A couple of questions about my "army"?

[stormcricket]

Hello all,
Love the game and get in trouble for playing it when I should be sleeping.

I have only been playing for a couple of weeks and started a number of characters.
The latest one is a combat build, I think, and has been going for about 40 days game time.
I am level 8, have a party of 36, have not lost a battle but I am more and more becoming the General behind the lines.
I have what I consider a balanced force, about 4 Knight wannabes, 4 khergit Horse Archers, 10 archer/crossbowmen and the rest infantry (2 Huscarls so far, but plenty more nearly there)
I also have 8 companions but will probably make some personnel changes there to get rid of the whiners.
I am using a Sword of War, a Jousting Lance and have a light crossbow with steel bolts (but dont shoot much)
My armour is Lamellar (?) with good boots and helmet and I am riding a courser.
I have been lucky on the trading side and made lots of money so my companions and I are as well equipped as I can afford and loot.
I havent joined a faction as I am enjoying trading and fighting bandits and raiders.
The few quests I have done have been for villages.

A couple of questions
At what weapon skill level(s) can I expect to be more effective in combat?
I havent topped 100 in any of my weapon skills yet and dont hit very often with my lance
I understand combat and the weapons I am using are slow but when I hit people stay down, which is a good thing. I have tried a couple of tournaments but get my butt handed to me. The arena fights go fine until I get 3 or more ganging up on me. Whereas in the big bad world my army is undefeated, mainly because I dont have to fight.

Am I progressing well?
I feel I am but I am curious to know how others have progressed. I wouldnt mind being further ahead character level wise but cant complain as I am still learning the game. I know this question is rather open ended but I am curious to hear how other noobs are going.

Thanks for any replies

 

[Shishou]

Welcome to the forums, stormcricket.

Overall progress: I think you're doing all right - there's nothing phenomenal about your report, but you do sound reasonably well equipped and having Huscarls in your force is definitely a good sign, as getting top-tier troops can be tricky early on with low Surgery and Trainer skills.  Your character's level is on the low side for day 40, but that seems to be a consequence of your avoiding personal combat.  A variety of troops is fine, as long as you can keep them at a reasonably high level of quality, though beware the headlong charge - especially with Khergits or other light to medium cavalry, they can quickly outpace your infantry and end up facing the entire enemy force without backup, and that gets ugly against enemy armies.  Also, once you start getting to the point where you're joining a faction and taking on enemy armies, you may find that a tougher horse and a shield may be useful if you're not playing with a damage reduction to yourself.

Your specific question regarding weapon skill: obviously, higher weapon skill will always give you some increased combat ability, but I've found that for one- and two-handed weapons, weapon speeds are pretty sluggish until 80 or so, passable around 100 and quite satisfactory over 140, assuming you're fighting from horseback and so rarely need to rain blows on a single target in quick succession.  I haven't noticed much of a benefit past 200 except when dismounted and hard-pressed in melee, such as staring down a high-level infantry unit in a siege.  Bows and crossbows I try desperately not to use unless I've leveled up past 100, because they're so inaccurate before that point that you're basically fishing for a lucky hit at any respectable range.  They get reasonably consistent around 150 or so, if I recall right, though you also have to deal with Power Draw (if using a bow) and Horse Archery (if mounted,) and it takes practice to get the hang of judging how to compensate for your movement, your target's movement, and distance.  Throwing weapons need as much skill as you can get, and are exclusively short-range weapons.  For polearms, or at least polearms used to couch from a horse, they're effective at any number - couching is almost entirely a player skill thing than a character skill thing.

And that brings me to your second question: I'm guessing that when you try to use your lance from horseback, you're either poking at the target and missing or you're running into them with your horse and not causing couched lance damage.  If the poking scenario sounds right, try this: do not attack (left-click) when you near your target.  Instead, get your mount's speed up and notice how your character lowers the lance from vertical into a horizontal hold, point forward.  Now, go and try to touch your target with that extended lance point without pressing the attack button.  If you do it right, you'll get a message along the lines of "Delivered couched lance damage!" in red text, along with a whole mess of damage and (probably) a kill message.  You can, of course, still poke at a target with your lance from horseback, but that's generally harder to aim and does far less damage.  If you know how to couch and you're having your horse run over your target most of the time, remember that your character holds the lance on the right, so you want your target to be a little to your right, not dead in front of you, and be ready to move laterally on short notice to adjust for the target's movement.  It's just a matter of practicing maneuvering with your mount.

The arena: success in the arena is based on (1) luck, luck and more luck, (2) your Athletics skill and (3) your ability to use a bow well (Archery proficiency and Power Draw.)  These are the case because the most reliable path to victory in the arena that I've found is to run and gun with a bow; nobody can take more than three arrows if you have good Power Draw and even if they have a shield, you can always pop them in the legs or wait until they start to swing and then nail them.  Winning in the arena without a bow requires excellent Agility and Athletics to prevent people from ganging up on you/shooting you down from range and an excellent sense of the parry-riposte tactic - your defenses must be near-perfect because even if you're a level 30 combat god, you have at most 80 or so hit points realistically and that translates into room for only one or two more mistakes than your average character.  From a progress standpoint, the arena is not worth it in Native because the rewards are so small, and a general will probably have a tough time winning until relatively high level, but it is a decent place to get used to the combat system and to practice self-defense archery and parrying in particular.

Tournaments: these have a wider variety than the arena (adds in horses and more weapons, as well as teams) but are locally somewhat predictable, as each town has a distinct set of gear that it likes to hand out to the participants, based on its native faction's fighting style.  For example, almost all of the Khergit tournaments will give you a horse in every round, while some Rhodok tournaments love the bloody crossbow and club combination that is possibly the worst thing you can get.  Therefore, there are a few tournaments that are quite doable even at low levels (Praven comes to mind, as everyone always gets a horse, a lance, a shield and a backup club, and the AI isn't so hot with the lance) while others require dedicated fighter characters.  If you can win a tournament and you bet on yourself, they're among the best sources of cash in the early game.

 

[Nebless]

Pretty much as the above covered.  While the skill points help, you need to remember they aren't the end all of combat. 

Things to help you hit and kill your targets:
- Putting skill points into the ability that increases melee damage.  If you float your cursor over the various names it's tell you what they do, (I'm at work and blanking on names).
- Pay attention to weapons reach.  A sword with a 50 for a reach will involve having to get alot closer to your target and probably won't be worth a darn from horseback.
- Weapons speed helps.
- If you hit a target from your moving horse, it'll increase the damage you do to the target so a right side haymaker with a long sword is going to do more damage as you ride by, than if you're sitting still.

Having said all that; I totally suck at mounted combat.  Can't hit the target to save my life.  What I can do is put my cav into a wedge formation, tell them to follow me and then lead them into and through the enemy lines - basically using the cav troop as my weapon.  If we get bogged down in the bad guys I can flail about me with my sword to stay alive long enough to push through and continue my line punching.  Or I'll just use a horse to get to the action, dismount and lay on with either a 2H great sword or 2H hammer/maul. 

All in all you're doing fine, just need to get out front more to up your level.  Keep it up and welcome.

 

[GJScarritt]

Having said all that; I totally suck at mounted combat.  Can't hit the target to save my life.  ...  If we get bogged down in the bad guys I can flail about me with my sword to stay alive long enough to push through and continue my line punching.

Thank you!  For the longest time I thought I was the only 'horrible mounted fighter' here.  I'm the exact same way when it comes to using a sword or bow on horseback (now using Couch damage, it's a different story).  On foot (especially at sieges) I'm good (unless THEY are the ones moving) when using a bow.  And even using a sword on foot, I tend to flail about.  Raising and using a High-Level army is my saving grace, so that too puts me in the 'Being the General' camp.  But even knowing how bad I am, I still enjoy this game (but you definitely WON'T be seeing me joining in multi-player when Warband comes out - lol).

 

[stormcricket]

Thanks for all the comments.

As far as the lance damage goes, yes I tend to run over guys with the horse. I have tried looking down the lance as I am charging to see if that helps but with the way battles go I am busy trying to see everything and cause couched damage on 1 hit in 10 ratio.
I did win a tournament last night, it was a jousting tournament amazingly enough. In the teams I would just wait for a group to be jammed against the wall and just charge in and try to hit something . Everyone was mounted with lance and shield, the hardest part was the one on one fights, it got to the point where we would just get stuck in a corner and try to take out the other horse and then just ride around the guy on foot with the occasional couched lance damage.

Also my 2 handed skill climbed over 100 and I guess that plus getting more familiar with mounted combat means I am hitting a lot more with my sword of war. Lots of 1 hit kills against sea raiders and mountain bandits.

In battle I usually have the cavalry follow me, we drift to the left side of the infantry line and slightly behind and as the enemy come in sight we move around my infantry and charge the flank, just as my infantry make contact, works a treat. I did fight some rodok spearmen deserters last night but I waited until my infantry had committed their spears before charging through and rolling them up for no casualties.
I have faced mountain bandits with some of them on horse but I havent been able to catch any steppe bandits or khergit deserters yet.

Thank you Shishou

Overall progress: I think you're doing all right - there's nothing phenomenal about your report, but you do sound reasonably well equipped and having Huscarls in your force is definitely a good sign, as getting top-tier troops can be tricky early on with low Surgery and Trainer skills.  Your character's level is on the low side for day 40, but that seems to be a consequence of your avoiding personal combat.  A variety of troops is fine, as long as you can keep them at a reasonably high level of quality, though beware the headlong charge - especially with Khergits or other light to medium cavalry, they can quickly outpace your infantry and end up facing the entire enemy force without backup, and that gets ugly against enemy armies.  Also, once you start getting to the point where you're joining a faction and taking on enemy armies, you may find that a tougher horse and a shield may be useful if you're not playing with a damage reduction to yourself.

ditto for me initially but I am getting better

Having said all that; I totally suck at mounted combat.  Can't hit the target to save my life.  ...  If we get bogged down in the bad guys I can flail about me with my sword to stay alive long enough to push through and continue my line punching.

Thank you!  For the longest time I thought I was the only 'horrible mounted fighter' here.  I'm the exact same way when it comes to using a sword or bow on horseback (now using Couch damage, it's a different story).  On foot (especially at sieges) I'm good (unless THEY are the ones moving) when using a bow.  And even using a sword on foot, I tend to flail about.  Raising and using a High-Level army is my saving grace, so that too puts me in the 'Being the General' camp.  But even knowing how bad I am, I still enjoy this game (but you definitely WON'T be seeing me joining in multi-player when Warband comes out - lol).

 

[Shishou]

Everyone was mounted with lance and shield, the hardest part was the one on one fights, it got to the point where we would just get stuck in a corner and try to take out the other horse and then just ride around the guy on foot with the occasional couched lance damage.

Unless I'm thinking of a mod, you should have a lance and a secondary weapon (a club).  Try switching weapons when the two of you are in a corner and if you pull out a club, beat the other guy silly while he tries to poke you with his insanely slow lance.

 

[stormcricket]

Unless I'm thinking of a mod, you should have a lance and a secondary weapon (a club).  Try switching weapons when the two of you are in a corner and if you pull out a club, beat the other guy silly while he tries to poke you with his insanely slow lance.

I didnt even think of looking for another weapon, we just started poking each other and our horses with the lance.

 

[AWdeV]

AFAIK, in native tournaments only crossbowmen get a secondary weapon. If you have a lance then you need to get yourself out of the thick fighting and then come storming back in with your lance pointed at them. A jousting lance really relies on speed bonus and on couching, so use those and try to avoid any bots who accidentally have their lance couched.

 

[Hammerhead]

.....and try to avoid any bots who accidentally have their lance couched.

Hahah! Yes, especially when you have just couched them and only managed to tear off their shield. A shieldless bot lancer is a deadly bot lancer.

A sort of trick to get your one handed numbers up quickly is to use a piercing weapon (a morning star is slow, but lethal). You'll be surprised how you can soon in no time manage to take down a rider and his horse in one passing blow. Swords seem to rely more on getting the length about right. Catch a guy at the max distance of your sword length and you can do some awesome damage.

Proficiency points of 150 is about sufficient, more are better ofcourse. I decided to stop powerstrike and draw at 5 each. Horse archery is at 4. While I'm no expert, I'll say that powerdraw is the most OP skill in game. It adds a lot of damage per level and I found that even with limited use (I'm a Nord chasing Khergits) I found that the added damage let my archery numbers catch up and soon surpass my one hander numbers.

 

[stormcricket]

Thanks for all the advice.
Probably should have mentioned this at the start but I am playing native.
I love this game , it is so addictive and yet there is no story, I get to write my own.

Entered another tournament in Wercheg and won it too.
The only weapon was a hatchet/tomahawk and we also had shields.
The teams had 1 or 2 horses, but they quickly got trapped and cut down.
In terms of tournaments, I think I entered them too early, now that I have a bit more experience with the game and higher weapon skills they arent so one sided anymore. I now dont fear facing sword sisters, hired blades and even my own companions

Rescued a peasant woman and a farmer and hired them, so hopefully I can nurse her through to a sword sister.
Its a real shame I cant select a regular trooper and raise them to a hero/companion, maybe the mod gods can work on that.

I am finding now that unless I am one of the first into combat I lose the chance to use my lance, it gets quite crowded around the enemy.
I am still not the most effective fighter in my warband but I dont care I am having too much fun.

 

[HugoC]

Rescued a peasant woman and a farmer and hired them, so hopefully I can nurse her through to a sword sister.

You might find that not quite so rewarding; Sword sisters are a bit bobbins compared to other high tier troops, and you'll find she's verrrrry slow to train, since she's the only representative of the troop type. Troops accumulate XP collectively as a "stack" and so smaller "stacks" advance more slowly.

 

[stormcricket]

You might find that not quite so rewarding; Sword sisters are a bit bobbins compared to other high tier troops, and you'll find she's verrrrry slow to train, since she's the only representative of the troop type. Troops accumulate XP collectively as a "stack" and so smaller "stacks" advance more slowly.

Thats good to know about the troop stacks and their XP.
I am not too fussed about the time it takes to train her, I figure I will be playing for a while and so far the camp huntress has taken out a couple of sea raiders and mountain bandits so I think she is carrying her weight.

Thanks for the advice