A comprehensive list of everything that is wrong with this mod & how to fix it

DrunkenSailor

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I didn't find a thread dedicated to bugreports and reviews, so I'll start a new one.

I'm an avid fan of the fantastic 1866 mod for the original M&B, and since the team behind it is not going to port it to warband, I thought this 1860 mod will be 1866's warband counterpart. While downloading, I expected an enhanced version of 1866 at best, a complete ripoff at worst. But what I got is, well, a strange thing that is not even a mod in it's proper sense.

Let's quickly outline the good things of this mod, since they are so few.

[*]Pros:
Soundtrack.
The choice and variety of tracks is great and really helps you to immerse yourself in the game. It could use a few more songs, but it is still good.
Town scenes.
These are also great. Towns, villages, forts, indian camps, all of them are stunning and authentic. Although there isn't a lot of scenes, and many locations share the same scenes, the low quantity is compensated by good quality.
Items (visual-wise)
Rifles and pistols are fairly detailed, there is a big variety of outfits for nearly every type of character, and most of them look decent. The gun selection is wide, almost all of the well-known gun of the period are included in the mod.

[*]Cons:
This is gonna be a long list
Items (gameplay-wise)
The gunplay in this mod is completely broken. First, many guns are completely obsolete since they are worse than the gun that you start with, and there is no reason to use them. Sure, you could arm lowly looters and rascals with those trash guns, but there is just too many of them. Some guns are completely outmatched by other guns of the same class, again making them obsolete. Why would you want to use a Hawken rifle if a Snider rifle has almost the same price but is much better in every single aspect? Also, the whole class of shotguns is broken and useless, they only shoot a single projectile but still have abysmal accuracy as if they were shooting buckshot.
Second, guns in this mod are pinpoint accurate (all rifles have accuracy 100, most pistols and revolvers are ~90), damage is also very high (~200 for muskets, ~100 for pistols). To compensate for that, the developer set extreme friction value for bullets (the bigger the value, the faster the projectile loses its speed). Because of this friction value, bullets in this mod behave like arrows - they are slow, lose their speed (and subsequently damage) very quickly, and damage dropoff over distance is insane. The aforementioned Hawken rifle does 255 damage pointblank, but falls to 90 in just ten meters. Seriously, bows from native have better range than firearms in this mod. So, every shot at close distance is a guaranteed one shot kill no matter what, every hit at long distance barely even scratches the enemy (that is, if you actually manage to hit something before your bullet falls down to the ground because of that extreme friction value).
Third, there are items like "2xRemington Six-shot revolvers" which are actually just one remington revolver with 12 shots. Why not make a pistol model for shieldarm so that the character actually wields two pistols? Or better yet, remove these weapons altogether, since akimbo shooting is a hollywood cliche and was never extensively used in real life.
Fourth, there are gunsmith traders in this mod that sell unique, high-end guns and equipment, like Henry repeater (which is OP by the way) and such. Not only those enhanced guns are extremely cheap and easily affordable, the trader also sells "GABRILDURO armored poncho (cheat)" and "Hand cannon (cheat)" items. Yes, they literally have (CHEAT) in their names, and indeed they are overpowered, the poncho has 999 armor rating and the rifle shoots exploding cannonballs. And they are cheaper than some of the normal guns and outfits. This is absolutely unacceptable, items like these should not exist, and even if they do, the player must never have access to them without cheatmenus, let alone buy them for a fistful of dollars from a merchant. There is also a joke weapon - a throwable powder keg twice the size of the character, it costs 300 dollars (you start with 350), it can be thrown further than bullets travel in this mod and it instakills anything in blast zone. Nuff said.
SOLUTION:
Remove cheat items. Reduce accuracy of all guns and friction value of all projectiles - guns should be slightly inaccurate but deadly, not the other way around. Increase prices of enhanced weapons, or make them harder to get (add quests for unique weapons, for example). Rewrite all stats completely so that every gun has its own use, not just 255 damage and 100 accuracy for everything. Some guns have blunt damage type, change them to piercing.

Economy
Economy is broken as well. Dollars are incredibly easy to make and maintain. After every battle you get huge loads of items which sell for a high price. Enterprises are useless because a single battle with a bunch of looters yields more money than the enterprise would make in a month. Items are very cheap, with the most expensive weapon pricing at 2000 dollars (2000 dollars is one battle with indian raiders). I doubt there is a gun or an outfit in this mod that costs more than 3000 dollars. Every town has exactly same items for sell. Whether its a CSA town, a Mexican town or an Indian camp, they all sell the same stuff. Trade is also nonexistent because of this, since all towns have the same shortages of commodities, every trading item has the same price everywhere, making trading routes pointless. Also, I don't know whether this is a bug or intended, but no town sells revolvers. The only way to get a revolver is to loot it in battle or start the game with it.
SOLUTION:
Increase prices. All prices. Adjust the assortment of towns, so that Indian towns sell Indian items, USA towns sell USA items etc. Buff the enterprises, also restrict them from Indian towns because I'm pretty sure indians didn't have dyeworks in their camps to make velvet from silk and dye.

Factions
First, there is no way to look at the troop trees without upgrading the troops. Second, all troops use the same equipment and weaponry (for example, the only difference between CSA Volunteer (bottom tier, recruited from villages) and CSA Best Shooter (the final upgrade) is their level). Proficiency also get better with upgraded troops, but since guns are pinpoint accurate, that isn't much of a deal. In addition, there are no anti-cavalry units (musketmen don't even have bayonets for some reason, they surely did IRL) and cavalry carbines are almost as powerful as infantry rifles, so there is no reason to use any unit that is not cavalry.
SOLUTION:
Add more variety in troop armaments, add a "View Troop trees" menu, nerf cavalry.

Self-insertion
A very rare and odd issue, I've never encountered it before. The problem is, the developer thinks that the player absolutely must know the author of this mod, so he put his name literally everywhere. There is a "by GABRILDURO" in launcher, "GABRILDURO" in loading screen, "GABRILDURO" in main menu, "GABRILDURO" in character creation, "GABRILDURO" in game, there is a "GABRILDURO" poncho (yes, the one with 999 armor) and GABRILDURO character, and all companions have no other line than "Hi I'm GABRILDURO's friend!". Yes GABRILDURO, yes, I got it already, yes, you made this mod, yes, no need to tell me that all the damn time. Also, remove lines like "Remember to rate this mod on moddb" on loading screens, they really break immersion.
SOLUTION:
It says "by GABRILDURO" in the launcher. That's enough.

SHOOTOUTS and SHOWDOWNS
Yes, like that, in all caps. These were probably the most advertised features of the mod, everywhere from moddb to TW forums the author bragged about new unique fascinating SHOOTOUTS and SHOWDOWNS! Well, okay, I found a town with a Showdown in progress and joined it. Since it was advertised so much, I expected something truly unique, something I've never seen before. Needless to say I was utterly disappointed. The "famous" SHOWDOWN is actually an exact copy of native tournament, but with revolvers instead of lances. No, its actually is even worse than native, because native had dedicated scenes for tournaments. Here, showdowns take place in the regular town scene, which doesn't fit this purpose at all. Fighters get stuck all the time, sometimes an enemy spawns right behind you and instakills you, and when there is one enemy left you can spend ages looking for him because he got stuck in some wall or building (remember that scenes are really big).
Shootouts (arena in native) are also bad and unfinished. A shootout takes place in a small building or on a ferry, the player spawns with a pistol and other fighters spawn with no weapons at all (bare fists). Shooting unarmed people is of course easy, but quickly gets boring. Occasionally, an NPC fighter spawns with a pistol, so that you could kill him and replenish ammo.

Map
Map is also very bad. It's just a big barren wasteland with towns and villages scattered around it. There are no forests, no custom objects, no bridges, no mountains, nothing. Not only it's aesthetically bad, it's also inaccurate. Many town's locations are wrong, there are towns that haven't yet existed in 1866, and rivers and mountains (the lack of them) are also wrong.

Misc
This mod doesn't have widely-used OSP mods like Diplomacy, Battle Continuation, Freelancer, PreBattle Orders and Deployment etc - all those little mods which are so widely used that they are expected to always be there. Seriously, when was the last time you've played a big total-conversion mod without at least Diplomacy incorporated in it? Enjoy losing an already won battle because some stray bullet hit you and the game autoresolved the battle in enemy's favor.
Player starts with a small arsenal of different weapons and multiple stacks of pretty expensive trade items (I got velvet, linen, tools and three stacks of silver). If you want the player to start off rich, why not directly increase the starting money instead?
Companions are OP, they start with very high skills and stats and are free. They are also named after the author's friends, thus breaking immersion.
Indian's red skin is actually a part of their armor. When you talk to an Indian companion, he takes off his helmet (his "head"), and appears as a red-skinned indian with a white european head.
Bullets have no effects when they hit the ground or walls or anything.
Pathfinding is broken, NPC's get stuck in walls and fences all the time.
Headshots are not lethal.
Seafaring skill is useless, although there is a possibility to buy a ship and set sail, there is no reason to do so.
Banners (flags) are broken.
Many words are written in ALL CAPS for no reason.
The merchant's starting quest (gather five men and rescue merchant's brother) is completely unchanged from native.
Characters such as town mayors and village elders are named after the author's forum friends nicknames, thus breaking immersion.
General Napoleon III exists in the game for some reason, you lose relations with him every week.
There are MP-only pseudofactions that do not exist anywhere on the map and get "eliminated" in the first week of the game yet still keep cluttering the factions tab. Why would someone import MP factions into SP to get rid of them a week later is beyond me.
The player character creation is unchanged from native. You can be born in an impoverished noble's family, spend your youth as a squire etc - all in 1860 year.


Overall, this mod is one big disappointment. Everything except the visual resources (scenes, models) is either broken, unfinished or simply bad. I expected a 1866 upgrade at best, or a simple remake at worst, but what I got is a mash-up of assets with barely any work in the actual gameplay department. I would give this 4/10 for visuals and music alone, but since the author didn't make those (took them from 1866 and various OSPs), I can't. My final score is 3/10.
 

John Xenir

Knight
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Mod is definitely improved from many years ago I played it.

I can go around most of con described here, I don't even perceive it 100% historically accurate, I don't mind, but all guns having 100 accuracy and damage reduced by distance I think it's not a correct approach. I wonder why the creator decided this way, it was some technical issues? Economy should be improved too, especially since guns are imbalanced (and they sorta were in RL at that time).
 

aBartender

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Long time lurker here.
EDIT: Pardon my poorly use of English.


As Gab once said:
PSbis: I WANT INDIAN, FRENCH and MEXICAN Fans of the Mod!
As Mexican, I must say I'm disappointed. Just like DrunkenSailor, I did too expect a playable Mod at least.

When I first downloaded 1860s, I was excited with the idea of roleplaying as a Mexican farmer fighting the French, defending his country. I thought the character creation options would help me build a background story for my character, and perhaps write an AAR or fan-fiction novel inspired by the Mod. When I found out said options were same as Native, I was disappointed and sad. Nonetheless, I let such thing go, thinking reasonably: perhaps the Mod was still in development, focusing in more important things - gameplay, mechanics, items, anything.

I kept playing, but everything went downhill from there.

My character, a bean-lover and taco-eater Mexican, started out with a Canadian(?) military uniform, when his background story had nothing to do with military at all. I said, "Well, whatever, I'll just go to the marketplace and switch it for a poncho. No big fuss".

Finally on the world map, I quickly took a look around. Zooming out first, I noticed the map was good - as closely resembling America as you could expect it to be recreating the Continent with the game engine. Zooming in, well, it was another story. A quick survey above México was just enough to notice some towns and cities were off, and that they were either too spread out in one area or tightly crammed in another. lso, I didn't realy like that for some strange reason many things were written ENTIRELY IN CAPS. I said to myself, "Well, alright. It doesn't look nice but I guess it'll do.".

I recruited some villagers and went off hunting French heads. When I found an enemy party (I can't recall if it was a French army, or a caravan. Maybe it was just bandits)and engaged in combat, I noticed most of my party had terrible or no weapons at all. I thought that upgrading my units would make them have better weapons, uniforms (armor) or something along those lines. There was some improvement, but, oh boy, was it a slight one. I thought, "This is surely biased, right? Right?".

I've always been a fan of history. I also like phantasy settings. And I'm aware that sometimes developers add two cents on their own vision of how such settings are, both historical and fictional. In other words, I know there's this thing called personal creativity and that they are completely entitled to add/remove/do/undo certain things at their hearts content - I am guilty too of such crime, doing it with my creations. But seeing Gab's name all over (ALL OVER) and meeting with village elders with some random forum names... it was game-breaking.

I could no longer bear with 1860s being so broken, that I just deleted the Mod. I was so sad - I had played other Gab's Mods (1776) before, and I thought 1860s was going to be just a little bit better. But it ended up being just as bad as the others. I even remember writing a review on 1776 with my old account, pointing out its flaws (Or was it here? Maybe it was deleted?).

This was years ago, mind you.

So, why would you care for a comment on an old version of 1860s? I'm outdated, right? I haven't tried the new features incorporated in the newest patches. I haven't payed the newest and better versions.
Well, I write to point out that most of the issues adressed above by DrunkenSailor are the same issues I experienced long ago. Using my logic, I would say the Mod has not improved over time as one would expect. That perhaps such issues have not been addressed at all? And it's such a shame if it is, because when I came back I saw a lot of new threads talking about incorporating new stuff into 1860s.

I never liked Gab's approach to work. Trying to do a lot of things at the same time, not completing one and moving onto another, doing sloppy work here and there. However, I love the time period, and a Mod focused on the Era was definately worth a try.
I'm not saying that I could do better, because I'm not nearly as skilled as he may be coding/editing/whatever-you-do. I'm saying that perhaps if he had paid attention to the critics and reviews he'd gotten here and ModDB, and actually listened to people's thoughts instead of begging for good ratings and dismissing critical views, then we would have had a completely different 1860s. An enjoyable one, IMHO.

Now, seems that this particular Forum has seen no activity since November 2017, so I hardly believe there would be a reply from Gab (since he's stated he wanted to sit back and relax, enjoying his good reviews) and/or a patch that could adress the issues listed here.
Many a time have I ever wanted to go into modding, but the only thing I'm good at is alcohol and illustration - I don't ever consider myself a good writer. What good could I be to someone actually working on, say, an un-official patch for 1860s?

As last words, I direct such to newcommers to the Forums looking for a XIX Century Mod settled in the Wild West, ACW or whatever 1860s pretented to be: download Mount&Blade, and play 1866.
 

oorestis

Veteran
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+Drunken Sailor I think it's kinda late rating a mod out of ten as old as this.. However the time you spend in explaining and listing and suggesting is greatly appreciated. If you can you can try some of the other mods too and rate them as well just like you did with this one. Some of the things you said were "brutally" honest and a 3 out of ten was a harsh way of concluding this review.
But I would very much like you to give that same level of judgment and attention on some other, more recent mods were authors are sure to read them, and deserve a bit of critisism more than Gab right now..
 

PPQ_Purple

Knight
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Whilst I understand your desire to criticize, this mod is very special in the way it exists and honestly I think it it requires a preface. It's not your average gameplay mod. And people coming to it do need to realize this. Otherwise they might leave disappointed or worse yet avoid it. And that is unfair.

In this context this thread, such as it is still serves that purpose. What follows is my contribution to it with hopes that it will help people understand.


I would rank this mod a 0 and 10 out of 10, at once.

Confused? Well don't worry. It's very simple really. This mod is an unfinished semi playable mess. However at the same time this mod is an amazing incredible fantastic piece of work that brings a smile to my face just thinking about it. Clear yet?

No? Well basically if you are looking for a mod to play a proper campaign playhtrough than this mod is not for you. The map is broken, the factions are questionable, half the guns do indeed go obsolete before the game even starts and we lack Canada and that's just the big obvious problems that you notice in the first 15 minutes.

However, if you are capable of getting past that the mod offers fantastic gunplay, easily better than most actual shooter games, great music and an opportunity to just let loose and have fun. So its a fantastic game to play if you just want to spend several hours running around the map shooting at things.

So as a M&B warband campaign mod it's like a 1, but as a fun and incredibly enjoyable shooter game its a 20/10.

My advice playing it is to cheat your self into enough cash to buy an 1860 lever action, get a small party and start raiding villages in Mexico. Doing that has literally consumed tens of hours of my life and I have no regrets.

 

GABRILDURO

Grandmaster Knight
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I absolutely and fully agree with you.
Yours was the most accurate and heartfull quick review of my mod.
My intentions and goals were too high for my capabilities but I put my heart in 1860s (as well as in 1755, a little less in 1776)
My limited modding as far as one person Team, at the end, limited my final result but I am so happy that I could give fun to many players :wink:


PPQ_Purple said:
Whilst I understand your desire to criticize, this mod is very special in the way it exists and honestly I think it it requires a preface. It's not your average gameplay mod. And people coming to it do need to realize this. Otherwise they might leave disappointed or worse yet avoid it. And that is unfair.

In this context this thread, such as it is still serves that purpose. What follows is my contribution to it with hopes that it will help people understand.


I would rank this mod a 0 and 10 out of 10, at once.

Confused? Well don't worry. It's very simple really. This mod is an unfinished semi playable mess. However at the same time this mod is an amazing incredible fantastic piece of work that brings a smile to my face just thinking about it. Clear yet?

No? Well basically if you are looking for a mod to play a proper campaign playhtrough than this mod is not for you. The map is broken, the factions are questionable, half the guns do indeed go obsolete before the game even starts and we lack Canada and that's just the big obvious problems that you notice in the first 15 minutes.

However, if you are capable of getting past that the mod offers fantastic gunplay, easily better than most actual shooter games, great music and an opportunity to just let loose and have fun. So its a fantastic game to play if you just want to spend several hours running around the map shooting at things.

So as a M&B warband campaign mod it's like a 1, but as a fun and incredibly enjoyable shooter game its a 20/10.

My advice playing it is to cheat your self into enough cash to buy an 1860 lever action, get a small party and start raiding villages in Mexico. Doing that has literally consumed tens of hours of my life and I have no regrets.
 

aBartender

Recruit
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This mod is an unfinished semi playable mess.
The map is broken, the factions are questionable (...)

So as a M&B warband campaign mod it's like a 1
Yours was the most accurate and heartfull quick review of my mod.
Played again, and couldn't agree more. 0/10
 

gervaj79

Recruit
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Lmao you're probably one of those tryhards that must have everything go correctly. Must have your "immersion" and "realism", but what you forget is that video games are meant to be entertaining whether it's the gameplay, the story, the characters, corny lines, etc.