2016 U.S. Presidential Elections: The Circus Is In Full Swing

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Weaver

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Sure. Sounds like an adequate reaction to my post. Showing distaste with the current state of the media and disagreement with the ideology that's being pushed does sound pretty much like I want to put a burqua on every lady and desecrate some holy sites.
Also, there is no nuance in disagreement with left authoritarianism, alarmism and populism and disagreement with basic liberal ideas.
I can conclude, that if I criticize a certain agenda, I'm basically a religious extremist. Which is arguably better than nazi so I'll take it. :smile:
 
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It's not your opinion, it's the reaction. I hate american TV and film, most of it is a clumsy amalgam of liberalism to justify boring unfunny comedy / drama etc, but this has been the case for almost 100 years. Talking about "Marxist propaganda being forced on the population" or "left authoritarianism tightening its grip on society", especially now when mass media is more heterogeneous than ever, is just hysterical.

If you read some of Qutb's writings on the hypocrisy of American liberalism you might actually agree with him. I've spoken to quite a few islamic extremists (i.e. guys openly saying bin laden was a martyr) and they were saying more or less the exact same stuff as you about leftist extremism and western propaganda being forced on the population. They were probably whiter than you, too.
 

Weaver

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Jacob, that's just a disingenuous parallel. If I read some writings of any author with two braincells on the hypocrisy of American liberalism, including commies, libertarians and even other liberals, I'm sure I'd agree with some of their points and disagree with others. What does it have to do with anything? You just think it's smart to compare me to a zealot for some reason.
 
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Jacob, that's just a disingenuous parallel. If I read some writings of any author with two braincells on the hypocrisy of American liberalism, including commies, libertarians and even other liberals, I'm sure I'd agree with some of their points and disagree with others.
Yes, I agree, but as I said it's the not the opinion on its own, it's the weird quasi orientalist reaction to something that hardly anyone in the west (or anywhere outside of eastern europe and the middle east) cares about. Reading your initial post really reminded me of all the conversations I've had with islamists. If you think that means I'm calling you an islamist, then مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱللَّٰهِ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّٰهُ
 

Cute Anime Girl

Sure. Sounds like an adequate reaction to my post. Showing distaste with the current state of the media and disagreement with the ideology that's being pushed does sound pretty much like I want to put a burqua on every lady and desecrate some holy sites.
Also, there is no nuance in disagreement with left authoritarianism, alarmism and populism and disagreement with basic liberal ideas.
I can conclude, that if I criticize a certain agenda, I'm basically a religious extremist. Which is arguably better than nazi so I'll take it. :smile:
If you can charachterize leftist thought in monolithic terms, then people are justified to describe the reactions to it in similarly broad terms. If you don't provide examples of illiberal 'centralised' leftism and how salient the threat is, then it's just gonna sound as conspiratorial and lazy as every Qanon, white genocide spiel about how people feel like they're being displaced or that Democrats are evil. Jacob is making fun of your rationale. People just talk past, misunderstand, and misread each other when you combine humor and politics. But it can also be used to alleviate the mood.

Like, if I'm 100% real, every person that talks about society in abstract is usually full of it and just doesn't want to do research. We laugh at normies for talking about taxes and voting, but the truth is that those are exactly the conversations we should be having; and these people are better informed than us, because any meaningful conversation is not going to be had by talking about how you feel about the vacuum that is western marxism.

Are we gonna talk about minorities? Cool! Let's just talk about minorities then. Do you feel like it's inappropriate to give a special status to some minority? Well, let's talk about that then. Do you feel restricted as to your speech? Well, how come? What are the mainstream practices? Hmm maybe you're right. Maybe your negative experience can inform us of bad trends and practices. Are they justified still in light of the alternatives? What can we do to internalise the problem as highlighted by your insight?

These are the conversations people are just too lazy to talk about, because talking about the inherent ills of society makes you feel and sound cool and like a galaxy brain that is just so much more aware of society and the broader picture than all these sheeple, and it doesn't even require you to do research!

You can still talk about culture (and as someone that studied a subject on it, I can tell ya that cultivating a healthy, integrity-oriented culture can be more effective than any hard laws given a certain scope/environment (but people disagree on what integrity should mean)). Probably just needs to be a conversation on the merits if you want it be meaningful. But some people just don't have the time and mental will and fortitude to do a bit of reading, which is a problem. I do still think that people should have some responsibility to at least formulate the specific problem that bothers them instead of defaulting to 'the global Jews/Marxists/neoliberals are at it again'.

 
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Weaver

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Yes, I agree, but as I said it's the not the opinion on its own, it's the weird quasi orientalist reaction to something that hardly anyone in the west (or anywhere outside of eastern europe and the middle east) cares about. Reading your initial post really reminded me of all the conversations I've had with islamists. If you think that means I'm calling you an islamist, then مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ ٱللَّٰهِ لَا إِلَٰهَ إِلَّا ٱللَّٰهُ
Quasi orientalist reaction? What does it even mean?
Also, where lies the value to the conversation in anecdotally comparing me to islamists anyway?
 

Anarion

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If there's any ideology that controls the state that would be liberalism, and if you take a cursory look at which parties are in government across the West and most of the world in general right now you'll find center right and center left parties almost universally in power, with a few exceptions, some of which are of course worrying.

What really controls the state though is simply capital. Wealthy people and corporations fund politicians and parties, and of course they get the kind of policies they want at a very reasonable price, considering the returns. This is most transparent in the US. No matter who wins this election, this will continue. It's a fundamental problem of capitalist democracy. With Bernie Sanders you had an attempt to counteract this with a grassroots movement, millions of dollars raised. It still wasn't enough and the piddling reforms that Sanders proposed caused the wealthy party donors to freak the **** out. In fact getting some more money in people's hands would have been a net benefit for them, but that's in the aggregate and you're only supposed to look out for yourself.

That's a real problem while astroturfed culture wars are just a spectacle to distract you from real problems.
 

Cute Anime Girl

Money in Elections and Voting

Campaign Finance Disclosure Requirements
ForAgainst
Reps039 (100%)
Dems59 (96%)0



DISCLOSE Act
ForAgainst
Reps039
Dems590



Backup Paper Ballots - Voting Record
ForAgainst
Reps20170
Dems2280



Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act
ForAgainst
Reps838
Dems513



Sets reasonable limits on the raising and spending of money by electoral candidates to influence elections
ForAgainst
Reps042
Dems540


They all failed because Republicans keep killing them.

With Bernie Sanders you had an attempt to counteract this with a grassroots movement, millions of dollars raised.
Sanders lost despite raising more money than Biden. He lost due to the vote (and by a landslide), not due to disparities in campaign finance. Say it with me: praxis 👏 is 👏 voting 👏
(half-joking)

Also, where lies the value to the conversation in anecdotally comparing me to islamists anyway?
Point out the defect in the rationale. I didn't like manner, but that's me.
 
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Weaver

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Point out the defect in the rationale.
Then it's funny how someone would try to point out a defect in someone's rationale by making an absoltely fallacious argument.
My rationale was faulty because some dude said I sounded like someone else who had bad opinions on other stuff tangential to this conversation? Not very smart.
 

Weaver

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Yeah. I miss him too. You really remind me of him.
He thought intellect was his main asset but instead it was his big passionate heart.