1809 Napoleonic Roleplay planning and discussion. Pro-French character wanted!

[Amman d Stazia]

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,88876.0.html

A role play set in the Napoleonic Wars and specifically in the borderlands between Northern Portugal and Spanish Galicia early in 1809,

Roleplayers may choose to join any army/faction. (*see below*)
'applications' to lead a platoon or section are encouraged.
Amman is by common consent GM.

Groups or factions which we can join (examples of units in italics)

France (Armee d' Portugal)
Commander in 1808 is Soult, 2ic is Ney.  Their mission is to trap and destroy the British army under Moore. Their secondary mission is to occupy the Portuguese cities of Oporto and Lisbon.
As with all French Army Corps, they operate independently, answering only to the Emperor. (That's why I'm putting up 2 seperate French options).
15th Leger light Infantry, Swiss Regiment Valaison, Regiment Irlandaise, 3rd Dragoons.

France  (Armee l'Sud)
Commander in 1808 is Junot, 2ic Sebastiani.  Their mission is to destroy the Spanish Loyalist armies under La Romana and Cuesta, and to occupy the main southern cities of Seville, Badajoz, Cadiz and of course Gibraltar.  Their secondary mission is to assist with the conquest of Portugal.
4th (Polish) Infantry, 8th de Ligne*{wore white until late '09}, Vistula Lancers, Cleve-Berg Infantry

Britain (Army of Moore, later Wellington)
Commander in 1808 is Moore, in 1809 Wellington.  Mission is to co-operate with the Spanish field armies loyal to King Ferdinand, in their efforts to rid Spain of the French.  Equally important is to protect their base of operations in Portugal.
KGL light and heavy Dragoons, 71st Highland Light Infantry, 5th Foot, 52nd Light Infanty, 88th (Connaught) Foot

Spanish Godoyistas (Afransescados = french-lovers) * includes regulars and guerrilleros, in total small in number
Commander in 1808 Joseph Bonaparte, King of Spain.  (Godoy was the Spanish First Minister who conspired with the French to have them take over Spain.  He is dead by now...)  Mission is to assist Napoleon's armies in establishing a safe, pro-French Spain under Joseph's rule. 
Guard Lancers, Guard Fusiliers, irregulars

Spanish Leales (loyalists = anti-french) * includes regulars and guerrilleros, in total the majority of Spanish military.
Command in 1808 is split geographically between Marques La Romana, in the North and West, and General Cuesta in the South and Centre.  Mission is to remove French troops from Spain, preferably without relying on Anglo-Portuguese assistance, and restore Ferdinand to his Spanish throne.
Maria Luisa Hussars, Villavicosia Dragoons, Regt Muerte, Murcia Grenadiers, Regt Hiberna, guerrileros

Portugal (Royal Army and partisans, both anti-french)
Command in 1808 is non-existant, the regular army having been disbanded by Junot when he occupied Portugal at the start of the year.  By early 1809 though the British General Beresford and a small group of Anglo-portuguese like Warre began the process of rebuilding a regular Portuguese army.  Mission is the defence of Portugal in cooperation with the British Army.
Lusitanian Legion Light Dragoons, 3rd Cacadores, 10th (Lisbon) Foot, partisans

 

[Amman d Stazia]

Some basics:

RP starts in the first half of 1809.  The British expedition to Corunna has been evacuated with much loss of pride and material.  French armies control most of Portugal and most of Spain, but are harassed by small groups of bandits and freedom fighters. Spain continues to field two armies - that of La Romana, and that of Cuesta.  Portugal's army is being rebuilt with the help of a couple of hundred British officers, including General Sir William Beresford.
Britain's contribution is the garrison of Lisbon, currently only about fifteen thousand, but with reinforcements arriving daily, commanded by Sir Arthur Wellesley.


The exact location in which we begin is the rough mountain borderlands north-east of Oporto, which is called "The Land Beyond The Mountains" by the locals: Tras os Montes.

Please create your own characters, do not borrow them from popular or classical fiction.  Please check with others before introducing historical figures in anything other than a passing cameo.
(eg., it is fine if you lift your hat in passing to General Crauford.  You would want to check first, though, before having General Crauford promise you a battalion of Riflemen in support.)

Role players are permitted to take ANY side in the struggle.  Conflict between them will be moderated by the Gamesmaster, which so far seems to be Amman d Stazia by common consent.

We should attempt to be historically realistic.  There follow a few rules of thumb:
British infantry and French infantry are almost equal in 1809.  The British are slightly better trained but the French are much more experienced. 
Portugal's infantry is still a fair way behind either in 1809, but given leadership and close support from British troops can be relied on to stand and fight.
Spanish regular infantry - both pro and anti French - are all but useless.  Only some of their 'elite' regiments reach the standard of the Portuguese.

British cavalry is inferior to French cavalry.  The German cavalry in British service is the exception, and this is better than French cavalry.
Portuguese cavalry is a bad joke and mainly confined to dismounted, garrison duty.  The only exception are the light dragoons of the Lusitanian Legion, who are as good as most British cavalry.
Spanish cavalry is as bad as Portuguese, but continues to take the field and disgrace itself.

Neither the British nor the French have irregular troops.
Portuguese irregulars are mainly bandits strengthened by former militia who have not joined the new army raised by Britain. 
Spanish irregulars are partly bandits, but also in large numbers ex-soldiers.
Both Spanish and Portuguese guerrilas lack tactical skill and regular supply, but compensate with ferocity, local knowledge, and the support of the population at large.

Artillery: French artillery is the best, closely followed by the Spanish, whilst the British and Portuguese both have competent and professional artillery. 

In all cases, the FRENCH receive no help from locals, the SPANISH & PORTUGUESE unlimited assistance, and the BRITISH grudging assistance if they pay cash.

British and Portuguese troops (except when isolated) will be properly supplied and fed.  Spanish troops and French troops live off the land, for the Spaniards in their home country the main difficulty is finding people who have food to give them.  For the French, finding food is extremely difficult.  As often as not they will have to start killing people in order to force the others to uncover hidden supplies of food.  Both Spanish and French suffer from an intermittent shortage of all other supplies - the Spanish through corruption and inefficency, the French through the attentions of irregular troops attacking their supply convoys.

French troops move fastest of the regulars, but not so fast as the guerrilas. British and Portuguese troops are the next fastest, the Spaniards slowest moving.
As a rule of thumb, if French infantry march 30 kilometres then British/Portuguese will march 25 and Spanish 20.

 

[Hietala]

You could also say that it is in some fictive land, but in a napoleonic age; One nation with a status like France, and several others based on the real ones...
just a random idea...

 

[Amman d Stazia]

possible, but not in my taste....

Lets see what everyone else has to say.

Hows that cookie?

 

[Boomie]

Best bet would be Spain. Spanish Partisans who work in small groups would be our best chance at a proper RP instead of all those huge armies. Of course, not saying that we can't join in on those large battles, just saying that our small groups of partisans and skirmisher companies would be a better option.

 

[RalliX]

You could be mercenary companies from the baltic regions. I'm not joining, just giving input.
You also could make this a naval RP, that would be quite original I think, plus there were many major naval battles within the English Channel and Atlantic Ocean at that time. (You might have to study early 18th century naval technologies first though.)

 

[Amman d Stazia]

i would certainly have to read some more Hornblower....  But I think naval Rp would automatically put everyone in charge of a vessel, no matter what size... which might be wierd.  If players were not commanders on their ships, there would be a whole bundle of issues ...  At least with land-based RP, it is realistic for low-level people to be off by themselves or at least under relatively loose control of higher authority - or even, as Boomie said, partisan-style units...

Naval would certainly be a unique RP, but I think it would establish itself as every player commanding a ship.....

 

[Venitius]

A Cavalry piquet? I'm in favour of the KGL. Peninsular War is a good choice in my view. For the Naval RP, it would be something like the dead Steampunk RP, but more militaristic. And of course set in the Napoleonic Era and on a sail-powered ship.

 

[Ravenheild]

Of course if we go through this I will have to read A LOT more about the subject but maybe we could be part of a destroyed regiment which could explain low numbers. Also which side would be fighting for?

 

[Jec94227]

I'd be interested, and I agree that the penninsular campaign would be a good setting, as my knowledge of the other area's is kinda nonexistant.
Also, what do you mean by "Is Sharpe allowed". Does that mean including Sharpe characters in the RP?

AS for combat, between individuals or small scale action(Less than one company either side), I think the honor system would work, and impose penalties and whatnot on those that are being pricks and abusing the system. The Larger battles (more than 2 companies, maybe?) Could be decided by the highest ranking player for each side. Or if this is where all the Role players are on the same side, we could choose from the players whose turn it is to be the "Bad Guy". Whoever commands the armies will order their units around, telling them ther objectives, and what they need to get done, taking into account morale and numbers, and if it's possible to organise such things, ammo and that sort of supplies. A logical outcome can get decided on, including things like how desperate the battle is, whether or not the troops must absolutely suceed, or the fighting styles of their country, like the French combined arms, or the English being fast with their muskets.

 

[Venitius]

We could set up a poll saying "which side should we be on" with the options of Allied/Coalition and the French (and various races in their army). I'd like a Peninsular RP, too. I think having all players on one side is beneficial as it might end up in a massive brawl and argument (which happened once or twice in Calradia Invaded). Anyway, which branch? Cavalry gives us some kind of freedom, especially light cavalry. Light infantry also has this freedom, but they move slower. Line infantry would be rather static, as as artillery. Although a Naval RP does sound good, it'll have to be a sloop or a brig, at most a frigate so we don't overreach ourselves imo.

 

[Captain Pyjama Shark]

I think one set in an infantry company could work... clueless officers, rugged ncos men, the trials of discipline, and while I won't pretend to be knowledgable about that time period, there were still sieges galore, right?

 

[cameron112497]

probably guerrillas in the peninsula war.lots of flexibilty there.

 

[Temuzu]

Maeby we should be like a one platoon of the French or British or so on army. We would participate in the battles that were fought as one of the units. Like, when all hell breaks loose around us, we should make our own decisions, like do you heroicly charge to the bayonets or do you run away before you get killed too?

The partisan thing sounds cool too, ill join anyway if this kicks off!

 

[The Elusive Mr. Hunt]

Could be a green french infantry company that got ambushed by guerrillas partisans, and is now separated from the main army and trying to get back to France/French-strongpoints. It would give the freedom of RPing Partisans or scouts, plus would do what Ravenheild said, and explain the lack of numbers.

 

[Venitius]

Alternatively we could do the opposite and be a British unit isolated from the main column on the Retreat to Corunna and either end up wandering around for the best part of three-five months when we end up at the battle of Oporto. Or we end up at Vigo with Von Alten's KGL or at Corunna with Sir John Moore who gets killed. Then we arrive some time later with Wellesley and assigned to patrol and scouting.

 

[The Elusive Mr. Hunt]

Writing as the French would allow us to be pitted against the partisans, which might make "returning" more difficult. That was my thought, at least.

 

[Venitius]

Surviving would be a problem entirely.

 

[Boomie]

We could easily have some of the partisans be on bad terms with us. Maybe mistaking us for French patrols, or just wanting us out of their territory.

And I doubt we'll be able to have Sharpe around.

 

[Amman d Stazia]

thanks everyone!  Good input so far.

Quick summary of what I believe we can agree on:

Set in Iberian Peninsula, where we have effectively six factions: 
France (Armee d' Portugal)
France  (Armee l'Sud)
Britain (Army of Moore, later Wellington)
Spanish Godoyistas (Afransescados = french-lovers) * includes regulars and guerrilleros, in total small in number
Spanish Leales (loyalists = anti-french) * includes regulars and guerrilleros, in total the majority of Spanish military.
Portugal (Royal Army and partisans, both anti-french)

Timescale - we start (either the actual RP or a short backstory) in 1808 when Napoleon is in Spain, and has sent Ney and Soult to destroy Moore's army in the West and North, whilst sending other forces South and West to destroy the Spanish loyalists under Cuesta and La Romana, and to occupy Portugal (it has been recently liberated by British).

At the latest the RP should be concerned with 1810-1811, as by late 1811 Napoleon's preparations for the Russian campaign effectively put the French on a manpower-induced defensive, which while it makes things easier for a 'kill the Frogs!' mentality, reduces the effectiveness of one side in the conflict.



Which side to choose: We'll have a debate about this, based on the poll questions.
The main things to decide are:
should ALL RP'ers be on one side? 
if not, which side, how to decide outcomes, and communicating.
if they are on one side, does this mean all anti-French, or all specifically British?

Unit size - we should stick to small units.
Someone has suggested platoons each - I personally like this.  Each RP'er could choose between commanding their platoon as a green subaltern (junior officer) or 2ic -ing their platoon as a veteran NCO.  Each has advantages and drawbacks.
The main benifit though is that a platoon (or cavalry section) is big enough to realistically operate independently, and small enough that we can write about their actions without getting impersonal or 'strategic'.

Pinching characters from popular fiction is out!  (so, nobody has Sergeant Harper in their platoon, OK?)

There should be interaction with partisans, regardless of which faction anyone joins.