.635.1 [Question+suggestion] Economy and Production Values

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Riggea 说:
Ok, what is a village for? Villages are the towns, and centers suppliers, they supply all of the local goods, so they DO have an arrangement with the towns, thats why you only find really little stuff in there. That is how they survive, not because of tourist and merchants, there ain't such a thing in Mount and Blade (maybe in some mods it could be found, but not in native). Villages send their goods to towns, that is how they make money. And if you go passing by there, and will buy stuff from them, they will sell it more expensively thant they would to the town, just to make a profit out of it.

They may have an arrangement for abstract goods, but not for goods present in the village inventory. The player does buy from villages, and so we can assume others are doing the same even if it isn't represented in the system. As for the last sentence, it just isn't correct. They'll make a profit out of it anyway.

I believe it is for the sake of balance, if you don't like it, well, you know there is always the "Zaro's ultimate trading Mod for Mount and Blade" option xD.

It's not really needed for balance. As I said, nothing is available in much quantity in villages, and they're mainly goods with low margins anyway. This is a thread related to the game economy, so telling me to make it myself isn't very productive  :razz:. I'm not requesting it be changed, I'm just offering a counter point to Nijis's post (regarding cost of buying from the source versus through the middlemen).

 
The villager doesn't care who buys his produce, unless he has an agreement with a merchant in town to deliver a certain amount. If the passer-by is willing to pay an amount that is roughly what he would gain from doing business in town, then why would the villager reject the business? He wouldn't. He gets the money, and doesn't have to inconvenience himself with delivery in town.

The key here is that the village does not have a regular market -- perhaps a weekly market, at best. By buying in a village, you're going outside the normal channels.


The player does buy from villages, and so we can assume others are doing the same even if it isn't represented in the system.

I wasn't making that assumption, actually. You should be able to get something from a village if you're desperate for food, but it's not supposed to be a well-trodden path.

The villagers are going about their daily business. You, the player, are interrupting them. They haven't packaged their goods, they haven't calculated how much they need to store up for the winter or for spring planting, etc. They're going to do all of this eventually -- but only when they prepare to go to town themselves.

The player is asking the peasants to do a lot of extra work. He or she isn't really saving them much of a trip, as the villagers will have to go anyway to buy other goods that the player isn't carrying, and sell other goods that the player doesn't want.

Perhaps more importantly, the villagers are only hazily aware of the latest prices in town themselves. However, they don't think that player is there out of charity. Villagers are traditional folk, and are suspicious of anyone who isn't going through the usual channels -- which is to say, buying and selling at the regular market. They will part with their goods, but only if the player is willing to fork out so much cash that the villager can be pretty confident that he or she is not getting ripped off.

I don't want to incentivize buying at source, because as far as I'm aware, this is not how traders made a profit in the medieval era. They made a profit out of their willingness to travel considerable distances and their knowledge of price differences between regions, rather than within them.
 
I'm pretty well convinced. Your first post wasn't real clear on the village-as-a-back-channel-for-desperate-leaders-needing-supplies perspective. This makes much sense. Especially if the market town is besieged or otherwise inconvenient (too far away etc...)
 
I should certainly find a way to get the reasons across to the player, as it's understandable that folks would find this unintuitive. Anyway, I'm glad that you all raised the issue.
 
I was just testing this and realized pillaging villages is a really good deal! over 1000 denars with each raid, and just selling the trade goods, not the food xD. But you get in trouble with some factions, so its best just to raid one faction :wink:
 
Nijis 说:
The villagers are going about their daily business. You, the player, are interrupting them. They haven't packaged their goods, they haven't calculated how much they need to store up for the winter or for spring planting, etc. They're going to do all of this eventually -- but only when they prepare to go to town themselves.

If goods are on offer, it can be suggested that some is already prepared, and that it isn't really an inconvenience (after all, we buy from the village elder). I can see it from your point of view though.

I don't want to incentivize buying at source, because as far as I'm aware, this is not how traders made a profit in the medieval era. They made a profit out of their willingness to travel considerable distances and their knowledge of price differences between regions, rather than within them.

Traders would do both. Someone is needed to sell the goods locally, but obviously the greater profits were in exploiting regional price differences (such as silk was in our history). However, if a trader is buying small quantity from a village, he probably isn't very established. He can't yet operate on the lower margin or transport great quantity, so he has to search for the best bargins. This doesn't really matter though, as in game we're not going to go to villages to try and pick up the price difference in sausages or bread. We don't need better margins anyway!

nijis 说:
I should certainly find a way to get the reasons across to the player, as it's understandable that folks would find this unintuitive. Anyway, I'm glad that you all raised the issue.

More flavour in conversation wouldn't hurt. I can't remember, but does the Guild Master explain trading? If not, then I'd suggest a bit of "Trading 101".
 
i agree, Zaro, that a bit more flavor in conversation would be beneficial.
  i'm one of those who makes it a habit to buy the bulk of my supplies from villages as i pass them, especially when my company gets to be about 100 men strong.  with a 14 hour feeding schedule, the food disappears too quickly to pass up any opportunity to buy food items.
 
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