1860s - WEAPONS compendium (please read and VOTE!!)

[GABRILDURO]

-Carbines and some rifles are held forward like swords/pistols instead of held with 2 hands as a musket

The holding animation that the game selects seems to be depending on the reload type you choose. In Morgh's Editor under "Capabilities" "reload_pistol" let you hold the weapon like a pistol. I made some little videos that shows how the holding and reloading animation looks:

reload_pistol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnSW2vI5gBk&feature=youtu.be
for no reload check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=car2BvDzOPk&feature=youtu.be
reload_crossbow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn9Raqa4Rqk&feature=youtu.be

With my little knowledge about WB modding I think you have two options.
First one to change the reload animation of all rifles that now have reload_pistol.
Or you switch the holding animation that is used because of the reload_pistol check. The used pistol reload animation is in your 1866_anims.brf. But this way the holding animation for pistols looks strange...out of my view more strange than the rifle in pistol animation now.
I don't know if it is possible to force animation over scripting. So if someone else know more about it maybe this could be a solution...but how I said, I know nearly nothing about M&B scripting.

Dear Toxic, ur post was really nice and ur opinions deserve a better place than just this Bugs/suggestion topic 

I already fixed many of the things that u kindly pointed out, in my last Closed Beta V. 0.98g, and soon I will upload it for my best Testers and have them commenting it here, then.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,250795.msg6214722.html#msg6214722
I would be very happy to have U as well in my best testers Bunch! 
....I am still not sure how to handle the Reloading & Holding animation....
I knew that stuff that u pointed out, thx. 
...but fact is that Reloading pistol anim is PERFECT for those Rifles, where u need to insert up to a couple of cartridge ...or change the Cylinder (Colt 1855). Or for the Spencer. (Tube Magazine).
The Rifle Reload is perfect for Henry and repeating rifles....but weird for single or few shots rifles. 

Thx for different animations Vids ( I LOVE VIDEOS!!!  and that girl singing at the tavern is one fo my favourite songs, hehehe...).
I will move this part to the Weapons Topic and see what ppl think and prefer.
...and if someone can help me SPLITTING the Holding pistol anim away from the Reloading Pistol Anim,
Does it really look so bad to have some rifles held with only one hand? What do u really think guys, honestly?

Gab

 

[toxic-nova]

With a bit more gaming time I think as it is, it's the best solution. To hold a rifle in one hand while running isn't wrong. It just looks a bit strange while staying around but as soon I'm aiming all is fine. Video

I said that it is a possibility to change the holding animations. I found out it is not more than a possibility. I changed the animation to test this possibility. Screenshot It's not a solution because it would turn pistol holding animation to a much worser one than it is now for the rifles.

My conclusion is that the way it is handled now is the best one because there isn't much that one can do against engine limitations.
But this is just my point of view and just relies on my priorities and on my limited knowledge of Warfare modding.

 

[GABRILDURO]

....a very good Vid on:
COLT'S Caplocks PISTOLS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx5vOndeFwM

Added a POLL and hope that ALL U guys will answer:

- Did U know that Early Revolvers would be loaded like that?

Gab
PS ...best is to vote and then Post a comment here to say more on this...and maybe say something on how U like guns and holsters, as I modified them. 

To TOX

U will like how I fixed most of that issue and how cool it looks, expecially if conbined with the new Formations and fire orders (THX Harly for nice suggestions!!!!!!  )
Gab

 

[Captured Joe]

The video is quite long, and I can't very well see how exactly those guns were loaded. I had an overall idea how that would work though.
I'm better at the reload mechanism of flintlock muskets...

 

[bb09red]

Here some vids I found:


The first shows a cannon, but a rifle loading at the end
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08133S2uI5M

The second shows several rifles and repeaters being loaded/fired

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUsdWDycexY

Heres a Colt Navy 1851 being loaded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G2zFzaDXxc

 

[GABRILDURO]

Thx BB, vids like those help a lot our Players to understand.
Some might not get the language, but the images are pretty good...I liked the Colt Navy 1851 a lot (see, guys how long it takes? Do not ask me to shorten reloading times more again!!  )

Any other good vid is welcome, folks, if u find more...


TO JOE:

Yeah...I know... vid is good but not the best. And is kind of boring long. 
....couldn t find a better one 

Any better source, even on other period guns (even on rifles, as well) are welcome. So that ppl can know better 
Gab
PS ...even if U post a comment, pls Vote at Poll (U have up to 2 votes, in case U need to flag last answer as well, to declare that u also posted a comment  )

 

[GABRILDURO]

HENRY Rifle Video and history. ENJOY!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ln4WeTHE5m8#t=0s

....and if U slide the arrow on the right, there, many more 1860s weapons are well shown, as well. 
A guy posted a comment on how he used the Henry in a Mod called 1860s Old America!!!!!!!!!! 
Gabby

 

[Rolf11]

A few confederate rifles...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayetteville_rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitworth_rifle

 

[GABRILDURO]

Thx Rolf! ....and thx to all ppl that contribute! 

Please, folks...don t be lazy! 
it took time and effort to make this Topic as clear and useful as possible 
....at least read and VOTE!!

Gab

 

[Bluebarry]

Need more Hunter/Mountain Men Rifles!

http://user.xmission.com/~drudy/mtman/museum/guns/guns.html

 

[Quickdraw]

What you guys seem to miss is that even then cartridge conversions of Colt were available. They already knew technology of producing it, only thing that was preventing them from doing so was Rolling-White patent, which was held by Smith & Wesson from 1854 to 1871. They begun producing cartridge conversions immediately in 1871. They could not do it earlier because of that patent, even if they knew how to. But other part of story is, actually, that patent did not prevent any gunsmith in the Old West to make mettalic cartridge conversion. They were not really common- but yeah they were available.

The Remington New Model Army in 1858 was a powerful .44 caliber pistol with a barrel length between 7 and 8 inches. Compared to the colt, the "castle" was closed, with a supplementary target organ connecting the hammer to the barrel and the weapon that gave greater precision to the shooter and protection against hot flashes resulting from the detonation at the time of the shooting. In addition, the gun was more resistant and durable than the Colts. Another important feature of the remington was given by the ease of recharging: lowering the elegant "sail" placed underneath the barrel, in fact, was freed the fixing pin of the drum, which could come unhooked and quickly be replaced with one already loaded and locked again . A much more simple operation compared with the colt, where it was necessary to remove the drum and unscrew the castle, an unthinkable operation while at horse and more thant that during a battle.

The strength of the castle closed, the charging speed and elegance of the forms of Remington made ​​one of the best revolver ever appeared.

This post has lots of conclusions that were made I think by comparing today's replica Colts and Remingtons. First of all- I believe what you call "castle" is top strap above cylinder, right? Actually- that did not make revolver any stronger when shooting. When shooting black powder pressure is centered mainly on center part of revolver frame- on cylinder pin around which revolver cylinder rotates. Only when shooting modern smokeless powder pressure is center on top part of frame and top strap - and then it matters. If we compare cylinder pins of Colt and Remington we will see that Colt had MUCH stronger and bigger cylinder pin, and Remington was 3 to 4 times slimmer. You say Remington was elegant? Thing that must be considered is balance. Colts had much better balance than Remingtons, which were not natural pointers, and they simply don't feel that good in hand. Then you must consider how good Remingtons were in that time, not by today's replicas. US Army did not use it for reason. General Custer (one who died at Little Bighorn) said that it would foul up and jam horribly after 20 shots. It was also because cylinder pin did not have greased grooves which helped rotating it. Colt would continue to fire perfectly after even more shots. And for the end- cylinder changes were used back in the days, but they weren't that common. And you can reload Colt by changing cylinder without unscrewing. You will just get three parts when changing it instead of Remington's two. And yeah- it will take some more time
I think I explained enough why Colt is preferable choice

 

[GABRILDURO]

Hey Quick! 
Very nice to see u here and posting!
Thx v m for ur precious and true considerations...I d love to debate on some things ( Iagree on most U say, though  ) but I just came back from a 2 weeks absence and had to shoot some answers here and there... and I m afraid I ll be buried with the tons of messages that I got in the meanwhile....
And yes...the original text was from old good Amiral Thrown and in...italian.
Gaxleep did a long and great job translating it but some terms were too...technical for us, see? 
Gab
PS...I ll try soon to debate here some more, but pls feel welcome to continue ur explainations,/considerations ok? 

 

[Gaxleep]

I apologize for the delay in replying guys, but I can confirm that a large part of my job was to directly translate what Admiral Thrawn wrote and sent me, so it was expected that some term is not exactly correct, speaking precisely of such technical matters. 

 

[GABRILDURO]

...did anybody notice the last version weapons that I made, even on the horses?!
http://www.moddb.com/mods/1860s-old-america/images/na13861860765#imagebox

...that was difficult, I swear...

Gab

 

[Fogbot3]

http://cap-n-ball.com/ballard.htm
I noticed the Ballard .44 rifle is not on here due to being independently made, It was made before the 1860's, but it was patented in 1861. Considering it was considered one of the best single-shot rifles ever made and you cheated on a few other rifles made just a few years late by calling them prototypes, this should definitely get some mention.

 

[GABRILDURO]

you cheated on a few other rifles made just a few years late by calling them prototypes

Actually I called the Mod 1860s cuz I meant to set it NOT in 1860 precise year but in that 1860/69 DECADE, see?
Most people still do not get that point.
That is why I set the yearn on the world map to a zero.
Which is a smart way to avoid a specific year.
But not cheating, really.

Instead, a couple of players called that...a bug?! 

I like to pretend that I am in different time periods, according to where I am atm on the world map (early 60s for ACW and Frontier zones and LATE 60s for Mexican areas, when the French invasion started)

Please report this as often as possible to other players, when they ask and I am not around,  cuz it was really a good and still historical
choice that I made.

BACK to topic...yes, u are right but already my Modand Old 1866 on M&B are the most precise on old west weapons of ever.
Did U see the other Games from Ubisoft/Activision/Techland?! 
My god....so bad on sounds, reloading, specs and historical usage... and many issues...and we pay money to buy them.

Once again, thx to the many ppl that made the weaponry that is in my 1860s Mod and to Gax and those that concur to keep this Topic active (including U, FOG!  )

Gab
PS...I had to "group" many different types of weapons giving them the same sound.
1866 instead was able to code any gun with a specific sound. That was a plus of the mod.
Nevertheless, the sounds that I finally  used are ....SO MUCH IMMERSIVE, aren t them?!

 

[Fogbot3]

you cheated on a few other rifles made just a few years late by calling them prototypes

Actually I called the Mod 1860s cuz I meant to set it NOT in 1860 precise year but in that 1860/69 DECADE, see?
Most people still do not get that point.
That is why I set the yearn on the world map to a zero.
Which is a smart way to avoid a specific year.
But not cheating, really.

Instead, a couple of players called that...a bug?! 

I like to pretend that I am in different time periods, according to where I am atm on the world map (early 60s for ACW and Frontier zones and LATE 60s for Mexican areas, when the French invasion started)

Please report this as often as possible to other players, when they ask and I am not around,  cuz it was really a good and still historical
choice that I made.

BACK to topic...yes, u are right but already my Modand Old 1866 on M&B are the most precise on old west weapons of ever.
Did U see the other Games from Ubisoft/Activision/Techland?! 
My god....so bad on sounds, reloading, specs and historical usage... and many issues...and we pay money to buy them.

Once again, thx to the many ppl that made the weaponry that is in my 1860s Mod and to Gax and those that concur to keep this Topic active (including U, FOG!  )

Gab
PS...I had to "group" many different types of weapons giving them the same sound.
1866 instead was able to code any gun with a specific sound. That was a plus of the mod.
Nevertheless, the sounds that I finally  used are ....SO MUCH IMMERSIVE, aren t them?!

Oh wow, I'm dumb, I thought the 's the was supposed to be possessive or something, is there a link to your 1866 mod, and does it have the ballard .44?

 

[GABRILDURO]

1866 is NOT mine. It was a huge and incredible  Highlander/Yellowmosquito's Team project for OLD M&B! 
And no, the Ballard was not there...if I m not wrong.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/board,150.0.html

Gab