably refrain from introducing dragons and stuff or DZ will have an aneurism. (It's probably another topic for discussion, but I'd imagine that the preference would be to exclude fantasy-type stuff here). A Native Expansion slant would be good though.

You could do so by writing about the common man's believes about ancient times. Like 'serious' scientists write about the dragons and other supernatural stuff in medieval literature (e.g. the Nibelungenlied, Thidreksaga, Parzival and all the other stuff I love so much  ).
You can be seriously creative about this as you make up a whole continent's 'kollektives Sagengedächtnis' (translation anyone?).
[hat jemand eine brauchbare Übersetzung?  etwas in die Richtung 'universal/collective legend/saga memory']

 

[Lord Samuel]

I seem to be a bit obsessed with the Rhodoks these days, and was wondering about their political system. Would a 'republic' have worked in 1200? Were such ideas circulating, or were they only conceived 500 years later?

Other threads liken the Rhodoks to the Italians. Dunno what that's all about; to me they seem more like the US round about the time they declared independence. [rubs hands; that should get 'em going].

You are looking for this: Medieval Commune http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_commune

See also:
The Old Swiss Confedereracy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Swiss_Confederacy
The Italian Maritime Republics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repubbliche_Marinare


I've always thought of the Rhodokius as an 'Alpine' or 'Cisalpine' people (Savoy, Switzerland, North Italy).
Famous for their good wine and mountain honey, and maybe strong cheese.

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Wellenbrecher: Good point. Maybe Folk Memory is the correct translation? The Germans get all the best words. Schadenfreude, anyone?

Lord Samuel: Thanks for that, I had no idea.

 

[Charlie Brooker]

I thought Rhodoks were Swadian serfs? :s

 

[Lord Samuel]

I tought the Vaegirs were Serfs...

 

[The Mercenary]

Rhodoks were serfs that rebelled, Vaegirs were a nomadic people wandering the icy wastes of the east, Swadians were nobles who are the remnants of the Calradian Empire.

 

[Kaibur]

In the vanilla, Grunwalder taught a bunch of Swadian serfs in the southwest of Calradia (now Rhodok territory) how to form a spearwall (or shieldwall, correct me.) So they rebelled using that knowledge against the Swadians, and formed their own nation. Grunwalder fell, and at his place of death, Grunwalder castle was built.
I personally saw the Khergits as more nomadic than the Vaegirs; a khan-led widely knit society based on a simple principality and then formed into a rough Khannate. Vaegirs in this case seem to be a more advanced Principality, with a more modelled and sophisticated military and a closer-bound nation than the Khergits.
Swadians are pretty much old Calradian Empire remnants. I can't really say anything else about them
No, this was not meant to be in the main thread; I was just elaborating on what Merc said (at least from my view. I probably missed something or got it disastrously wrong )

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Jeez..all that stuff that was done by the Duskryns "in the name of Jarl Pellagus" - they were quite the crew. You wouldn't want to meet the three of them in a dark alley 

And as for the mysterious Count Arowynd, he has a fanatic's gleam in his eye. He could prove a useful ally...

 

[The Mercenary]

Hey, whatever pays. That's the outlook I follow in games and in life.

 

[Kaibur]

I'm considering whether or not to put something on Kaibur in there, but he's more for my own interpretation (heir of a lost kingdom which is the nemesis of the Black Knights.) So he probably wouldn't fit into the official history...ah well, can't have everything.

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Well, is there such a thing as a definitive history? Official histories can be suspect and competing points of view are valid. We might need to be a little bit inventive to fit our stories in; I got a great laugh out of seeing how Pellagus and Count Arowynd were introduced.

I know what you mean though. I would be hesitant to write anything about or by the Dark Knights, cos they're kinda Merc's property. But I would say to submit the individual stories regardless; if they need to be edited into a coherent whole later, so be it. You could do that simply by saying it's an excerpt from "An Alternative History of Calradia" or whatever.

 

[The Mercenary]

Anything concerning the Dark Knights will be edited to fit. The storyline will remain the same with necessary detail changes made.

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Lord Samuel:That is very nicely done! The Rhodoks are undergoing something of a Renaissance on this board, from being the troops nobody wanted to becoming the heroes of the common man! I'll never fight for the Swadians again, the arrogant pigs.. 

Bunduqdari: tres cool, I was hoping someone would start a ballads section!

 

[Lord Samuel]

Thank you, Josef!

By the way, the Three Tombs of Jamiche can be seen in the latest version of the Siege & Scene Add-on...  as well as the old ruins
I'll post some pics.


Edit: the Pics.

The Tombs at night

Spoiler

The Memorial (at dusk)

Spoiler

BTW, If someone needs a scene to fit into his story, I'd be pleased to edit some scenes on request, and/or to include them in the Add-on...

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

They are very cool. I haven't installed your Add-on yet as I had some vague intention to finish eliminating the DKs and didn't want to break the save, but since I lost 700 troops in one battle I am now a broken man and have lost impetus, so I must install this.

BTW, If someone needs a scene to fit into his story, I'd be pleased to edit some scenes on request, and/or to include them in the Add-on...

Can you do severed heads mounted on walls?    Joking...I have to revise my character in the light of Mercenary's most recent addition anyway.

 

[Wellenbrecher]

They are very cool. I haven't installed your Add-on yet as I had some vague intention to finish eliminating the DKs and didn't want to break the save, but since I lost 700 troops in one battle I am now a broken man and have lost impetus, so I must install this.

It won't break saves.

I'd like congratulate everyone who's contributing to this awesome thread. The excerpts are a worthwhile read.

 

[Lord Samuel]

I noticed that Merc has censored a part of 'The Jamiche Massacre'. Not that I mind so much, but...
('Censored' parts are in spoilers)

In rage, the Captain cut his eyes and his throat, and his tongue.

Spoiler

Then the Swadians took the maiden and the women and they raped them. They took the little boys and they cut their ears and their noses.

They killed the cows, the pigs, and the dogs, and every living soul they could find in the village.
After that, their Imperial uniforms now covered in blood, they pillaged the houses and they set fire to them.

Spoiler

they locked the people into the houses and they set fire to them.

On the other hand, Merc decided to keep this following part, although quite brutal, too:

Spoiler

Upon arriving at the village, Micheal the Young, son of Micheal, saw the head of his father, planted on a pike, his tongue and eyes cut.
Later, near the stables, he found the pale body of his little child, dead, hidden behind a dead ox.
Alaien Fredbrott, son of Petraeus, found the mutilated and burnt corpses of his mother, brother and two sisters in the family house.
Jaen Retturhus, son of Eadmun the Mason, searched the whole village for his wife Amilia. He searched every place in anguish, every [calcinated] ruin, and the surroundings, during two days and two nights, too, but he never found the body of his young wife.

There were more than fifty dead bodies in the village. Three girls had fallen into madness, and Freda the blonde was mute. A dozen young children were found half-dead. Six of them died in the following night.

So I guess it's not the violence in itself that put out Merc, but maybe the 'rape' thing?
I do not want to start yet another 'rape' thread, but the original text depicted rape and child violence as warcrimes committed by a gang of rogue soldiers. It is clearly not an apology of such acts...

I know that the original text was a bit... violent, and one-sided. But, hey, it's the Dark Ages!


All I wanted was to detail the cruelty of the Swadians patrolmen over the Rhodoks.

What do you think? Should I have employed the verb 'molest' instead of 'rape', or was it too violent indeed?

 

[Josef_the_Pretender]

Hmmm, interesting!

I do not want to start yet another 'rape' thread

There have been 'rape' threads? I don't even want to know what that's about!

It looks to me that the two phrases that were cut are characterised by their cruelty. There's lots of violence, but those two phrases show an additional cruelty or vindictiveness on the part of the Swadians....which fits in with the story in my opinion, nothing like getting the old blood boiling 

So maybe Merc loves the Swadians so much she can't bear this bad press  , or maybe moderators have to keep the forums child-friendly (EDIT: probably this is the stupidest sentence on this forum). Personally, I would have left it as it was. I really liked the phrase 'calcinated ruin' too, just thought I'd say, and that works even better if you know they've all been locked in the burning huts.