(2/2) Ideas From A Long Time M&B Player - Discussion is Welcomed

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Because I passed the 40.000 character limit I had to post this in two parts, sorry.
Part 1: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ime-m-b-player-discussion-is-welcomed.440399/

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READER WARNING: This post and its first part has not been checked for punctuational, spelling and grammatical mistakes, you have been warned.
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3 Role Playing, NPC Characters, World Building, Immersion, Quests and Game Modes

3.1 Named NPC (Notable) Creation Algorithm

3.1.a
Notables should have character traits based on simply simulated lives (like the players character creation) and these traits should effect their dialogue options and their decision making AI.

3.1.b That's it. Do this at a level that effects their decision making AI (doesn't have to too complicated, make it just enough to have some variety) and you got yourself a sweet deal.

3.1.c Apply the culture bonuses to NPCs as well, if you're not already doing it that is.

3.1.d Some noble NPCs should have a trait that allows them to, ignore the norms of nobility and choose to engage with the player in a deeper level even if they aren't part of nobility yet, i.e. courtship.


3.2 Companion Quests

3.2.a
There are only limited archetypes of companions, assign loyalty quests to each of these archetypes and you got yourself a much more interesting companion system!

3.2.b When determining archetypes be mindful of these traits:
-Gender
-Age
-Sexual Orientation
-Childhood Background (writing it incase you don't implement the 3.1.a)
-Adolescent Job (like apprenticing with a smith, being a squire to a noble or being a thief)
-Area of Speciality
-Educational Background
-Faction of Origin
-Nobility Status
-Economic Class

3.2.c Randomly assign pre-existing relations for the individual companions to certain individuals or locations in the world. These relations doesn't have to have big consequences, just a passing remark while near a place of interest to the companion would be enough.


3.3 Books and Learning How to Read

3.3.a
Instead of letting the player character magically know how to read, make this a "one-off perk" and make the player learn from certain notables. Depending one the choices the player makes during character creation they should be able to start with the ability to read.

3.3.b Reflecting the players lack of knowledge in reading in the simulation would be really cool. Such as the player not being able to read signs towns, books and letters of all kinds sent them. These letters might include orders, requests or invitations from the members of the players faction. They might be love letters from a love interest or a mysterious letter from an unknown person. Players lack of knowledge in reading might cause them to be humiliated once they start rubbing shoulders with the nobility. This rather simple addition can add so much depth to the game, please consider it.

3.3.c Add the book system from Warband back in, but this time have some text from the beginning of each book (like in Skyrim). Detail history and lore in those sections, like that stupid battle.


3.4 Romance System

3.4.a
Bring back the weddings, courtship, bards, poets and poems from the prior games and expand them. Bring back the dynamics of creating a positive relationship and asking for permission from the bachelorettes parents before marrying or having to escape with her and facing consequences for your actions. Those features were great, bring them back and expand them and detail them further.

3.4.b In addition to these, add an option to build a garden in towns for nobility to hold feasts and gatherings in. Nobles in all historical ages loved their recreational gardens, and they are cool.

3.5.c If player isn't of noble blood or haven't proven themselves to be virtuous and honorable or don't have enough relations with any clans in the faction, they shouldn't be able to successfully engage in courtship with a member of that faction. Exceptions may apply.


3.5.d AI clans should attempt to marry their youth to each other to solidify relations. This should especially take place between clans in different factions.


3.5 Sexism

3.5.a
Add sexism as a separate character trait to named NPCs and reflect the trait in those NPCs dialogues and in their decision making AI. I quite miss the sexist comments and decisions from Warband's notables.


3.5.b Since you're on it, add some sexist dialogue options for unnamed NPCs as well. Such as, a guard insulting a certain ability of the players female character and vice versa.


3.6 Smithing System Revamp and Expansion

3.6.a
I have huge problems with the current approach to the Smithing System, which makes no logical sense. How can a person be a ruler, ruling over a huge faction, a master trader, a master swordsman, a master bowman, a master rider and a master smith, all at the same time? As far as I am aware, wheelhouse of a given smith before the modern times was quite limited, but the player can liberally create a weapon using any part from any culture, with no hurdles at all. Neither of these makes no sense. Smithing should be a career (roleplaying) choice, and one of which that requires immense time, money and skill (point) investment, not something that the player can do at the side.

3.6.b My solution is to add culture based mastery for weapons crafting and part unlocking, while making the process to become a master smith much harder than it currently is. This approach should also guide the player to interact with the world more. To start learning how to craft using a cultures highest grade weapon parts, player must be at a minimum level in smithing. Than the player has to find a qualified smith of that culture and become their apprentice. Apprenticeship process should take a long in-game time, during which the player has to stay with their teacher to train but can pause the training, leave and return at will. This apprenticeship might cost money, which should depend on the teachers personality. Player has to provide the materials to train with i.e. to smith with. In the process, player will make relatively low quality weapons and can sell them. This process basically has to be repeated 3 times in total, for each culture. This is the basic outline, details ahead.

3.6.c I know Taleworlds likes their skill system. After scraping many prototypes and having finally found the seemingly perfect system, which also nicely fits into a single window. Yet, I am going to say something that might brake their precious hearts; the idea that this system is perfect and you have to stick to it is nothing but an illusion and an artificial restraint on imagination. Although I support creative limitations (limitations can help bring out imagination after all), I found these particular limitations to be too restrictive for it's own good. I'm going to recommend a somewhat different approach than the current Smithing Skill Tree. Embrace the new hotness, which is detailed further down. (3.6.m for UI)

3.6.d Firstly, classify every weapon part under a respective cultures. You can also classify the culture of common weapons found in marketplaces, for the sake of consistency.

3.6.e Here, my detailed recommendations for Smithing Skill Tree changes can be found. Take the weapon parts in a given culture and divide them in to 7 categories of increasing quality grades. Having divided the weapon parts of each culture into 7 grades, make the first 4 grades accessible through normal skill learning process. That is to say, put no culture based restrictions while crafting with parts that are up to grade 4, but put culture restrictions into learning. Current weapon part learning system should stay in place, with a few tweaks. Player shouldn't be able to learn the recipes of weapon parts, that are any more than one grade above their grade level. e.g. player smelts a grade 6 weapon while at grade 3, gets to learn a bunch of grade 3 and 4 recipes, in the end a message pops-up saying that they could've learned a bunch more recipes (at grade 5, 6 and 7) but they couldn't because those recipes were above their grade level. Which should incentivize the player to smelt weapons only one grade above theirs and allow them to learn all the recipes of that grade in a more focused manner. This should also incentivize them to sell higher grade weapons instead of smelting or holding on to them. Weapon types should always give the same number of parts regardless of grade, e.g. a grade 6 battleaxe gives the same number of grade 3 and 4 part recipes as a grade 4 battleaxe when smelted,

Every grades relation to the 275 skill cap:
-Grade 1 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 0
-Grade 2 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn recipes of this grade, starting from grade 1 and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 50
-Grade 3 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn recipes of this grade, starting from grade 2 and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 100
-Grade 4 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn recipes of this grade, starting from grade 3 and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 150
(Tutoring is needed for the next three steps)
-Grade 5 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn recipes of this grade, starting from grade 4 and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 200
-Grade 6 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn recipes of this grade, starting from grade 5 and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 225
-Grade 7 weapon parts of every culture > player can start to learn recipes of this grade, starting from grade 6 and craft with the weapon parts of this grade starting from level 255

When the player hits level 200, smithing skill tree will split into 6 parts (representing each culture) and each of those 6 parts will further split into 3 sections. Each Section should require tutoring to be unlocked. Every culture is use the same exact blueprint for skill progression in the example below.

System of learning skills for grade 5, 6 and 7:

-level 200 > skill tree splits into 6 (cultures) > player picks a culture from the culture wheel (3.6.m) > Section 1 (grade 5), starts at level 200 and ends at 225 > Section 2 (grade 6), starts at level 225 and ends at 250 > Section 3 (grade 7), starts at level 250 and ends at 275 > completion of all 3 sections should conclude the cultures skill tree.

I'm leaving the decision as to what kind of perks should be put in to each branch of this skill tree and at which points they should be placed, to it's designers. Partly because I don't want to think of two dosen perks and write them down, and partly because they are subject to change as the game further develops.

3.6.f There should only be 9 qualified smiths of a given culture for the player to be tutored by. These 9 smiths should split into 3 categories:

-Experienced Smiths > there should only be 5 of these smiths available at any time in a given culture > these smiths should only be able to teach Section 1 of a given cultures mastery tree.
-Advanced Smiths > there should only be 3 of these smiths available at any time in a given culture > these smiths should be able to teach both Section 1 and 2 of a given cultures mastery tree.
-The Master Smith > there should only be 1 of these smiths available at any time in a given culture > this smith should only accept to teach the player if the player is level 250 and as a result should only teach section 3.

3.6.g After hitting the "culture wall", the player has to decide which culture to master and has to find one of the 5 Experienced Smiths of that culture. After finding an Experienced Smith in whatever hole they were hiding in, player has to ask the Experienced Smith about becoming their apprentice, (which might involve a quest or just a straight payment or a show of skill) after becoming an apprentice, player must spend 5 weeks learning from their teacher and create a certain number of weapons in the process (I feel like 1 every three days and a final weapon at the last day of training is fair). During which the materials needed must be supplied by the player. Player should have the ability to pause the training, leave and return at will. After crafting the training weapons and completing the training process, player now has completed section 1 of the learning process to complete the cultures mastery. At the end of section 1, players tutor retires (having found a suitable successor) and the player takes their place as one of the 5 Experienced Smiths of that culture(3.6.k). After finding an Advanced Smith, player has to finish the 2nd section of the mastery for that culture in the same manner as the first section. At the end of section 2, same thing at the end of section 1 happens and the player takes their tutors place as one of the 3 advanced smiths of the culture. Player, having completed the first 2 sections, now has to find The Master of the culture and ask to become their apprentice, to prove themselves player must forge an item formed entirely from level 6 weapon parts and must not get an "Unqualified Smith" mark on the weapon(3.6.h). After being accepted as an apprentice, player should follow the same procedure as before. When the section 3 is finished, cultures mastery skill tree is completed. With the end of his tutoring days, and having found a suitable successor, The Master retires and leaves the player as the sole Master of that culture(3.6.k). With their masterhood gained, other NPCs should come to the player to become their apprentice and learn the mastery of the culture, which may include the players own children.

3.6.h Weapon pricing should be determined firstly by the grade of it's materials and secondly by it's overall stats, not giving the damage stat the top spot and making other stats important for the price consideration is critical. In addition, if the weapons smith is at a higher grade than the target grade of the weapon crafted, that weapon should gain stat bonuses as well as a mark stating what grade the smith that made it was.


3.6.i Stats and the price of a crafted weapon should significantly drop and no experience point should be given, if the player doesn't have the skill (grade) level and/or the culture specialization to create the weapon they are attempting to smith. In addition to price and stat drops, crafted weapon should also be marked as being made by an "Unqualified Smith". (or just don't allow the player to make weapons using parts above their grade level)

3.6.j Alternative to this entire process, The Master and the other smiths of a culture should be able to be commissioned to make weapons, up to their respective grades. Player should be able to fully design the weapon at the smiths place of business. Player should supply the materials and pay a fee to the smith for using their expertise. Fees should be determined by the grade and the number of materials used for the weapons creation, number of materials should be considered because of the relative effort the smith will use. Also, any smiths who are making weapons below their grade should give stat and value bonuses to the weapons, and the smith should charge a higher fee then the weapons grade level smith would have, for the bonuses brought on by their expertise. All smiths should refuse to attempt making weapons using parts that are above their skill grades.

3.6.k Masters and any other Advanced Smiths of a given culture should die like everyone else (if the player has the option open) but they should have other students to replace them, so that there is always a Master and other smiths available for each culture.

3.6.l Notables should start coming to the player to commission custom weapon projects, after the player completes the section 1 of that cultures mastery skill tree, however, commission requests should not happen before this, as there are many other smiths who can make weapons up to but not including grade 5. Profile of the customers should increase with that of the player, e.g. at grade 5 town notables come, at grade 6 lords come (excluding clan leaders), at grade 7 clan leaders come.

3.6.m When making custom weapons player should be able to write custom imprints on the sides of weapons, it's fun.

3.6.n TLDR: Add little sliding windows for each culture to preserve the single window skill menu.
Method outlined here can be used to preserve the single window skill system (I could've told the same thing with a single image, very long sigh). There is ample space on the smithing sections horizontal column shaped perks window to put a circular (or if you feeling fancy, hexagonal) button, which would allow the use of a multi-layered system. 200 in the smithing skill tree is about the middle of the horizontal column, which is the back ground to the perks. Put a button to the right of the last perk(s) (which should be at level 200 for previously outlined reasons). When clicked, this button should cause a window to come out of it itself towards to the right of the screen (right of the screen should be empty), this window should be about the same vertical height as the button. This window should have 6 additional circular buttons on it, each emblazoned by the sigil of their respective culture. When clicked, each of the buttons should cause a sperate window to come out from the end of the horizontal column from the right side (starting positions of these windows should not pass into the character models part of the screen), these second windows should move towards to the left of the screen, covering (and closing) the 1st window and stopping when it reaches the first (hexagonal) buttons right most edge (leaving a little gap). These second windows should be about the same vertical length as the horizontal column that forms the back ground to the perks. Each of these buttons should display different windows of same proportions, each window displaying their respective cultures smithing skill tree and perks. Also, by moving the perk buttons of skills up to 200 closer, more space can be gained.

3.6.o Multiple cultures should be allowed to be mastered in a single playthrough.

3.6.p The master and the other smiths of every culture should have prior histories, for world building reasons.

3.6.q Different grade weapon parts can be mixed, but only under the condition that the smith doing the smithing of the weapon is knowledgeable about all the grades in question.


4 Miscellaneous

4.1
Implement RTX for Posterity.
4.1.a I'm guessing that the recent DLSS implementation is in preparation for the eventual implementation of RTX features but incase it isn't, do consider implementing them.

4.2 Put the "Talk" button above the "Visit" button.
4.2.a Big quality of life improvement

4.3 Unless the villagers are going to choose to join the fight on the side of a party, don't set battles in village scenes. Regardless of the players parties proximity to the village.
4.3.a I just don't like fighting in village scenes.

4.4 Looters, brigands, bandits, villagers and any other low numbered parties spawn in with perfect intervals (which is normal) but then they start marching towards my troops with perfect unison and since they don't have a commander they continue from their starting position and preserving the perfect intervals between them. Once you notice this, it's just impossible to unseen and it starts to look silly that a bunch of brigands can keep such perfect marching order while keeping perfect intervals. If this is relatively easy to fix, please consider doing so.

4.5 Add more kingdom policies
4.5.a Just add more kingdom policies

4.6 There should be a multiplayer campaign mode
4.6.a When I say campaign, I don't mean the single player style campaign, I mean something more akin to Rising Storm's campaign mode.
4.6.b Players join a server (which should have the maximum possible player number cap available under the engine, for fun), choose a faction from 2 available options, see an overworld map selection system similar to the one in Rising Storm, a coin is flipped and the attacking side is chosen, than the attackers choose which region to attack, that region must border one of theirs. After attackers choose the region, they also choose the map from a pool of three seige maps. After that, sides fight it over with the ticket system from Rising Storm. Attackers win if they manage to capture all the points, defenders win if they exhaust all the tickets available to attackers. Also, if the defenders win they get to be in the offensive. Final battle happens in the HQ of the side that got pushed all the way back to their HQ. Final battle is a pitched field battle where both sides get a single wave. If the defenders win they get to be on the offensive, if the attacker win the campaign is over.
4.6.c I think open field battles wouldn't be fun to do in the normal battles before the HQ push.

4.7 When people say they want co-op in Bannerlord they don't mean that they want co-op campaign or sandbox, they are trying to say that they want to do the big AI battles with friends. So, here's my solution to the co-op question: Take the Custom Battle mode, add the highest online co-op player cap you can, while preserving the ~1000 on screen troop cap, add the ability for each player to control a mix of troops as a captain and you got yourself a satisfactory co-op mode. You can expand this in many ways while keeping the core idea but this is my third day of writing this **** and I don't want here for a fourth.

4.8 It shouldn't be so easy to promote low tier troops to high tiers.
4.9.a I can promote troops to tier 4 in about 25 minutes into the game, 30 minutes for tier 5.

4.10 Add some actually meaningful stuff to do in the beautifully modeled and designed towns and villages. (you might want to check the 1.3 and 1.4 for some ideas)

4.11 Randomly assign basic traits (like: Honor, loyalty, greed etc.) to unnamed NPCs, such as guards, for the purposes of making the roguery skill checks more varied and unpredictable.

4.12 What happend to the idea of minor faction bases?

5 Notes:

(moved the notes to Part 1 due to the fact that there was no note citations in this post)

Extra Note for TaleWorlds: I don't know how poorly the XenForo guys have written the code for the typing section but my CPU stayed above 85°C during the entire writing process, it was on cooler boost. You guys might want to run this by them.

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This is it! You have read every word I wrote! Cheers!

This is only the part 2 of 2 parts.
Part 1: https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...ime-m-b-player-discussion-is-welcomed.440399/

The writing process took about 3 days and I stopped enjoying it at about the end of the second day, but I had to finish it.
Could I possibly written this better? yes.
Did I want to spend more time doing it? nope.

Write your opinion below, let's discuss.

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Authored by Grumpy Barbie

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(If you're going to comment about anything in this post please divert to Part 1 instead)
 
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Because

Sergeant
3.1 personally I'd be happier with them fixing the current trait system and ideally having that and your traits and your actions towards them being the thing that impacts most on Nobles interactions with you.
3.2 I agree, but by having characters as archtypes you'd need to make the quests and dialogue unique/random because as soon as quests or lines got repeated I think it would ruin the immersion to have all archtypes the same.
3.3c is a great idea, the rest don't add enough to the average game to be worth implementing IMO.
3.4 Wholehearted yes to everything with the exception of 3.5d as I don't think the outside focus scans and would keep it faction neutral. Love the garden idea especially.
3.5 Again agreed as a trait rather than a blanket rule would be a great feature and the best way of implementing this issue. Also a good way of giving nobles more personality too.
3.6 I think the entire concept of smithing as a player clashes with every other element of the game and should be scrapped and replaced by 3.6.i. which is a great idea and I would use. Would be good to apply to armour and ranged weapons even if you couldn't craft them to the same level of detail. If you are going to keep it though I am personally not convinced about the changes you suggest, although they would flesh out the smithing as the focus of a play through, I can't imagine myself every wanting to do that playthrough, so again would rather they devoted their efforts elsewhere.
4.1 & .2 I am indifferent on
4.3 Hell yes. Hate fighting in villages and the uncertainty of when you will be in one or not when in the map.
4.4 Again yes it is a little jarring and would be great for them to fix to give them more of a rabble like approach.
4.5 Low priority and I can see how they could get hard to balance the more you add, but more options are good.
4.6 I don't play multiplayer so have no opinion.
4.7 I'd be happy just being able to drop in as a single player character into someone's campaign/sandbox and help them out, but the fix you suggests seems good too.
4.8 Agreed, but you'd need to make them a bit better than they currently are to be worth the investment.
4.10 Agreed cautiously they can be a little dull if you are forced to move around too much in them. Just implementing the gang features better might be a better solution here
4.11 It would really just serve as a bit more of a random RNG so not bothered personally.
4.12 Would rather just give them a home town rather than a distinct base, but have that move based on which faction controls it.
again some great ideas thank you for sharing.
 

xxxaziral

Recruit
I agree with you , when I played mount and blade warband I didn't want another total war ,I wanted to role play a knight in the midieval ages ,those activities they removed such as wedding and feasts and courtships were immersive , I feel the devs are making a mistake by trying to make this game more like "mount and blade Total War", all I wanted in Bannerlord 6 years ago is more advanced Sieges more quests and bigger cities better diplomacy but the devs are stuffing the game with complicated **** they even struggle to make it work ,while they could have made It simpler and more fun.
 
Unfortunately, you're a year behind in your musings. TW is invested in their plan (whatever the hell it might be - we don't know much about it) and has endured the screams of all us players wanting to FIX IT. If the management has any sense, they'll get their plan done come "hell or highwater" ASAP. Taking a sudden turn in direction to make NPCs act intelligent? Ain't in the cards.

Most of us exasperated souls would count it a blessing if they'd just finish what they started. After a year, the only choice after "I'd like to ask you a question" is "Never mind."
 

Figulus

Regular
I agree with you , when I played mount and blade warband I didn't want another total war ,I wanted to role play a knight in the midieval ages ,those activities they removed such as wedding and feasts and courtships were immersive , I feel the devs are making a mistake by trying to make this game more like "mount and blade Total War", all I wanted in Bannerlord 6 years ago is more advanced Sieges more quests and bigger cities better diplomacy but the devs are stuffing the game with complicated **** they even struggle to make it work ,while they could have made It simpler and more fun.
This.
 
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