2h units are useless unless archers get nerfed

[Maximum997]

Pendor was a little over the top.

But it is funny. Main reason why i love it. And fun is main focus of any game.

 

[Soulcharger]

So some quick damage checking here with no archery skill at all with fresh guy in regular arena, takes on average 3 direct hits to chest, or 1 head 1 chest/limb to kill. With 41 skill version of same guy 2.4-2.6 ish chest shots to kill as you can get what appears to be a critical hit that is double damage without being a head shot. With 41 skill head shot usually results in death not always. There are also some combatants the defy both those sets of results that took 6 arrows to the chest to kill absorbing large amounts of damage. I am starting to think that there is a hidden damage reduction stat as this inconsistancy happens in both arena and in normal campaign.

In either case the AI using bows only score kills against targets distracted, or with no shield.

Edit i did this test max difficulty settings in Beta with ai difficulty set to hardest. On easier modes the ai misses alot more.
Edit 2: Also this is gainst guys in armor that is what i am guessing on appearnce is about 4-8 armour count.

 

[Roaring Mouse]

But it is funny. Main reason why i love it. And fun is main focus of any game.

People have fun differently. That's why everyone argues.


I eventually enjoyed Pendor quite a bit at the end of my Warband run. I'm hoping for more balance eventually but I'm loving everything about Bannerlord so far. Reminds me of M&B .8 which is when I started. I'm excited about the next 15 years with one game.

 

[Soulcharger]

if you idea of fun is killing everything with 2h and having no weakness use cheat menu dummy armor and crt h

 

[Soulcharger]

Otherwise from these simple tests archery is perfectly fine as it is.

Want to talk bs its these throws, dam they can be crazy accurate, or the worst arm in the world with no middle ground.

 

[BattanianDruid]

(if anyone has seen either the armor or yeow longbow than please post it).

I've never seen the armor before but I have seen the yew longbow. It appears very rarely in Battanian cities for purchase and is an upgrade from a normal longbow, though I do not remember by how much. I had a heavy recurve bow at the time and was relying on horse archery in the field so I wasn't looking at longbow stats very hard.

 

[Neat]

The bandits in the hideouts used to use Yew longbows until they got downgraded.

 

[Soulcharger]

Best bow i found in game cost me like 200k or somthing. Think it was Noble Long Bow, 92 damage, and then with arrows +3 damage on a archer with 135-150 ish skill I could 1 shot most infantry in chest shots, heavier infantry though still would survive point blank shots unless to the head.4

 

[High chief Kieran]

I've never seen the armor before but I have seen the yew longbow.

Best bow i found in game cost me like 200k or somthing. Think it was Noble Long Bow, 92 damage, and then with arrows +3 damage on a archer with 135-150 ish skill I could 1 shot most infantry in chest shots, heavier infantry though still would survive point blank shots unless to the head.4

thanks, i will keep an eye out for them, must just have been bad luck that i did not find them yet.

 

[Soulcharger]

I did not find one until about 3 years in.

 

[BattanianDruid]

Best bow i found in game cost me like 200k or somthing. Think it was Noble Long Bow, 92 damage, and then with arrows +3 damage on a archer with 135-150 ish skill I could 1 shot most infantry in chest shots, heavier infantry though still would survive point blank shots unless to the head.4

What is your archery skill at? I have the noble bow, which is the shortbow equivalent to the noble longbow. Slightly less damage but can be used from a horse.

It still sometimes takes me 3-4 shots to kill armored targets with body blows. One archer during a siege actually took six shots before going down.

The 290,000 price tag on the thing feels like a complete waste. My 8,000 denar recurve bow was almost as effective. But I only have a little over 100 archer right now, so maybe it scales better with 300+ archery.

 

[Soulcharger]

my archery was i think 120-160 range not sure when i got the long bow but i was always foot archer not mounted, with 3 stacks of arrows no melee weapon. at the time I was fighting horse boys and desert guys so good chance the results would be much different on the Val, or the Stur, or empire.

 

[Nikomakkos]

When I went from Warband Native to Pendor I quickly learned how powerful ranged units were in that mod compared to Native. I had been used to prefer giving my companions two handed weapons but in PoP that changed and I always gave them one hander with shield (PoP also happened to have better one handed weapons).

So I'm not sure what the point about Pendor was. In Native Warband it was viable to go without a shield but far less so Pendor. There I felt you had to have one and more so than in Bannerlord now in my experience but I'm not sure. But armor in Bannerlord seems to be less powerful than it was in Warband, which makes sense when you consider that it takes place in an earlier century without plate armor. Although I would like the feeling of becoming too powerful for the rabble to touch me, like I experienced in Warband.

 

[Soulcharger]

Also had alot heavier sets of armor in native then we do now so its understandable that you could make do without a shield. In native if you make a fresh char then give him best armor count gear in game he could hardly walk. In this game heaviest set reduces you to a slow jog.

 

[Maximum997]

So I'm not sure what the point about Pendor was. In Native Warband it was viable to go without a shield but far less so Pendor.

Dodging shots in warband is very easy. In PoP you need shield only against Noldors. But they supossed to be OP. For example you should spend the most useful and expensive thing in the game just to hire 3 of them.
Bakkus crossbows are painful too, but it is almost all infantry faction.

 

[Soulcharger]

This thread really has gone on too long lol.

 

[eddiemccandless]

God no, the supposed difficulty if Pedor was because of inflated stats. I remember having to repeatedly couch a chieftain to best him in early game. Pendor was a little over the top. I had fun with it later, but it always had an over the top crazy stupid feel to me.

Honestly, hp inflation is a problem that Bannerlord has, not Pendor. An headshot should kill a looter instantly. In Pendor the inflated stats as you say were only a thing for high level units. It is a very balanced mod overall (slightly skewed towards ranged but what was a Warband thing, unless you went all Brythenwalda on it).

 

[Morbo513]

When I went from Warband Native to Pendor I quickly learned how powerful ranged units were in that mod compared to Native.

PoP has some incredibly powerful ranged units but even they don't hold a candle to those in Bannerlord.

Nobody wants their units to be invulnerable to ranged, but its balance is almost as far the other way. When you have enough archers and some token fodder cav and inf to protect/distract from them, your archers might as well be invulnerable too.

The biggest issue to me isn't even the damage its self, but their baseline accuracy. Even basic archers can hit their targets consistently enough to heavily outweigh the "value" of higher-tier melee and especially 2h troops. In Warband and most of its mods that I've played, there was enough error present in their aiming that you either had to have extreme volume or a decent number of elite archers for them to make a significant difference in battles.

 

[FBohler]

A simple fix is when you order infantry to form a shield wall, give priority on the front row to people who actually have a shield, instead of mixing shield infantry with unshielded ones.

Very interesting idea.

 

[Soulcharger]

Again I play on hardest settings I am not seeing this Accuracy or damage you guys are claiming. I am seeing archers fire alot of arrows with few landing their mark. Once with in throwing range ya then they hit reliably, or close to. The problem is not the archer its your infantry. Dropping their shield blocks and running at enemy archers is poor AI scripting. If your infantray has throwing weapons, disable them or watch them get gunned down. As I use alot of infantry and usualy archers are less than 30% of my force once i am over the 100 threshold, I can tell you that tier 3+ troops with shields can sit all day, shield wall, and maybe lose 2-3 guys before they run out of arrows. But again, controling your troops is the hard part because you also need to make sure they are set to face direction not enemy.