41 Lords in prison and still no peace? patch 1.5.10

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When should a faction sue for peace, we got 41 Lords in prison and they still fighting us back.

In 1.5.10 the automatic ransom is now a choice to accept or decline and I declined all and put them in prison as I could see my allies were doing the same. But I never expected to fight for so long and they still not giving up. I don't mind but then again is there immersion in this? Would a faction not sue for peace and ransom its Lords, they have no chance of winning at this point.

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That's amazing! I would have worried about fast peace wasting all the prisoners. Is you faction at least taking some fiefs? I kept the khuzaits all poisoner for years as a solo clan in 1.5.10 :smile:

Is there still the bug/oversight where the enemy cannot propose peace to player's faction, meaning your faction has to propose that agreement? It might have been fixed but at one point that was an issue.
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
Your enemy already want to make peace. They are ready to pay you 2460 denars per day which is a really good amount. In current design all wars / peaces are voted only in one side. There is no double side voting. So amount you see (2460 denars) is the amount nearly all enemy clans are agreed on (they are ready to pay that amount daily). So voting will be on your side. Do your clans accept getting this tribute to end war or not? When you want to end war you can accept their tribute offer.
 
Your enemy already want to make peace. They are ready to pay you 2460 denars per day which is a really good amount. In current design all wars / peaces are voted only in one side. There is no double side voting. So amount you see (2460 denars) is the amount nearly all enemy clans are agreed on (they are ready to pay that amount daily). So voting will be on your side. Do your clans accept getting this tribute to end war or not? When you want to end war you can accept their tribute offer.

Am I interpreting this correctly that the AI kingdom who initiates the war is the one that must ask to end it? Clearly the player can suggest both ways. But is that how it works if the player doesn’t take an active role?
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
Am I interpreting this correctly that the AI kingdom who initiates the war is the one that must ask to end it? Clearly the player can suggest both ways. But is that how it works if the player doesn’t take an active role?

Both sides can do voting inside but there will be only one voting. Both sides have a different tribute amount shown to inside clans. For example in above sample Aserai see Western Empire can pay 2460 denars daily for peace and it seems 90% of Aserai clans are ok with this amount. If player change sides and be vassal of Western Empire at same moment he will probably see Aserai wants something like 3000 denars daily for peace. Any side can go voting inside and accept to take / pay these tributes then peace will happen (without asking again other kingdom). This is not a perfect system but currently things are working like this.
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
I think the OP is saying that given that the enemy "wants" to make peace, it is crazy that they are not sending offers to make peace to OP's kingdom.
I understand that as player you want to see enemy king to beg you (or open a dialog and want to make peace). This would be more satisfying for players and more immersive. However our system is working as described above. Even it is not same you can assume if they are ready to pay tribute to you they already send you an offer.
 
Both sides can do voting inside but there will be only one voting. Both sides have a different tribute amount shown to inside clans. For example in above sample Aserai see Western Empire can pay 2460 denars daily for peace and it seems 90% of Aserai clans are ok with this amount. If player change sides and be vassal of Western Empire at same moment he will probably see Aserai wants something like 3000 denars daily for peace. Any side can go voting inside and accept to take / pay these tributes then peace will happen (without asking again other kingdom). This is not a perfect system but currently things are working like this.
Thanks for clearing this up!
 
Both sides can do voting inside but there will be only one voting. Both sides have a different tribute amount shown to inside clans. For example in above sample Aserai see Western Empire can pay 2460 denars daily for peace and it seems 90% of Aserai clans are ok with this amount. If player change sides and be vassal of Western Empire at same moment he will probably see Aserai wants something like 3000 denars daily for peace. Any side can go voting inside and accept to take / pay these tributes then peace will happen (without asking again other kingdom). This is not a perfect system but currently things are working like this.

That makes sense! Yes, I’d thought the player probably had to take an active role in their kingdom with bringing the peace voting up for a formal vote. I imagine there might be a way to specify this somehow so people don’t get confused but I don’t have any good suggestions about it.
 

Jur

Sergeant Knight at Arms
I understand that as player you want to see enemy king to beg you (or open a dialog and want to make peace). This would be more satisfying for players and more immersive. However our system is working as described above. Even it is not same you can assume if they are ready to pay tribute to you they already send you an offer.
What is the reason that system isn't improved so that messenger brings your offer for peace or like you said ? It would be more imerssive and is not even one day of work.
 

Dreed89

Sergeant at Arms
What is the reason that system isn't improved so that messenger brings your offer for peace or like you said ? It would be more imerssive and is not even one day of work.
They announced they were working on scene notifications (short clips like executions) for more events. This peace proposal looks like it would suit to it too. @mexxico maybe suggest it to the team?

If those clips included factions leaders it would be a bonus for immersion.
 

WNxSpectre

Recruit
I have noticed that letting lords go after battle actually rewards you with a lot of relationship points. There may be something to winning peace via showing great honor and gaining their respect.
 

mexxico

Sergeant Knight
What is the reason that system isn't improved so that messenger brings your offer for peace or like you said ? It would be more imerssive and is not even one day of work.
Even messenger brings that offer you will see same tribute amount which you see at diplomacy tab. You will not see something different. So skipping these dialogs can be time consuming for player. Unfortunately without changing all system only adding a messenger will not make much sense.
 
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McDadden

Recruit
Thanks for pointing that out mexxico. Unfortunately this does change in the late game where factions that are completely beaten will still demand tribute if you want peace. Otherwise the few remaining lords will continue raiding villages and being a nuisance.
 
Thank you.

I was playing as mercenary for the Aserai at the time, I do not remember but I think it was not possible for me to start the vote.

I was thinking more of the lines of unconditional surrender for an enemy or plea for becoming a vassal might work too. If all Lords are captured there would be not need to capture all Towns and Castles, unless they had a militia that denied the surrender.

We were just at that point of no return for the WE, if we had continued only the other factions could have saved them by starting wars against us.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
I still think this mechanics is flawed, and kind of leads to snowballing on its own.

The only time we go for peace is when a 2nd faction attacks us, even then if we are "strong" they dont want peace.

Which leads to the endless wars for factions, as there is no peace-duration when you broker a peacetreaty, day after peace have happend - war can be declared by the same(this is at best a really bad design decision imo, apperantly you or the ones in charge disagree) Minimum of 30 days of peace or 100.
This on its own could "slow down" wars aswell, as they cant attack as much due to the peace treaties.

But by all means go with it if that is how you enjoy and the most of the players enjoy the game, I'll just mod it later of use one of the mods that offer such solutions already.
A mod that offers this and other feature have been dloaded 158k times on Nexus, so I feel I may not be totally alone in wanting something like this.

The constant war with very little downtime is just "too much".
There should be more considerations into what makes them want peace.
*Rebellion risk
*looted villages
*lords imprisoned

2k pr day is nothing. Thus the lords dont want to agree to that sum.
1 town alone generate more than 2k, so why should we want peace from them for 2k, when we can conquer 4 of their cities, thus the AI choose war as long as they see it possible.
When the 2nd faction attacks us, they will go for peace, as they are smart enough to understand that they may loose 1-2 cities to the other faction if they dont go for the option of peace.
 

Zorion_no

Regular
@Zorion_no check out this post by mex in the snowballing thread. If he can get that approved its definitely a step in the right direction.
Could be.

Just bit annoyed with the no peace once you hit a threshold more or less(for me it was even earlier now in 1.6 than in the previous versions, there it would typically be at about 600-800 days, now I hit it at 400).

And that there cant be peace for peace sake is my issue, that there have to be that 2nd faction declareing war on the one you are in.
Maybe your solution fix this (I hope so).


I know that its most likely alot to do with my "playstyle" where I will alwsy be in the sieges, have my small small army, and always being in the thick of stuff and thus makeing progress all the time.
And that this most likely fuel the desire for the kingdome to conquer(thus I think it would be "better" that if wars last "too long" or there is to much war, there should be some mechanics in play to counter it like a warfatigue that works more actively.
Think Russian revolution, where the ppl where fed up with the Tsar, endless taxing/serfdom wars and what not(although its in a more modern setting, there's been plenty of peasent revolts all over(which typically dont end well for the peasents)).

But something to stop the chain-wars from going on constant.

Kind of like if I dont play as I do, the kingdome I'm in will be eaten by the other kingdomes, and thus creating a sort of a snowball situation out of it aswell. While they may leave us for abit, they will then go eat another up, then another, you get the idea?

I think part of the issue is that recruiting is "too fast" why do it replenish daily, and not weekly - makeing losses in battle "matter" instead of the endless spam of recruit armies that comes to raid and end up in prison until they escape rince & repeat.
 
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