7 new maps, Ranked and Battle mode, hundreds of balance changes

Users who are viewing this thread

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
I sincerely respect the opinion of every member of the gaming community🤗 (if it's not rotten trolling), but despite the fact that you guys are in the majority, I can't agree with you about Rambo's leash.
I've won a ton of captains mode games (probably more than any other crazy inhabitant of this galaxy👽) but I still get my dose of dopamine every time I play it. Especially exciting for me are matches in which the team uses joint tactical work.
Confronting Rambo's skillful tactics is just one of those cases that requires such teamwork. And with adequate teamwork, such a confrontation almost always ends in failure for the Rambo player.
This allows existing game mechanics to do this (there is no imba Rambo!). Of course, they are not easy and require your efforts to master them for yourself.
But we all understand that learning to play the role of Rambo cav well is also very difficult and requires no less time and effort. Why, then, do we want to deprive cavalry players of the ability to use their skills, instead of also increasing ours? After all, they honestly earned them at the cost of large expenditures of their energy and life time!
Rambo's tactics are also quite consistent with the principle of game realism (the main universally recognized principle for building successful simulation games). Being able to distance yourself from your squad is an absolute must for many tactical moves (limiting all of this along with Rambo cav is the main problem of the leash, think about it friends: @badbuckle @Callum @Dejan @Duh_TaleWorlds ). After all, a good commander who does not see an acceptable opportunity for his squad to successfully attack the enemy will not send him to death before he finds such an opportunity (and you can always kick the "blind" or anti-command Rambo👮‍♂️).
To be continued... (maybe🤔)
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
ok, I'll continue:
I myself rarely use cavalry and do not abuse Rambo tactics. At the start of the game, I mostly capture flags alone, look for enemy cavalry, unprotected units vulnerable to my cavalry, or an advantageous direction for my unit to attack during melee. Of course, along the way, I kill careless opponents whenever possible, but killings in this game are not yet prohibited (right? or did I miss something😕). As soon as the opportunity arises for the use of my squad, I do it.
But what would I have been doing all this time if I had a leash, idk. After all, if you are tied to your squad, you will have to start smoking (dangerous🚭) to wait out the time before opening a non-suicidal game opportunity.
But much more I'm afraid that with the introduction of the captain's leash, you will literally "steal my laughter" (which I paid for💲by the way). If you do not need to be able to counter Rambo cav, it will not be possible to use many tactical elements related to moving away from your squad, then the skills of experienced players will be depreciated and the potential for their possible progress will be exhausted.
This can ruin our interest, kick us out of the game, and forever lose the prospect of replenishing Captain Mode fans with experienced players from other MP modes.
Therefore, Rambo cav (probably with some reasonable restrictions), as well as other complex tactics, should continue to bring variety and life (along with this) to captain mode (by the way, but on a different topic - linking effects to new weapons/armor instead of perks even more would diversify and deepen the game).
@badbuckle @Callum @Dejan @Duh_TaleWorlds please don't turn this MP mode into a noob sandbox!
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
and a little note:
Do not forget that the introduction of a leash, affecting many elements of the gameplay, will require a lot of effort and time to optimize its functioning. As a result, this will significantly reduce the degree of pre-release readiness of the captain's mode and, as a result, the Game as a whole.
The release of the Game will give a new impetus to the influx of capital to developers, which, in the future, will be a boon for BL fans as well.
As of today, Captain Mode looks almost ready for release. Only detachments with throwing weapons require the necessary attention, everything else is not critical, IMHO.
 

Zarthas

Knight
Sorry buddy, you're alone in this Aliaksandr.
Leash is a hard fix for several extant problems in Captain mode that would otherwise take another year to resolve. It is easy to implement and understand. It will improve the game mode because we no longer have to nerf Cavalry into the ground to prevent Solocav play. Missile troops will become important again. Formation and Engagement become primary concerns again more so than Kiting tactics.

Its just a good thing all around and there's nothing to be gained by leaving it out.
Warband captain servers had leashing, it was very enjoyable. Don't be afraid of the change!
 

Cek

Squire
Sorry buddy, you're alone in this Aliaksandr.
Leash is a hard fix for several extant problems in Captain mode that would otherwise take another year to resolve. It is easy to implement and understand. It will improve the game mode because we no longer have to nerf Cavalry into the ground to prevent Solocav play. Missile troops will become important again. Formation and Engagement become primary concerns again more so than Kiting tactics.

Its just a good thing all around and there's nothing to be gained by leaving it out.
Warband captain servers had leashing, it was very enjoyable. Don't be afraid of the change!
I agree with Zarthas here, i think the "leash" will put the captain mode back in track to more what it should be, a fight between two armies not a skirmish game with more life.

I think right now a lot of captain player (myself included) are taking the bad habit of going alone against the enemy as infantry, because it is a low risk high reward action, expecially if you are more skilled than the enemy you can kill a lot with risking only your life while your troops are safe somewhere.

It would be also interesting to see a reductiong to heavy infantry shield hit points, it would make skirmisher and archer a little more usefull and also give some use to perks that give bonus to shield damage (never saw a shield breaking recently).
Another flaw of this mode i can see right now it is that most melee fight are over in a very short time frame, not giving you the possibility to do any type of maneuver (for example flanking the enemy).
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
I agree with Zarthas here, i think the "leash" will put the captain mode back in track to more what it should be, a fight between two armies not a skirmish game with more life.

I think right now a lot of captain player (myself included) are taking the bad habit of going alone against the enemy as infantry, because it is a low risk high reward action, expecially if you are more skilled than the enemy you can kill a lot with risking only your life while your troops are safe somewhere.

It would be also interesting to see a reductiong to heavy infantry shield hit points, it would make skirmisher and archer a little more usefull and also give some use to perks that give bonus to shield damage (never saw a shield breaking recently).
Another flaw of this mode i can see right now it is that most melee fight are over in a very short time frame, not giving you the possibility to do any type of maneuver (for example flanking the enemy).

Your last point is one of the most significant. TTK is very quick when two infantry blobs hit each other. If you do anything other than help in the immediate fight, your team will most likely lose. The value you get from flanks or having archers in a good angle doesn't really matter when infantry do so much damage to each other.
 

Zarthas

Knight
Your last point is one of the most significant. TTK is very quick when two infantry blobs hit each other. If you do anything other than help in the immediate fight, your team will most likely lose. The value you get from flanks or having archers in a good angle doesn't really matter when infantry do so much damage to each other.
Hard agree. TTK was longer at launch, small unit movements during a fight were much more possible and important (Sturgian Shield square to draw aggro was so damn cool). Engagement is so important now because an infantry fight will be over in seconds.
It would be also interesting to see a reductiong to heavy infantry shield hit points, it would make skirmisher and archer a little more usefull and also give some use to perks that give bonus to shield damage (never saw a shield breaking recently).
We've talked about this before, there's that multiplier in place.

Still think Captain Mode Shield Multiplier needs to be reduced.

The game is less interesting than it should be, less coherent, and has less decision space because of the multiplier.
 

Roy1012

Archduke
and a little note:
Do not forget that the introduction of a leash, affecting many elements of the gameplay, will require a lot of effort and time to optimize its functioning. As a result, this will significantly reduce the degree of pre-release readiness of the captain's mode and, as a result, the Game as a whole.
The release of the Game will give a new impetus to the influx of capital to developers, which, in the future, will be a boon for BL fans as well.
As of today, Captain Mode looks almost ready for release. Only detachments with throwing weapons require the necessary attention, everything else is not critical, IMHO.
There’s an edit button.
 

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
Hard agree. TTK was longer at launch, small unit movements during a fight were much more possible and important (Sturgian Shield square to draw aggro was so damn cool). Engagement is so important now because an infantry fight will be over in seconds.

We've talked about this before, there's that multiplier in place.

Still think Captain Mode Shield Multiplier needs to be reduced.

The game is less interesting than it should be, less coherent, and has less decision space because of the multiplier.

I think if there were less troops, then infantry fights would be even faster. Their damage just needs to be toned down.

They do about the same damage as Shock, when shock don't have shields, armor, or spears/spear perks.
 

Zarthas

Knight
I think if there were less troops, then infantry fights would be even faster. Their damage just needs to be toned down.

They do about the same damage as Shock, when shock don't have shields, armor, or spears/spear perks.
I agree with you on both counts. I don't have anything to demonstrate it, but it seems we have had a steady baseline lethality creep overall in multiplayer since launch. (Aside from large nerfs on particular weapon categories, javs/bows/menavs/etc).
Good for Skirmish and Battle, but makes Captain a bit less enjoyable.

Not sure where I suggested troop counts should be lower though!
 

VicbossOG

Regular
RIP Rambo McCavalryman, you will not be missed. Second reducing captain mode shield modifiers/ increasing range accuracy of troops with throwing weapons. Captain mode right now has a use for just about every unit, barring two for just about every faction that has them. Light cavalry and Skirmish troops are the bane of this mode right now, anyone who picks them essentially hands the enemy an advantage because they don't perform nearly as well as either archers or heavy cavalry. Two wasted slots that need some work asap imo, for every faction.
 

Horatius

On probation
WBNWVC
Might be an interesting test to set captain health to 150 or 175% and arrow damage to 125% or something to increase TTK but not nerf archers too hard. Bigger longer fights would be more interesting.
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
Hard agree. TTK was longer at launch, small unit movements during a fight were much more possible and important (Sturgian Shield square to draw aggro was so damn cool). Engagement is so important now because an infantry fight will be over in seconds.

We've talked about this before, there's that multiplier in place.

Still think Captain Mode Shield Multiplier needs to be reduced.

The game is less interesting than it should be, less coherent, and has less decision space because of the multiplier.
Exactly.
The effectiveness of many tactical elements related to the use of formations and flanking was significantly reduced in patch 1.6.1 as a result of a decrease in unit survivability. And this despite the fact that shields were also strengthened there, which led to a bunch of other problems (related to playing as skirmishers and the uselessness of shield-destroying perks/weapons).
Shields remained intact, and their owners - dead :rolleyes:.
Unfortunately, this example shows that the good intentions of the developers to optimize the complex mechanics of the game do not always work in its favor. Hence my concern about the impact on the game of leash for Rambo.
 
Last edited:

AxiosXiphos

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&SNWVC
Exactly.
The effectiveness of many tactical elements related to the use of formations and flanking was significantly reduced in patch 1.6.1 as a result of a decrease in unit survivability. And this despite the fact that shields were also strengthened there, which led to a bunch of other problems (related to playing as skirmishers and the uselessness of shield-destroying perks/weapons).
Shields remained intact, and their owners - dead :rolleyes:.
Unfortunately, this example shows that the good intentions of the developers to optimize the complex mechanics of the game do not always work in its favor. Hence my concern about the impact on the game of leash for Rambo.
However - near enough everyone is in total agreement that Rambo needs to go. It's not TW introducing an unasked for update - it's a much requested feature.

Again - i will reiterate this most important point.

Captains mode is a game mode where you lead units of bots into team battles. The entire point of the mode is to for players to be using their bots as troops; for their positioning and tactics to matter towards victory.

Any mechanic which allows you to circumvent the primary purpose of the mode needs to be removed. Rambo in captains is akin to Multiple-Spawns in Battle Mode. It is against the primary purpose of the game mode. I will also argue that Rambo does not require high-skill; any player can perform it adequately because it is low-risk. At worst you lose a single life (out of 10+). So any player that can kill 2-3 bots per life can rambo effectively (and hopefully 99% of M&B players are capable of that).

So let's not pretend it's a high-skill strategy that requires training and practice.
 

Greedalicious

Grandmaster Knight
WB
Hi everyone!

First of all, thank you all for the warm welcome! Also i want to thank @NIN3 for the hard work, and wishing all the luck for the future endeavors. I’ll be happy to see you around any time, thank you!

It's very nice to see so many people are really interested in multiplayer and how it develops, also very encouraged to give helpful feedbacks and basically try to help out. I’m also planning to stay in touch with the community and get as many comments as possible at all times.

About the upcoming patch 1.7.2, even though Paul did a great job explaining all the details in the changelog, if you have any questions/comments, feel free to communicate and i'll try my best to contact back with solutions/answers as much as i can.

Thank you all for the welcomes again! :party:
I'm abit late. Hi and welcome :iamamoron:
 

Aliaksandr

Sergeant
However - near enough everyone is in total agreement that Rambo needs to go. It's not TW introducing an unasked for update - it's a much requested feature.

Again - i will reiterate this most important point.

Captains mode is a game mode where you lead units of bots into team battles. The entire point of the mode is to for players to be using their bots as troops; for their positioning and tactics to matter towards victory.

Any mechanic which allows you to circumvent the primary purpose of the mode needs to be removed. Rambo in captains is akin to Multiple-Spawns in Battle Mode. It is against the primary purpose of the game mode. I will also argue that Rambo does not require high-skill; any player can perform it adequately because it is low-risk. At worst you lose a single life (out of 10+). So any player that can kill 2-3 bots per life can rambo effectively (and hopefully 99% of M&B players are capable of that).

So let's not pretend it's a high-skill strategy that requires training and practice.
You are only talking about the ultimate goal - the complete removal Rambo from the CM. You mean only Rambo-cav, and also do not focus on the stated method of achieving this goal. Well, I respect your opinion, but I have any remarks:
It is obvious to me that you are making a mistake in arguing the justice of your radicalism in relation to the sad fate of really great cava players, claiming that their skills are ordinary.
I justified my disagreement with the complete removal of Rambo-cav, based on my opposite opinion formed over the period of my gaming experience (99% is about 90% more than in CM there are Rambo-cavs who "can kill 2-3 bots per life" not until the end of the round🤫).
But this is not the main thing.
My main concerns are:
1) The chosen method of solving the problem (which I don’t consider as such, as you understand), namely the “leash”, will affect all classes of units, and not just cav's squads.
This is the moment that worries me the most. Will the developers be able to fix Rambo-cav problem in this way without harming my obsession with this MP mode? (here they recalled the negative aspects of patch 1.6.1, which is generally good as planned).
2) To achieve the goal of completely removing Rambo-cav, this leash must be so short that playing for the cavalry, as it seems to me, can become absurd. And even a small length of the "leash" of the cav captain will not interfere with the "true Rambo", but will turn the gameplay into a nightmare with a cav bots squad, looming near the battlefield.
 
Last edited:

Brandis.

Subforum Moderator
I agree with you on both counts. I don't have anything to demonstrate it, but it seems we have had a steady baseline lethality creep overall in multiplayer since launch. (Aside from large nerfs on particular weapon categories, javs/bows/menavs/etc).
Good for Skirmish and Battle, but makes Captain a bit less enjoyable.

Not sure where I suggested troop counts should be lower though!

My bad, must have misread what you said
 
Top Bottom