.

[Younes]

Not sure on other people but here are my reasons.
- No outfits/gear to choose from.
- I looked forward to the rumor of 400 player servers, Warband is 240-250 player servers. This game is only 150 player servers unless you were in Beta when they tested a Siege server.
- Server issues and queue, liked warband's style of choosing server.
- TDM spawns no good
- No battle mode or Persistent World where I can siege castles with the Trebuchet, catapult, ram, Ballista.

all in all I just play Last Oasis for time being. I do like Captain but you can only play the same 4 maps so much, needs more variation.

Do you really want to trust taleworlds on doing PW? like bruh

 

[Byas]

Do you really want to trust taleworlds on doing PW? like bruh

No but there could be a variation of Survival like gameplay for a mode, Game matches like Capture the flag/Teamdeathmatch feel so stagnant now unless it's something really unique or many players playing all at once. You know build castles and destroy them and stuff.

 

[Ruthven]

Also this is a huge misconception. Yes Warband had players that always came back to multiplayer but they where actually few. Warband have only had 3 months over a 8 year period where they have had a higher player count compared to Bannerlords lowest month.

I dont know where people get the idea of Warband being popular or played by many people. Warbands highest ever count was 39000 and this was one odd month and the average is about 13000 (both multiplayer and singleplayer counted) wich is absolutely nothing.

While I agree that Bannerlord has alot to work on and it can become much better I think we all can agree that the Warband formulare was'nt the best either if you look at the data.

Where are these stats from? I am guessing these are steam-only which is very inaccurate for Warband.

Also, a better metric for multiplayer games than player count is retention. Warband had amazing retention for a single-player game with a simplified multiplayer. Bannerlord's retention is terrible in multiplayer because there are like 30k people playing BL and only like 200 in MP.

Topic:
Agreed on pretty much every previous post, I will add: The experience of finding a game in BL is much worse as well. You have to seek out the server list (which is the most comfortable option for new players, since they can see exactly what they will be joining) or you wait in a queue for a completely indeterminable amount of time. Any time a game ends, you are returned to the home screen... Then if you want to play again you have to either wait in queue, or wait for the custom server to refresh, or join a different server (which always seems to end right after you load in). The whole system gives new players a lot of trouble to join a MP game and a lot of opportunities to leave.

 

[Caps]

No but there could be a variation of Survival like gameplay for a mode, Game matches like Capture the flag/Teamdeathmatch feel so stagnant now unless it's something really unique or many players playing all at once. You know build castles and destroy them and stuff.

Conquest would work with the gold system and a sapper system. New players just dont have working casual game modes, except tdm.

The gameplay is not fun because of archers and cav anyways.

 

[Marko͘]

I would probably break down the multiplayer scene for MnB into 3 main groups. There is obviously crossover between each but roughly you can split them into:

-Large scale fights and events
These people primarily like the game for the spectacle of having massive multiplayer battles. 100v100 sieges and battles etc. You could compare this to games like Battlefield or the like where it's all about the technical and atmospheric achievement, moments where you're less concerned about winning and closer to roleplaying a big movie fight or something. Siege and Battle was the main modes from Warband for these guys, but Captain can supply some of this.

-TDM, DM, randomers
These people just want to hop in and do some casual, fun stuff for an hour or two. They don't care about balance or the like (although their enjoyment is impacted by it, so it matters) as long as they can have fun. The class system absolutely does not work for these guys.

-Competitive/Tryhards
This is the smallest but most hardcore of the scene. They genuinely enjoy the game at a competitive level, want to get better at the game, and are very opinionated on what needs to change. Skirmish was geared towards these guys, but was not wholly accepted.

So with this in mind let's think about what Bannerlord has done with MP and think about how it impacts each group.

Servers
No private servers or options for hosting means events are out of the question, and that the few game types around that do cater to the large events crowd are wholly reliant on matchmaking and servers with the rules set by admins. Further, these servers kick you out after a game, meaning sometimes long waits between games unless everyone immediately requeues or rejoins. However servers are hosted for TDM which broadly works. For the competitive guys, matchmaking mostly works ok but runs into balance issues in terms of stacks vs solos and new players, which has not been addressed quickly enough.

Gameplay
The game has been heavily criticised by the more experienced players for numerous balance and quality of life issues, while it's likely a minority compared to the actual multiplayer scene, they are loud and impact the general atmosphere. I also personally think they are correct (I've been one of them) and while devs have worked to address some of the complaints, they have done so extremely slowly. It's been over a year for some of them considering beta started pre summer of 2019.

All that said, I do think the game has been playable from a casual perspective for a while now, so this primarily impacts long term play and doesn't necessarily account for the quick drop off of player numbers. It mainly impacts the competitive/enthusiast scene and so the tournaments that could be happening (combined with the server issues above) are not as hype and populated as they could be.

Classes
Classes were introduced to make it easier for players to pick something and get into the game without being unarmoured noobs, and also for balance reasons across all game types. It works fairly well and has had a lot of thought put into it - unfortunately, it also hinders player's who want to take certain approaches or equipment, which doesn't feel satisfying. As a competitive player, I disliked being forced into one class with X equipment or another class with Y - the Warband system allowed for more flexibility. For casual players, it loses its charm quickly and people want to go naked/troll/just spawn with a greataxe, whatever. And for balancing, it's actually does as much harm as good, as relatively simple issues ended up needing large overhauls across the economic and class system, and other measures to try and fix things end up having unintended side effects.

The only thing this does work for is Captain mode, which overall seems to be the most well made game mode, which seems to have a bit of a dedicated following.

Conclusion

The result is one where: large event players have nowhere to go, TDMers have somewhere to go but don't really enjoy it long term, and competitive players are at best, split on whether the game is even good.

So how do we fix this? Well, for me I think the devs need to stop trying a one-size-fits-all approach. Many of these groups need completely different solutions. For immediate actions though:

1) Private servers or at least the ability to host large scale matches via TW dedicated servers. This should have been a priority for day 1 early access, instead the devs have actively blocked it. This will rather quickly repopulate the game and address a bunch of other problems.

2) Scrap the class system for modes where it clearly isn't working or enjoyed. That's TDM, duel, and arguably Battle if something like it ever comes. It cannot be that hard to import the equipment system from SP into a basic Infantry/Archer/Cavalry set up, and to have the MP Armoury switch to that, with classes kept for Captain and maybe Skirmish. I bet a few modders could (and will) do this in a month.

3) Another round of combat testing. The first was successful in fixing some basic issues, but changes from a few hours feedback didn't trickle into the main game for something like 3 months. I know it's not as simple as inputting what 20 random people say on Discord into your code, but it should be a little quicker. I think this comes down to the one-size-fits-all approach, but the balance concerns for PvP are totally different from the concerns of SP or Captain mode - this could allow a diversified approach where you more quickly adjust combat and other balance issues for solely PvP modes.

What a great post.

One thing I'd just point out being primarily in the 'event' group in your categorisation is that Captain is no substitute for real 125v125 player fight, for pretty much all clans. Events are casual in the sense most of those players don't actively seek out to get really good in competitive but I'd argue they could also be divided into more hardcore and casual subsets depending on the attending clans skill and attitude(LARPers vs efficiency oriented groups), clan rivalry etc. I don't play a whole NW but even there besides having a ton of really basic events there also exist ones catered to really dedicated and skilled groups. It was a very diverse community in general for the past 10 years and I just don't see bots being a part of it, there is a lot of real player and group rivalry going on despite it not being small scale competitive.

All things considered, you're right that there's nothing for us to do in Bannerlord.

 

[Roadpork]

I can make a very long list that what BL should and shouldn't do.

But first thing first...

NA server is in NY.

Half number of my friends are enduring a high ping.

MP is a very high ping-related action game.

With a high ping, the game is sticky, unpredictable, so what's the point they play? none.
Once they get the badge you will never see them again until the game gets better.

If they have an at least 50ish ping. I can train them. "Be noob" is just a temporary status. But the ping is permanent
-----------
For skirmish:

I am ok with the class system. It makes things organized. I don't like it but I know you need some organizing to get everyone to enjoy a match.

I like the 3 flags idea. It's way better than WB did.

Each of the 3 categories has it's own problem. Those are nothing about balancing. But once people can not play what they want. They simply quit.
Ranger: the trajectory is not parallel with your sight. It intersects! Oh pls...
Cavalry: The map is not designed for cavalry battle. I am not a cav player might be it's not a big problem.
Infantry: Hold shield, look around, throw something. That's not it supposed to be. How about adding more melee?

I don't like 6 vs 6 people Skirmish. When you force ppl to choose a certain class and build a certain combo to win. You need to deal with "I either play DPS or die" situation. 6 people are not enough to guarantee an ideal formation. For instance, non-cav team is usually happening.

 

[Doctor_Noob]

Honestly having Custom servers and Battle and Map maker, made so many gamemodes possible I will just list a few. Shortlist of the more popular ones: Town RP and just RP servers(still I see 40ish players on Town RP everyday)Jailbreak was active for years till it was banned by Taleworlds,Just Battle honestly battle was loved by alot of the community and is very active and good for clans. Groupfighting just putting and a group in a arena and letting people teamfighting and there is usually two types Infantry and Cav. I know of other minigames that were popular I can't list every little niche minigames on some servers I know of.

 

[Ling*]

There are many reasons Mp is not clicking, one of the biggest reasons for veteran players dropping out is the lack of distinguished and dedicated balance between Skirmish and Captain mode. They have refused to split the classes and perks between the two modes and as a result neither mode is where it should be. As a tournament organizer for captain mode, what has prevented me from continuing to run events during the current update, is the 1.5 update itself. It didn't just "shake things up" in the meta, it absolutely destroyed Captain Mode as a game-mode in an instant. I can't make players play in an event for a game that I currently do not enjoy playing, and that they themselves do not enjoy playing in its current state. Once this captain mode balance patch finally drops things will pick up again, but they will surely drop off again if the devs continue to balance the modes at the same time rather than separately.

 

[Hans 77]

It's because there's no skins.

Kids today love skins.

 

[FearSpear]

Skirmish was geared towards these guys, but was not wholly accepted.

I suppose "not wholly" describes the competitive scene's view towards skirmish mode somewhat... A more apt description would be "Skirmish was geared towards these guys, but met with OVERWHELMING DISAPPROVAL."

 

[DainMorgot]

The best answer is provided by @OurGloriousLeader but I would like to add:

The development team did the very fatal mistake that many video game devs do nowdays, they go for 'realistic' approaches even though realism is never achieved in video games. They removed the 'fun' aspect of warband which was an extremely responsive combat system and replaced it with a slow, clunky combat system where some weapons feel good and others feel plain ****. The animation transitions are horrendous, the stance system is actual garbage and some classes are arcade-like when others feel too grounded. Multiplayer games have the most massive following and on-going following because of the challenge that present in themselves due to players play differently even with the same loadouts etc. In the words of Sodapoppin ''Bannerlord is ****ing boring, dude''. The game is too slow paced, oversaturated with the same classes and 0 customization. On top of that, the main competitive mode which is Skirmish is total ass. Siege has potential but it's currently overcrowded with non-class limits which allows volleys everywhere. On top of that, they gave archers free ammo with arrow buckets lmao. The current multiplayer dev team have no knowledge to fix this game.

 

[Kulgrinda Košmarjus]

From a perspective of a casual player with an odd 150 hours of BL, 50% of which is casual evening MP Skirmish:

Most of the time Skirmish is like 20 people queueing in EU, and its the same stacks of players every night. Combat is mostly fun, when we do get a close capabilities on both teams its feels great, however with 20 people its hard to balance, especially if people group up (have fun fighting in a team of randoms vs 4 RM guys).
A lot of the combat related stuff has been improved/fixed over the last few months, in my opinion it feels nice, dynamic and fast enough (I'm not saying it doesn't have issues, but it's getting there.). The learning curve is there, and even though I am coming from warband and have some hours in BL im generally a noob in Skirmish.
The reason Skirmish is not getting more players is because of the harsh environment you're thrown into. If mass TDM is just killstealing and luck, in skirmish random new players coming from random MP or SP are just rolled over. Getting 0/8 is a common view and a lot of the times players just quit. Skilled matchmaking is having issues due to player pool being too small I guess, and we're entering an eternal circle.
Also, on a sidenote there is no real goal in playing Skirmish. Gaining level? What of it? Aiming for the 750 win badge? pfff. Give me a 1000 loses badge, i'm already there. A lot of times it feels like work (especially if one is dying too often), there is absolutely no incentive (better class/better gear). I could fantasize about unlockable perk tree based on level for each class and making each class unique not only visually but combat wise too, but it's already a mess to balance everything, I don't think TW is capable of this.

 

[method man]

Jailbreak was active for years till it was banned by Taleworlds,

It was banned by TW? Why?

 

[[VK] Shoomama]

I would probably break down the multiplayer scene for MnB into 3 main groups. There is obviously crossover between each but roughly you can split them into:

-Large scale fights and events
These people primarily like the game for the spectacle of having massive multiplayer battles. 100v100 sieges and battles etc. You could compare this to games like Battlefield or the like where it's all about the technical and atmospheric achievement, moments where you're less concerned about winning and closer to roleplaying a big movie fight or something. Siege and Battle was the main modes from Warband for these guys, but Captain can supply some of this.

-TDM, DM, randomers
These people just want to hop in and do some casual, fun stuff for an hour or two. They don't care about balance or the like (although their enjoyment is impacted by it, so it matters) as long as they can have fun. The class system absolutely does not work for these guys.

-Competitive/Tryhards
This is the smallest but most hardcore of the scene. They genuinely enjoy the game at a competitive level, want to get better at the game, and are very opinionated on what needs to change. Skirmish was geared towards these guys, but was not wholly accepted.

So with this in mind let's think about what Bannerlord has done with MP and think about how it impacts each group.

Servers
No private servers or options for hosting means events are out of the question, and that the few game types around that do cater to the large events crowd are wholly reliant on matchmaking and servers with the rules set by admins. Further, these servers kick you out after a game, meaning sometimes long waits between games unless everyone immediately requeues or rejoins. However servers are hosted for TDM which broadly works. For the competitive guys, matchmaking mostly works ok but runs into balance issues in terms of stacks vs solos and new players, which has not been addressed quickly enough.

Gameplay
The game has been heavily criticised by the more experienced players for numerous balance and quality of life issues, while it's likely a minority compared to the actual multiplayer scene, they are loud and impact the general atmosphere. I also personally think they are correct (I've been one of them) and while devs have worked to address some of the complaints, they have done so extremely slowly. It's been over a year for some of them considering beta started pre summer of 2019.

All that said, I do think the game has been playable from a casual perspective for a while now, so this primarily impacts long term play and doesn't necessarily account for the quick drop off of player numbers. It mainly impacts the competitive/enthusiast scene and so the tournaments that could be happening (combined with the server issues above) are not as hype and populated as they could be.

Classes
Classes were introduced to make it easier for players to pick something and get into the game without being unarmoured noobs, and also for balance reasons across all game types. It works fairly well and has had a lot of thought put into it - unfortunately, it also hinders player's who want to take certain approaches or equipment, which doesn't feel satisfying. As a competitive player, I disliked being forced into one class with X equipment or another class with Y - the Warband system allowed for more flexibility. For casual players, it loses its charm quickly and people want to go naked/troll/just spawn with a greataxe, whatever. And for balancing, it's actually does as much harm as good, as relatively simple issues ended up needing large overhauls across the economic and class system, and other measures to try and fix things end up having unintended side effects.

The only thing this does work for is Captain mode, which overall seems to be the most well made game mode, which seems to have a bit of a dedicated following.

Conclusion

The result is one where: large event players have nowhere to go, TDMers have somewhere to go but don't really enjoy it long term, and competitive players are at best, split on whether the game is even good.

So how do we fix this? Well, for me I think the devs need to stop trying a one-size-fits-all approach. Many of these groups need completely different solutions. For immediate actions though:

1) Private servers or at least the ability to host large scale matches via TW dedicated servers. This should have been a priority for day 1 early access, instead the devs have actively blocked it. This will rather quickly repopulate the game and address a bunch of other problems.

2) Scrap the class system for modes where it clearly isn't working or enjoyed. That's TDM, duel, and arguably Battle if something like it ever comes. It cannot be that hard to import the equipment system from SP into a basic Infantry/Archer/Cavalry set up, and to have the MP Armoury switch to that, with classes kept for Captain and maybe Skirmish. I bet a few modders could (and will) do this in a month.

3) Another round of combat testing. The first was successful in fixing some basic issues, but changes from a few hours feedback didn't trickle into the main game for something like 3 months. I know it's not as simple as inputting what 20 random people say on Discord into your code, but it should be a little quicker. I think this comes down to the one-size-fits-all approach, but the balance concerns for PvP are totally different from the concerns of SP or Captain mode - this could allow a diversified approach where you more quickly adjust combat and other balance issues for solely PvP modes.

I fall under the large events crowd.. This is a great post.and really sums up the issues.

 

[Doctor_Noob]

It was banned by TW? Why?

The admins said alot of racial slurs (in admin chat) so taleworld brought down the hammer.

 

[Namakan]

The admins said alot of racial slurs (in admin chat) so taleworld brought down the hammer.

Actually, they stole others property (maps) and that's why the server got banned.
EDIT: both, actually https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...erver-monetisation-policy.376447/post-9031823

 

[Younes]

Actually, they stole others property (maps) and that's why the server got banned.
EDIT: both, actually https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...erver-monetisation-policy.376447/post-9031823

The post you linked, the original post from callum:

" Private servers are the lifeblood of Mount & Blade multiplayer. Server owners offer a service to the community which brings players together and allows them to enjoy the game in a way in which we as a company are simply unable to. Community events, tournaments, new game modes and custom maps are just some of the ways in which people benefit from the generosity, dedication and hard work of these valued community members, and without them, the multiplayer side of the game would be a lesser experience. "


PEPELAUGH

 

[Revverie]

Some people don't play it because of the class system anymore (98% of the players)

 

[Namakan]

The post you linked, the original post from callum:

" Private servers are the lifeblood of Mount & Blade multiplayer. Server owners offer a service to the community which brings players together and allows them to enjoy the game in a way in which we as a company are simply unable to. Community events, tournaments, new game modes and custom maps are just some of the ways in which people benefit from the generosity, dedication and hard work of these valued community members, and without them, the multiplayer side of the game would be a lesser experience. "


PEPELAUGH

yikes didnt even read OP

 

[Kazzan]

Servers
No private servers or options for hosting means events are out of the question, and that the few game types around that do cater to the large events crowd are wholly reliant on matchmaking and servers with the rules set by admins. Further, these servers kick you out after a game, meaning sometimes long waits between games unless everyone immediately requeues or rejoins. However servers are hosted for TDM which broadly works. For the competitive guys, matchmaking mostly works ok but runs into balance issues in terms of stacks vs solos and new players, which has not been addressed quickly enough.

A small but contributing factor that hinders longer play sessions is that it is a chore to rejoin servers after every game. Breaks you out of the action and lets you think about if you want to continue playing at all, rather than the game just loading the next map and telling you to pick a side/class. A small thing, but one I've noticed nonetheless.