2nd Balance Patch: design insights + full changelog

[flashn00b]

Anyone feel that the Aserai Axe is lagging behind compared to other one-handed weapons? I feel like this is most likely an oversight since the weapon was originally a "second weapon" perk that was independent from the weapons you can pick for the Tribal Warrior's Perk 1. (i.e: switch to the axe to destroy a shield before switching back to your Perk 1 weapon)

It might be worth it to bring the axe's swinging speed to the low 90s rather than the mid-80s

 

[[OSOD] Imperator]

Anyone feel that the Aserai Axe is lagging behind compared to other one-handed weapons? I feel like this is most likely an oversight since the weapon was originally a "second weapon" perk that was independent from the weapons you can pick for the Tribal Warrior's Perk 1. (i.e: switch to the axe to destroy a shield before switching back to your Perk 1 weapon)

It might be worth it to bring the axe's swinging speed to the low 90s rather than the mid-80s

Absolutey, it has Varyag levels of speed for not even close to Varyag level of damage. Def should be boosted just like how the Aserai mace was boosted from 82 to 88 speed.

 

[Firunien]

Absolutey, it has Varyag levels of speed for not even close to Varyag level of damage. Def should be boosted just like how the Aserai mace was boosted from 82 to 88 speed.

Keep in mind that Tribal costs way less, they are worse in every regard and rightfully so

 

[flashn00b]

Keep in mind that Tribal costs way less, they are worse in every regard and rightfully so

Doesn't excuse the fact that the Aserai Axe is a straight downgrade from the Kaskara, since its stats are still based on earlier versions of Bannerlord where its wielded alongside your sword rather than outright replacing it.

 

[Wardrobe_Fuat]

When will you nerf Vlandia? They run too fast, they have best units in all classes.

 

[Horked]

they have best units in all classes.

One of the worst T4 infantry: Weak shield with poor coverage, high price
One of (THE?) weakest T1
Not sure what the arbalest unit is for (sub-sharpshooter)

As a commander Id pick Vlandia over any other army because I think its the best allround army. Second choice Sturgia.

As an infantry player Ill pick Khuzait or Aserai.

 

[Wardrobe_Fuat]

You find me even here ffs dude

Vlandians can make so fast money thanks to their fast, cheap and looter perked peasant units. Besides you are completely ignoring the overall run speed of vlandians, even their heavy infantry run faster than all other factions. Speed is a huge deal in siege mode.
Also their crossbow units are oneshotting people left and right, while reloading in the safety of barriers.
Furthermore, their heavy cavalry is very decent with fast horse, long lance and heavy armour.

One of the worst T4 infantry: Weak shield with poor coverage, high price
One of (THE?) weakest T1
Not sure what the arbalest unit is for (sub-sharpshooter)

As a commander Id pick Vlandia over any other army because I think its the best allround army. Second choice Sturgia.

As an infantry player Ill pick Khuzait or Aserai.

 

[Horked]

Vlandia have weak infantry. Strong cav and range makes up for it. But they dont have any skirmish units and their shocks is average, maybe even less than that.

Im not sure you can back up your claims about running speed. Personally I dont feel what you descripe. I still claim that they run just as fast as Aserai t1, Khuzait t2 and Empire t4. Im not sure if Sturgia and Battan infantry is as fast - I would say no because they have good skirmish units. I feel factions with good skirmish units have a SLIGHTLY slower infantry run speed to make up for the good throwing. Empire t4 may be a little bit slower than Aserai and Khuzait but still faster than Sturgia and Battan. Sturgia and Batt shock troops still run like the wind.

FYI as a side note, units run faster with weapons holstered and shield on the back, max run speed when naked.

Edit: Dont forget, 1h weapons is also balanced the same way. Typically, high damage weapons are slow while low damage weapons are fast. The speed is determined by weight and length. The factions 1h weapon stats are all slightly different.

Think of all the gear and unit stats of a faction as one big pool. All of the factions has the same amount in the pool, its just divided differently between things like weapon/shield weight, weapon/shield speed, weapon length, shield size, weapon damage types, shield resists, armor weight, armor amount, armor resistance vs the 3 damage types, unit speeds, and then theres all the physics, my head is spinning

 

[WMorton]

I returned to this game after 2-3 weeks of not play and omg its in a terrible state. I will do my best not to swear but I am beyond pissed off rn. East NA servers are TERRIBLE right now, the net code must be broken because I have never seen the servers crash so much, and even more so they are incredibly laggy. Why didn't you just add Central US servers instead of ****ing over the entire NA community by cutting it in half? I know that specific question has been asked before but knowing TWs it probably was ignored.

Pikes are another issue, it has become the meta that even though a person with a 9-10 foot pike is stabbing at me from 1 foot away, they still can manage to 2 shot me while im glancing away with a damn voulge. I am going to stop this entry here because I only feel like cursing from here on out, so please get your **** together TWs.

 

[Krisee]

Edit: Dont forget, 1h weapons is also balanced the same way. Typically, high damage weapons are slow while low damage weapons are fast. The speed is determined by weight and length. The factions 1h weapon stats are all slightly different.

I guess you haven't been one hit by a khuzait mace for your full life while being heavy armored.

 

[flashn00b]

A copy-paste from the Brigand thread since no one reads class balance threads:

I don't think TaleWorlds understands why the throwing axe is a popular pick for Brigands. Not because it's so good of a throwing weapon that it needs the accuracy nerf to rein in its usage. Rather, the Brigand's proper melee weapons are so laughably bad that the meta loadout is Improved Armor/Throwing Axes, but you drop the woodsplitter axe and press X with the throwing axes to have a better melee weapon than both the Sturgian Shortsword and Woodsplitter Axe.

IMO, i think these changes should be in order:
Sturgian Throwing Axe: Increase Quiver size by 2, Accuracy spread reduced 50%
It won't be accurate enough to headshot anyone, but it should still be good for a mid-ranged body or leg hit. The extra 2 throwing axes should put it on par with the Rapid Throws perk of other skirmishers (or failing that, you'll at least have 4 axes to throw and one to melee with)

Woodsplitter Axe replaced with Sturgian Shortsword:
Shortsword would still be worse than throwing axe melee, but should at least be JUST enough for the Brigand to defend himself if he picked the javelins perk

Sturgian Shortsword replaced with Raider Axe:
With the Sturgian Shortsword being moved to Improved Armor/Better Shield, this should allow the Brigand to actually have a usable melee weapon as a perk weapon, though you'll have the downside of having only an 80 health shield and 10 armor.

Ash Throwing Spear supplemented with Vlandian Throwing Axes (non-captain modes):
Yep, i'm talking about those throwing axes that deal less damage in melee than a thrown rock. The ones that could only do headshot damage numbers at the mid to high 50s before they got removed entirely. This would still make the throwing spear perk the worst option for ranged damage, but should be enough when fighting most peasant units

Most importantly though, i feel like they should stop trying to nerf the throwing axes when it's the only melee viable weapon for the Brigand.

 

[XDaron]

AI Brigand units are struggling to throw axes, they refuse to throw it until they get very close (and at that point they just switch to melee), it's probably related to how AI units handles the inaccuracy.

 

[flashn00b]

AI Brigand units are struggling to throw axes, they refuse to throw it until they get very close (and at that point they just switch to melee), it's probably related to how AI units handles the inaccuracy.

IMO, the throwing axes shouldn't be as inaccurate as they are. To quote myself in an earlier post...

I don't think TaleWorlds understands why the throwing axe is a popular pick for Brigands. Not because it's so good of a throwing weapon that it needs the accuracy nerf to rein in its usage. Rather, the Brigand's proper melee weapons are so laughably bad that the meta loadout is Improved Armor/Throwing Axes, but you drop the woodsplitter axe and press X with the throwing axes to have a better melee weapon than both the Sturgian Shortsword and Woodsplitter Axe.

 

[WMorton]

I think that throwing spears desperately need a buff. The fact that when thrown they usually do less damage than a Strong Javelin is ridiculous since we can't pick them up again once they are stuck in a shield or a player. either make it so we can pick them up again or boost their damage to make their one time use actually worth it.

 

[flashn00b]

I think that throwing spears desperately need a buff. The fact that when thrown they usually do less damage than a Strong Javelin is ridiculous since we can't pick them up again once they are stuck in a shield or a player. either make it so we can pick them up again or boost their damage to make their one time use actually worth it.

Personally, I think making throwing spears recoverable is the best course of action since the Pila's ranged attack is the recruit's primary method of fighting cavalry.

 

[Zarthas]

Personally, I think making throwing spears recoverable is the best course of action since the Pila's ranged attack is the recruit's primary method of fighting cavalry.

I'm a bit torn on this issue.

Flavor-wise, I find it interesting that we finally have actual-Pilum esque mechanics.
Functionally they are far too weak to justify this.
It was a mistake to implement both the ultra nerfs (down to almost a third of its original damage), breaking mechanic, and barring throwing from horseback simultaneously, as we now only know that they are not a useful weapon at all when you do all of these, which anyone could have told you to start with.

We gained no useful information from rolling out the changes together, and functionally lost an entire weapon category from the game.

I would love a universe in which the Pilum is a bit more dangerous, does extra damage to shields, and breaks on impact as it does now. If this is too good for Recruits in most game modes that is an understandable argument, and we now live in a Bannerlord that has separate perks for separate modes. Put a spear on Recruits and move Pila back to Legions, or restrict Pilum on Recruits to captain. Hell, give Recruits a slightly inferior Short Pilum and a full Pilum to Legions even.

I have taken the removal of Pila from Legionnaires very personally, as the Spear Infantry have retained an identical or even slightly superior throwing spear for no apparent reason while my Legions were robbed of theirs for "balance".

Take all this with a grain of salt, as the captain mode Throwing-Spear Clan Warrior was peak Bannerlord game design in my mind (even though the Ash Throwing Spear was absurdly overpowered and needed some nerfs). It was an amazing tactical choice to have the capability to nuke an incoming Shock charge as light infantry but then be vulnerable to horses, archers, or repeated attacks from almost anyone and be relegated to a support role for the rest of the match.

 

[Goyyyio]

@NIN3
Happy New Year, I sincerely wish you all the best on a personal level .
---

On the professional side:
I was wondering if apart from all the balance stuff you mentioned, is on "Taleworlds meeting table" the problem of the swing arcs which OGL in particular and others have been talking about since the alpha/beta closed period. Are you guys going to overhaul them definitively and therefore modify the animations (extrapolable to SP as well) or is it definitely something you don't contemplate at this stage of the game?

Thanks in advance.

I love how Terco is still trying after years. You are the entire dream team Terco

 

[Terco_Viejo]

I love how Terco is still trying after years. You are the entire dream team Terco

There are many people like me who somehow or other feel a sense of sadness at the thought that at the end of EA's journey, Bannerlord will become "a game that had a lot of potential" ? ? .

 

[aLiaXXXanger]

Waiting for further MP optimization?

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?threads/beta-patch-notes-e1-7-2.450653/post-9792202

 

[flashn00b]

I still think that the Imperial Recruit should get the Reinforcements perk in Skirmish/Siege/TDM to make up for how wimpy he is for a 100 cost unit