.635[Physics] Horses skip, gallop in same spot and jump over bodies

amade

Grandmaster Knight
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Yeouch, this one is heavy. Playing .635 I've been experiencing very odd skipping moments in the past few days (sort of like character or horse position not updating in sync when you lag in MP). But since this is SP and what with other issues I've been encountering I'm guessing it has something to do with the physics. The skipping moments are a lot more noticeable while riding a horse but also happens while walking on foot though it isn't very apparent due to the slow speed.

While riding you can sometimes see other horsemen display a certain behaviour where the model moves back and forth (skipping) while galloping forward at speed. During some of the skipping moments I would also hear the hoofbeats of my horse repeat the same step several times (as if the horse is skipping on one foot, weird but there you go). Quite frequently horses would also run in the same spot for a second or two before proceeding normally. Another thing I noticed but not sure if it's the physics engine playing merry hell or an intended feature is that all horses are now very difficult to maneuver even if I slow down and execute a turn.

Horses whose riders have fallen sometimes would be catapulted into the air when it walks over the body of the fallen rider. On one occasion after I've killed the rider of a horse, the horse walked over my horse instead of being obstructed by it.
Possibly related thread: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,84857.0.html

Anyone else can confirm this?
 

Lt. of the tower

Any possible screenshots for this? I know it is hard to capture the essence of what you are saying in a picture but I wana have a good idea what to look out for. I have seen the skipping before, but I also find horses skipping/going into the air when either moving or fighting in big clusters of men. All I know is cavalry/horses and the new physics system the being naughty. Check this out:

 

amade

Grandmaster Knight
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Here's a video of it.

http://www.4shared.com/file/158694343/1399c88c/skippy_jumpy_horses.html


I don't have any video compressing software on my PC except for Windows Movie Makers so... I guess it'll have to do for now. If you can't play it or if it plays too jerky on 4shared you can right click this link and save link/target as into your PC.



Summary of video:

Throughout the video even with the low FPS you can see the horses skip most of the time (very apparent at the start of the video). I also had difficulty turning and on some occasions (at 1:09 min, 1:29 and at 1:43) my horse would run at the same spot while I turn.

At 21 sec and at the end of the video you can see horses walking or jumping over other bodies/horses.

At 30 sec you can see a foolish steppe bandit who wasn't looking where he was going... admittedly, so was I. But do note how he fell off the horse, and the second steppe bandit who fell off his horse too at 37 sec.

At 45 sec is just a demo of what 1st person looks like when couching using a round cavalry shield. Obviously, such shields were not meant to be used with couch lancing. If you use a Horseman's shield instead you can see the tip of your lance so you can aim it. Apart from that it has nothing to do with the original topic. But overall I like how the devs have tweaked the couch animation better while using shields.



Oh, btw... a nice surprise is that them horse archers are working properly again. I didn't see it in the latest changelog, or did I miss it? Anyhow, great job TW!
 

TalonAquila

Sergeant Knight
M&BWBWF&S
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amade said:
Oh, btw... a nice surprise is that them horse archers are working properly again. I didn't see it in the latest changelog, or did I miss it? Anyhow, great job TW!
surprised me the first time a step bandit shot me from behind!  (slightly understated).
 

amade

Grandmaster Knight
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An update:

I just noticed that you can't charge through your own troops (may have been intentional) but you also can't charge through and knock down enemy troops without coming to an abrupt stop. This is while galloping at high speed using a charger.

This does make charging through enemy ranks impossible and couch lancing a bit harder because the merest collision will cause your horse to rear and halt. I've also begun to suspect that the skipping horses are in fact skipping the same way players skip when climbing at the top of the stairs, except that the horse is doing this at a very high trajectory.
 

daumor

Knight
WB
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Also noticed this. And charge damage is far reduced. I was stopped dead in my tracks by a looter. On a heavy warhorse.

Fat *****...
 

Lt. of the tower

Ok, so it wasn't my **** riding then. Explains why I got stopped in clusters of men. I am going to go play around and see how often this stuff occurs for me.
 

Lt. of the tower

Hmm riding was so-so. I wanted to see if things were funny when just generally riding, not fighting or in battle. It was a little skippy, turning seemed stange. I will go back and do some more in battle riding tests. Just out of curiosities sake.
 

amade

Grandmaster Knight
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amade said:
I've also begun to suspect that the skipping horses are in fact skipping the same way players skip when climbing at the top of the stairs, except that the horse is doing this at a very high trajectory.
I'm pretty much convinced now that this is the case, with horses travelling over uneven terrain at a very fast rate it skips like when players try to climb stairs with the current physics system. So it happens in battles and in all other scenes.
 

Lt. of the tower

Makes sense. I actually tried to walk a horse up stairs in a test scene, I had a run up so I could at least move up the stair. I got the same result as trying to walk up the stairs on foot.
 

2Coats

Recruit
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Ive also experienced this on .635.  Lots of jumping from party merc. cav/horsemen, plus also my player character.

From what I have noticed in many, many combats, it tends to happen because the enemy force is i) bunched to begin with and ii) when the melee is joined after the first chargers crashing into the enemy host, the host remains bunched up and every unit on the battlefield (practically) ends up pilling in.  The end result seems to indicate some sort of "force" stopping the mass of forces from splitting into isolated groups, though this does happen after one side gains the avantage in numbers over the other (usually my side).

I remember from the first game that the mass of melee was really more than one single mass, in that groups formed and split in numbers depending on where the links (men) between groups where cut down. This isnt happening until the numbers of opponents have dwindled to single figures.

Have noticed this in open battles and in villages.  Havent tried many sieges yet so cant really say here.

I would also concur that the in my battles (I tend to use mainly merc cav/hrsemen) because mounted units are unable to charge through or between lines of enemy forces, units become butched up once first contact is made.

- Hope this makes sense.  Ask if any more info is required.  And yes, it happens in every battle where there are more than half-dozen enemy to fight against.