A big elephant (also, religion in the game)

[Mad Vader]

Greeting fellow peasants of Calradia!
Are you tired of plowing all day? I thought not.

What's really missing from Mount and Blade's portrayal of medieval reality?
What's the big ****ing elephant in the room?
RELIGION.

Apparently, it's too controversial and sensitive a subject. But who cares!
Like it or not, religion was essential in times when people thought the Earth was flat.
But more importantly for us, it was a cause of conflict and violent death!

The game should rightfully have a few different religions, with all the works:
- conflicts sparked by religious disputes 
- churches in towns, inhabited by religious, quest-giving NPCs 
- parties belonging to the religions' hierarchies traveling around the map for all kinds of reasons 
- religious orders with open membership (optional; militarized optional) 
- plenty of chances to be an uptight zealot or irreverent ******* in someone's face! 
- sadistic persecution of heretics and non-believers! 

Is it hard to make game religions look different from Christianity and Islam? Yes, says Taleworlds, so let's not go there.
But is it really? Just make a Norse pantheon and change the names, it works for other people.
That won't work except for the Nords from the Nord Invasion DLC. The trouble with the "Calradian" nations is that we know who they really are and what was their religion. So, they can't invent new religions because they didn't really invent the nations.
And this is because cut-and-pasted nations are easy to recognize and get into, but newly created nations with their lore are hard to learn and the lore might be crap anyway. Same with invented religions.

TL;DR. It's missing and they should it. As a DLC.

(Please don't tell me everything is explained in some blog. Again.)

 

[Seleucid]

I thought this was about elephants the feature that is needed in this game as much as the nord invasion DLC. They already told us about Humphrey the camel now we need to learn about Tuskrey the elephant.

 

[KucukEniste]

Like it or not, religion was essential in times when people thought the Earth was flat.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

If religion was to be put in the game I would have it so that only Sturgia, Vlandia and Empire believe in the same religion while other factions believe in their pagan religion.
Maybe Battania can be splitted between its orginal pagan religion and the religion S,V and E share.

 

[HUMMAN]

Yeah i would pay for a religion DLC.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

Slightly off topic but I think the reason religions are usually just clones in media is because there isn't a good "template" for what a religion even is. Christianity / Judaism / Islam are fairly similar, but things like Buddhism and Confucianism or even Hinduism are more like elaborate philosophies than what most euro-americans would call a "religion". Even ancient Paganism can't be easily categorised alongside Christianity, which is part of the reason why Catholicism could absorb so much paganism, because they don't really overlap all that much considering we call both "religions" as if they are analogous.

I would much rather they have something like different ideologies both between and within factions, like early medieval pacifism or mediterranean psuedo-secularism for example.

 

[NPC99]

Vlandia - gods of war, thunder and lightning. Vlandians believe they have a divine right to Calradia, making them hostile to unbelievers who are only accepted as thralls. Animal or prisoner sacrifices are required to appease the gods before battle. Failure to perform the rituals reduces troop morale. Three battle defeats in a row means the gods are displeased. The party leader must be tied to an anchor rock and thrown into a lake (60% chance of the player untying his knots before drowning). Resurfacing proves the leader has been cleansed and his luck changed.

Battania - tree spirits, druids, stone circles and human sacrifice. Druids met on the road may demand one of your prisoners for sacrifice in a stone circle or if you have none, one of your soldiers irrespective of your own race or religious beliefs. Fail to comply and their warband will attack you. Trespassing in sacred groves is sacrilege - transgressors will be hunted down. Trespass into a stone circle and the druids will try to sacrifice you and all your party. Converts must survive a potentially lethal concoction of drugs administered in a sacred grove to transport you to the hallucinogenic spirit world.

Aserai - god of divination, desert pilgrimages and ritual sacrifice. Troops lose morale if they travel more than two days march from a desert and gain morale on desert terrain. Important choices must be divined by throwing arrows at the god’s statue and seeing which way they point - option to substitute a divine but random choice for a rational one in matters of marriage, dead player’s successor, assignment of governors to fiefs etc.

Khuzait Khanate - sky god, shamanism, totems and ancestor worship. Other religions are tolerated but looked down on. No interest in converting unbelievers as religion must be inherited - only true steppe peoples have ancestors who worshiped the sky god. Every major victory allows a leader to add a totem to his banner, increasing troop morale and acquiring new volunteers from warrior societies dedicated to that totem. Every major defeat forces a leader to sacrifice one of the totems on his banner,    which restores troop morale but suffers desertions from warrior societies dedicated to that totem.

Sturgia - paganism, multiple deities and augurs. Different gods rule different spheres of existence. Blessings, curses and foretelling can be bought from each god’s augur. Curses must be broadcast publicly so other believers will shun the target to avoid bad karma (they only work because people are superstitious enough to believe them). Cursed Lords must pay higher prices, wages and suffer lower troop morale. Blessed Lords pay lower prices, wages and benefit from higher troop morale. Accordingly, Lords spend a large portion of their incomes having themselves and their clan members blessed and paying for curses directed at other clan members. A lords status is determined by weighing the blessings they’ve bought against the curses paid for by their enemies. Unsurprisingly, blessings and curses directed at unbelievers are a waste of money.

Empire - divine emperors, cults, games festivals and colosseums. Only the true emperor can wear purple. Calradia is divided into imperials and barbarians. Expensive and bloody games festivals must be funded and supplied with gladiators, lions and sacrificial prisoners. Each Lord attempts to convert as many of their own troops to their warrior cult as possible as they seek to increase their divine credentials. Some troops join your cult with each victory or abandon it with each defeat. Leaders who cross a divine emperor may be thrown to the lions or forced to fight champion gladiators in the arena. Other religions are either absorbed as cults or outlawed with adherents massacred in the games.

BTW - I’d also like an elephant skeleton alongside humpfrey.

 

[Knüppel]

It being secular in core design was one of the biggest pro's of Mount&Blade. Don't change it.
Also disappointed thought this was about riding big elephants ig

 

[banders]

Maybe we can also introduce communism and facism? I want to roleplay as a dictator as I seize the means of production and kill the nobles.

 

[Rabies]

Like it or not, religion was essential in times when people thought the Earth was flat.

Ah, this a commonly quoted myth.

There was never a time when people believed the Earth was flat religion was essential.

 

[JuanNieve]

You know is true

 

[Triune Impurity Rites 999]

If they implemented religion I would start a Holy War against anyone who was different than my religion/faction. Just like my favorite religion.

KILL THEM ALL

I honestly thought this was about elephants, what click bait.

 

[Mad Vader]

I thought this was about elephants the feature that is needed in this game as much as the nord invasion DLC. They already told us about Humphrey the camel now we need to learn about Tuskrey the elephant.

BTW - I’d also like an elephant skeleton alongside humpfrey.

Also disappointed thought this was about riding big elephants ig

I honestly thought this was about elephants, what click bait.

It's a metaphor for the lack of religion in Mount and Blade!
Alternatively, they can be used to stomp out the unbelievers.

But here you go, so you won't feel cheated.

 

[Dethikus]

It being secular in core design was one of the biggest pro's of Mount&Blade. Don't change it.
Also disappointed thought this was about riding big elephants ig

Being "secular in core design" was one of the biggest pros? lmao this wouldnt even make top 500, how <snip>

 

[orgrinrt]

It being secular in core design was one of the biggest pro's of Mount&Blade. Don't change it.
Also disappointed thought this was about riding big elephants ig

Being "secular in core design" was one of the biggest pros? lmao this wouldnt even make top 500, how <snip>

Well that's certainly a nice way to put it.

 

[KhergitLancer80]

This is my thinking but maybe the reason TW dislike the idea of religion is because in countries like Iran, Turkey, Egypt (actually even in western countries like France) the entellectual part of society tend to hate religions and religions have a feature of similiarizing cultures especially islam. If Khuzaits believe in Aserai religion they will be Aserified (clothes, architecture...)

But apart from this there can be other reasons like

1)It can complicate things, if noone in the game converts to another religion it will look unrealistic on the other hand it is too complex to implement a conversion system. For example a Khuzait village has converted to Aserai religion, this village and the recruits from it will be more willing to be under aserai rule. But to what extent, how will the conversion happen ?
2) Religions dont always spread the way factions do. I mean one village from one faction may believe in the neigbour factions religion.
And that would dramatically change the diplomacy balance of the game.
3) If they make religion completely non effective to diplomacy gameplay then this will make it very unrealistic simply because it is not fit to human nature.


My advice: Calradians shall be deist just as in warband.

 

[Life_Erikson]

It is 2019 so everybody gets buthurt (to put it mildly) about religion. Chances are that if Taleworlds included religion in the game it would resemble real religions.
One way or another people will get furious about it when they feel that some religion is portrayed in a bad light.
We do not live in a secular society anymore. Blasphemy laws are on the march.

I think implementing religion is a great idea though. Just leave it up to the modders so Taleworlds doesn't get into trouble for it.

 

[Mad Vader]

Yes, modders can take the abuse.
Though I don't think there were controversies with mods covering the crusades, something you would expect if you follow the world news.

Perhaps TaleWorlds is being too timid and uncreative over religion. They don't take Calradia lore as seriously as they should to create an immersive, believable world, and religion would plug a big hole in the lore, apart from offering new gameplay.

 

[Kentucky 『 ＨＥＩＧＵＩ 』 James]

It is 2019 so everybody gets buthurt (to put it mildly) about religion. Chances are that if Taleworlds included religion in the game it would resemble real religions.
One way or another people will get furious about it when they feel that some religion is portrayed in a bad light.
We do not live in a secular society anymore. Blasphemy laws are on the march.

This is complete nonsense. There are literally hundreds of strategy games with real religions in them and nobody has complained. You can sack Mecca in EU4 and nobody minds. You can assassinate the pope in Medieval 2 total war and nobody complained. You can genocide Jerusalem in a lot of games and nobody bats an eyelid.

The world hasn't become "more offended", you're just exposing yourself to it more.

 

[Dethikus]

It is 2019 so everybody gets buthurt (to put it mildly) about religion. Chances are that if Taleworlds included religion in the game it would resemble real religions.
One way or another people will get furious about it when they feel that some religion is portrayed in a bad light.
We do not live in a secular society anymore. Blasphemy laws are on the march.

The world hasn't become "more offended", you're just exposing yourself to it more.

He may be a bit wrong in that plenty of stuff can happen still in games but youre obviously very sheltered if you dont think the world has become more offended, in the west at least