A Better Approach to Magic, and other topics.

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Elaviel

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Personally, I think that proper magic would ruin the game. However, I think we can tackle this in a much more mature way than "Casting thunderbolts and brimstone" at it. I think we should have a much more sophisticated system - on a church/cathedral basis. Another suggestion like this was made using the Darklands basis. But I also think that enchanted items would add a lot more variety and spice to the game. I personally oppose bringing a fantasy/magic edge to the game, but i think that we can reach the same effect while still being historically correct. ALCHEMISTS! No lightning bolts or fantasy crap, but a new skill affected by intelligence that lets you mix ingredients and chemicals found at the merchant or as loot to make dangerous or healing potions or mixtures.

Crafting - We do need it. Then we can further put to use wool, iron, linen, furs etc.

Cooking - Someone discussed (in fact polled) the idea of hunting. I support it as a method of obtaining food and skins for furs/leather. Linking to my Crafting sub.

Land Plots - Rewards for quests can be land - build your house by cutting lumber etc. You can also do things like grow cattle and livestock.You would have to protect the herd from thieves and wolves etc.

Thief Class - Stealing from merchants etc. Special items etc lockpicks.

REPLENISHING STORES!!! We need them. Otherwise when you sell loot you fill up all the slots in their invent and cant earn n e more money. NPC's need to slowly earn money eg overnight so they can pay for wares.

Slots - Cape/Cloak: AC bonus, etc.
- Gauntlets : Already Discussed im sure.
- Saddlebags: Somewhere to store equip on your horse for weapon change in battle without having to go back to invent.
 
I'm wondering whether you can pull off a palcebo effect. Give a player an amulet, say it's 'enchanted' and makes you hit faster and gives you better odds at doing certain things, but in reality it doesn't.
 
i'm fine with a bit of magic suck as enchanting and blesses that do barely anything.
but if it involves seeing stars fly, then i'd oppose to it.
 
Please no alchemists, they belong into the Renaissance not in the Middle Ages. As a mod, however, magic and fantasy could be cool.

I don#t know if I would need a thief class but it would depend on hwo exactly they would differ from the other classes.
 
Goofy said:
Please no alchemists, they belong into the Renaissance not in the Middle Ages.

Is that the best excuse? I have heard it many times. Be more creative lah. anyway who said no one played with chemicals in Calradia? You dont always have to follow so strictly to an arbitrary or antiqated idea of mediveal, though the museum will thank you for it and maybe give you a medal made using authentic mediveal metalwork which probably means a steel doughnut.

Anyway yeah, i agree to a replacement of magic. Alchemist will be fine, but i got something else nicer in my head. I'll post something creative after i think through, unlike saying some overused phrase like a printer.
 
I like the idea about the new classes but yeah, no "elemental" spells or crap like that.
 
Hey no name,

this is no excuse, that is my opinion, ok and for that I was explicitly asked by Elaviel. I like the rather realistic approach of Mount and Blade and from the few posts I have read I got the impression that I am not the only one. Plus my idea of the Middle Ages is neither arbitrary nor antiquated as I have quite an interest in this time period since more than six years.
 
Hey hey hey, what i am saying is in general not you specifically. I meant that you shouldn't hear a suggestion and put it down just by saying its not accurate. That'll be a pitiful reason. Ease up.
 
OK, I see your point. Let's just say I'm extremly busy at the moment and have not time to formulate a very sophisticated answer but wanted to give at least some comment. Still I think uttering the wish to keep M&B within the boundaries of the Middle Ages is a valid comment. :wink:
 
While M&B is clearly inspired by the European medieval period, it is also Armagan's version of an alternate world and that right there allows him to stray from a sharply defined "this is historical, this is not" limitation.

So, alchemy and alchemists wouldn't necessarily be anachronistic in this game. Armagan's not necessarily bound to follow our actual historical timeline so the argument against/for alchemy shouldn't, imo, be based on Earth history but on whether it fundamentally alters the spirit of the game As for alchemy in particular, I've no strong opinion; it seems so minor a presence, that it wouldn't seem to change the balance of power from swords and steel.

I'm against magic in this version of the game, but as I've suggested in the past, I'm not against the idea that Caladrians believe in the supernatural and may be motivated by these beliefs: the Dark Knights could be cultists of some sort, trying to win the favor of their Dark Lord. Swadian knights may fight harder/better against certain factions based on their religious vows. Some factions may believe their weapons have been blessed ("enchanted") and therefore they wield them more effectively than others.

The spirit of the game, for me, is more of a somewhat reality-based combat game derived from a medieval theme, and not a strict attempt to recreate a historical European world. I think that in general Elaviel's post would add additional background/atmosphere to a game that is a bit lacking in content so far. I'm looking forward to mods that add magic and history and, in the future, versions of M&B that focus on different eras. But for now, I think the original post in this thread has plenty to think about.
 
Please no alchemists, they belong into the Renaissance not in the Middle Ages.

That's crazy talk.

Alchemists and the use of alchemy have existed dating back to the earliest written records up until the 18th century, and to suggest Alchemists existed only during Renaissance times is incredibly ignorant. Alchemists were basically the forerunners of today's scientists.

In the 13th to 14th century (in which this game is most likely set), alchemists held especially widespread and held high positions in courts, with grand promises of miraculous feats such as transforming metals to more precious materials and the like. Even if they did nothing, at the very least they'd be entertainers, showing off tricks with their work from time to time and giving prestige to any lord that could afford one.

Some links about alchemy in ancient times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemy
http://www.crystalinks.com/alchemists.html

And yes, I think Darklands had a very effective way of handling "magic". Basically anything people commonly believed back then to be true was included in the game. People were religious, but also feared satanic practices and were very superstitious so they were afraid of witches, curses and the like, and prayed to saints for blessings/aid/protection.. some say the effects might have been psychological, so it was reflected as such in the game. Someone with high religion could pray for better healing (which would take up to weeks of game time without aid) to speed it up maybe to 5 days, but you'd also have to be a virtuous person, donate to the church,etc. There were no lightning bolts, fireballs, time stopping or anything crazy, but alchemists could mix potions that made the opponent's armor itchy, splatter them with corrosive chemicals, stuff like that.
 
I don't think I'd mind alchemy, as long as we had no healing potions. That one, is too much like every other game I've played. I would still stick to my thoughts that this would be better as a mod. I feel too much of this would alter the flavor of the main game, and I don't think I'd like that.
 
I wouldn't mind pagan magic, for example you do a Fed Ex quest for some Wotan or Druid group as long as it isn't giving you crazy super powers like in D&D it would be OK, as someone else suggested a few months ago these people would believe in the supernatural and in gods and it would just be normal life. I bet there is a placebo effect in real life, when you feel like the Almighty is on your side you can fight like a devil.
 
Thats what I mean. Alchemists DID exist then. I don't mean healing potions - that would wreck the game and eliminate the need for other skills like surgery. But I mean alchemists could mix acids etc for use in battle. Or maybe even create chemicals to prevent rust etc (Which could be added to the game rather than "Rusty" scimitar, this would be acquired through use). I Also believe that magic belongs in a mod. But the blessing and things like in Darklands would add a little more background and variety in the game. As of yet, I have seen no use for the "alignment" section in descrip, and maybe that could be what god eg made up gods or the whole god/lucifer thing. This would influence what blessings, enchants etc could be "bestowed" upon a weapon or person. And I think that yes, it should be kept psychological. And if you dont agree, maybe it could just be a mod. But I believe the game needs a religion. Also, more variety in enemies, more quests. I like JonathanStrange's comment "Swadian knights may fight harder/better against certain factions based on their religious vows. Some factions may believe their weapons have been blessed ("enchanted") and therefore they wield them more effectively than others. " This is much more the direction i am suggesting.
 
While I don't particularly like your idea for magic, all of your other ideas are superb. For so long I've wanted a game where I could chop down wood to build a house, or trek through the forest on foot, searching for animals to hunt, skin, and meake leather. Not the lame base that MMORPGS use where you can't DO anything. I'd like to be able to walk to the mountains and slowly and ponderously mine enough ore to make arrowheads, or chop wood and make arrowshafts, feathers for the end from animals, etc. But most of all, the ability to build my house and put things in it, not just' buying lots'.
 
Although I think we need religion like we need an other hole in our heads...
I do have to agree that it is fitting for a pre-science society in which the unknown was still mysterious and strange... It wouldn't be out of place at all in the game.. Heck, there already is in the form of the priest and nun character.. It just needs fleshing out...

As for Alchemy... thanks but no thanks...
Those alchemists mentioned previously had positions at courst not because of the wonders they could do with the elements (chemicals), but they often had subskills that were highly regarded... Like designing weapons of war, siege equipment.. (eg. Da Vinci)Stuff that even if as a lord you didn't really want, you couldn't let your enemies have either... :smile:
Then there were of course the promises of Gold from lead and the 'elixir of life'...
Other skills like 'prophecy' (nostradamus) were popular with some of the more gullable heads of state.. Pretty much in the same way as Psychic hotlines do a thriving business these days... That doesn't mean Psychics are anything more than con artists...

The game can do without such crap...

Go for the religions with some minor blessings, holy days and generic virgin sacrifices.. :wink:
 
Syloki - may i remind you that this is NOT following the history of our earth. What I am suggesting with alchemists is that in THIS world, Calradia, they may exist, and have more use than your comments imply. It is also unnescessary to abuse other people on this forum, and would be well advised if you would keep some comments to yourself. Yes, you are perfectly allowed to express your views, but in a non-offensive, non-aggressive manner. I am in no way saying that you are not correct, however, as this was very much the case.

And DamnedChoir: Thanks :wink: Im glad you like them!
 
Elaviel, firstly, where was i offensive and agressive? I was simply stating a few facts... I certainly did NOT abuse anyone on this forum.. I have no reason to, the people i've encountered here so far all seem pretty mature and easy to get along with...

Secondly, I know full well that the game isn't in our history, although, looking at the game, one could say that it is making use of our technological advances through the ages. thus it is fair to say that it is an alternate path rather than a fantasy based game...
I just don't see alchemy as playing a big part in combat/warfare in any 'realistic' setting... trying to make it so, denegrates the game to simple fantasy. In which case, why not put the undead back in? And some goblins and unicorns?!

I've simply stated my opinion, I'm not right or wrong, and in the end I'll still play the game regardless of what is decided. If it is added, I just feel it will detract from the intended flavour, rather than add to it...

Then there is the problem of logical means of 'using' these acids and rust concoctions... but i guess thats a moot point when going down a fantasy path...
 
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