(268) Unit equipment requests
- 主题发起人 ealabor
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jord932003
Banned
Eumolpus 说:
Whats the big deal with the style of thrusting.
A thrust is a thrust........haha thrust hehehe!
Merlkir
Xenophon 说:
it is.
jord932003
Banned
Xenophon 说:
Dude you can't just demand something if you think it is convienent for you.
Gotta think about what other people want as well.
Hey im not saying they wont put it in, they might, but they also might not.
jord932003
Banned
Xenophon 说:
Oh I sure no-one gonna get angry at you for that.
Trust me dude, I also tried to get the Hegemony team to chuck in some new stuff, like Black Praetorian segementa, but after about a week....
I got my ass handed to me on a big shiny plate.
One thing about making suggestions is to first think of something, like you have, and ask people, like me for example if you would like to see your ideas in the game, then if that went we'll you go to the team and see if they will like it, I thought about your idea and it wouldn't be to bad to see your suggestion in the mod.
Let's see what the team says.
Somairle
Knight
May have missed a previous suggestion. What about framae for Germans? Not remotely complex; a framae is a fire-hardened all-wood javelin, sharpened on both ends. Used in melee and at range. Very famous among the proto-Germans, since they were extremely light of iron (having nearly no native made armor and using their iron reserves to make weapons for the wealthy, or to imitate Celtic swords and helmets for the very wealthy). Framae would be light, plentiful, and be able to be thrown a good distance with great speed, but wouldn't be exceedingly powerful in terms of damage (though fire-hardened wood is tougher than one might expect, so not 'weak', perse). Similar javelins were also used by Lusitanian tribes in Iberia, and some Caledonian and Irish tribes. In that same vein, I'd ask for a removal of 'German Mail'; Germanic tribes of the period, even if they could make it, were imitating Celtic designs, and would be using inferior local iron, though imitations seem less likely than just importing Celtic armor. In 268 BC, they wouldn't have much of a framework available for the crafting much mail locally. Some early Germanic swords would be great though, give Germanics a bit more of a unique look.
Again in that same stream of thought, mail wasn't proliferated so much among Celts outside of the upper bodies, and even then, there was still some reliance on scale (both iron and bronze), as well as chest discs and cuirass (Celtic cuirass was not realistically articulated like Hellenic or Roman cuirass though). Some variety among Celts in terms of armor would be kind of nice. There are also a lot of nifty swords and such that could be used, or Rhaetian axes and pila (Etruscan pila, technically).
Could Celtic helmets be accompanied with a neck torc? And, just, neck torcs alone (offering no protection, but a good asthetic on Celtic soldiers). They'd also be worn by higher ranking Germans who appear to have imitated Celts a lot of the time in their dress. Gold, silver, iron, or copper torcs would be nice. They wouldn't be worn by the levies, but practically all other Celtic soldiers would have a torc.
Slings, if ever they can be made. Would be nice to have Celts with slings; they certainly used them far more than bows (though some Celtic cultures, or related near-Celtic cultures, did use bows more than most other tribes, like Rhaetians, who had their own type of longbow).
Oh, and on a specific unit, Gaesatai. The name means 'spearman', supposedly because they were so excellent with their javelins or pila (Etruscan pila were used by Celts in the Alps), yet, the unit has no javelins. They really, really should have javelins. But, so should most Celtic soldiers. Just, Gaesatai, it's actually in the name.
Of Etruscan pila; they were essentially identical to the Iberian soliferum. It's more or less just a long, thin rod of metal with a head at the end. Would be nice to see, considering it'd help note that Roman pila weren't unique (their advancement there was the addition of wood weight; the piercing power of the weapon was not remotely unique and pila were used by various Italic people over time; Etruscans, Ligurians, Italic/Alpine Celts, etc.).
Again in that same stream of thought, mail wasn't proliferated so much among Celts outside of the upper bodies, and even then, there was still some reliance on scale (both iron and bronze), as well as chest discs and cuirass (Celtic cuirass was not realistically articulated like Hellenic or Roman cuirass though). Some variety among Celts in terms of armor would be kind of nice. There are also a lot of nifty swords and such that could be used, or Rhaetian axes and pila (Etruscan pila, technically).
Could Celtic helmets be accompanied with a neck torc? And, just, neck torcs alone (offering no protection, but a good asthetic on Celtic soldiers). They'd also be worn by higher ranking Germans who appear to have imitated Celts a lot of the time in their dress. Gold, silver, iron, or copper torcs would be nice. They wouldn't be worn by the levies, but practically all other Celtic soldiers would have a torc.
Slings, if ever they can be made. Would be nice to have Celts with slings; they certainly used them far more than bows (though some Celtic cultures, or related near-Celtic cultures, did use bows more than most other tribes, like Rhaetians, who had their own type of longbow).
Oh, and on a specific unit, Gaesatai. The name means 'spearman', supposedly because they were so excellent with their javelins or pila (Etruscan pila were used by Celts in the Alps), yet, the unit has no javelins. They really, really should have javelins. But, so should most Celtic soldiers. Just, Gaesatai, it's actually in the name.
Of Etruscan pila; they were essentially identical to the Iberian soliferum. It's more or less just a long, thin rod of metal with a head at the end. Would be nice to see, considering it'd help note that Roman pila weren't unique (their advancement there was the addition of wood weight; the piercing power of the weapon was not remotely unique and pila were used by various Italic people over time; Etruscans, Ligurians, Italic/Alpine Celts, etc.).
Merlkir
A question: how many javelins would a soldier carry? Romans have two and it seems kinda ridiculous to me that most of the javelinmen carry 9 or 11 or so. That seems like too much to me. Some light darts, I could understand, but heavier javelins, I could imagine maybe 3... (not to mention how it pisses me off to fight the gauls and germans with my macedonians..- pincushions )
)Somairle
Knight
Minding that many professional soldiers in certain societies had attendants to bring them more, 10+ is quite possible, though not all at once. However, I doubt a system is in place to allow you to have attendants bring your soldiers more javelins, so I'd consider it an abstraction.
Spongly
Knight
Somairle 说:
Frameae are spears with short, narrow iron heads that can be thrown or wielded in close combat, according to Tacitus, rather than fire hardened spears. Bone headed spears were probably used, since we've found bone spearheads mixed with iron ones. I suspect that the Germanic lack of iron is more of a roman trope to emphasise their primitive nature than gospel truth.
Also, one of Europe's oldest finds of chain mail comes from Hjortspring in Denmark, where 10-20 mail shirts were found with enough gear for a warband of roughly 60 or so warriors along with their "war canoe" - the implication being that almost one man in six on that crew had mail. Not a huge number by any means, but a significant minority. Now these are quite possibly imports from Celtic territories, but at the moment the only difference between the "Celtic" and "Germanic" mail in the game is the colour of the tunic underneath.
Somairle
Knight
Spongly 说:
The Hjortspring find is from a period (between 400 and 300 BC) when much of the territory of Germania was still Celtic (and much still was in 268 BC), and importing to the region would be easy; imports seem most likely for mail, not local make (so, Germanic mail remains, still, a dicey concept at best); I don't complain that upper ranking Germans might have mail, but 'Germanic' mail seems a bit of a reach considering they were most likely importing mail rather than making it. Again, considering that Germania did not have large iron reserves, nor developed infrastructure, both of which Celts did possess. Also, Germanic mail has a higher torso armor rating in 1.960, not just a different color. I just checked it to make sure I was not mistaken. Is it an error or intended? Or perhaps a bug or something? I dunno, I know nothing about computers properly.
On framae, yes, I misspoke, I didn't mean framae. I can't seem to remember the name of the fire-hardened wood javelin. The name escapes me, but I'm sure I've heard the name before. In any event, such weapons were used by Iberians and by Germans and by Caledonians and by some Irish tribes.
i'm a little puzzled by sarmatian and scyth horsemen only using spears and axes in melee. we need sarmatian swords, after all those swords (or better say their superiority in quality and length) were one of the main reason of scythians' downfall. i only saw a few scythian axes and never saw a sarmatian one while every museum here is PILED with their swords. here are a few of them specifically from III-II b.c.
btw, most of them have a ring on their hilt. probably serving for some religious purposes?
and another pic of sarmatian horsemen (nevermind the legionary guy) made by a war historian M. Gorelik, who's surprisingly talented in drawing.
btw, most of them have a ring on their hilt. probably serving for some religious purposes?
and another pic of sarmatian horsemen (nevermind the legionary guy) made by a war historian M. Gorelik, who's surprisingly talented in drawing.
Merlkir
there is a scythian sword ingame, but I think the scythians don't use it
And I posted some ringhilt swords a while back, but I guess nobody got to modeling them yet..
And I posted some ringhilt swords a while back, but I guess nobody got to modeling them yet..
Merlkir 说:A question: how many javelins would a soldier carry? Romans have two and it seems kinda ridiculous to me that most of the javelinmen carry 9 or 11 or so. That seems like too much to me. Some light darts, I could understand, but heavier javelins, I could imagine maybe 3... (not to mention how it pisses me off to fight the gauls and germans with my macedonians..- pincushions
I think around 3 or 4 seems sensible, 1 held in the throwing hand, up to 3 held in the off/shield hand.
I know this probably never existed, and that chances are nobody will make it, but it would be cool to have a berzerker helmet like the one used by centurions now, only a bear instead of a wolf, and have part of the skin on the back longer, so it makes a kind of small ragged cape like thing. like the things the Berzerkers wear in Rome total War. or the ulfsark in Age of Mythology.
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