1257 AD - Breathtaking, Sometimes Confusing

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LBaeldeth

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I've got to say, this mod is great. It's a wonderful grounding of Native in the historical period with a fantastic re-imagining of the factions and their troop trees. I also adore the retextured and edited items list - always did prefer the look of chainmail to plate. I'm playing as the Northmen, and agonizing over whether to fight in the shield-wall with my infantry or join my growing number of Norman-esque cavalry in their glorious charge  ... it's a harder decision that I'd imagined.

That said, there are a few things that sometimes confuse me. For instance:

Huscarls have bows.

I'm not that familiar with Scandinavia's warriors in the period covered, and I was sort of surprised to see my elite infantry spawning with bows and arrows. Is this supposed to happen? It's not a problem, really - they still have their melee weapon and shield, and it'll definitely be useful when facing Khergits - but I am mildly confused.

Northern Trained Footmen wear Fur Armour.

It's the same armour that Northern Footmen wear, and it's not very good armour, either. I can understand a scattering of this armour among the third-tier troops, but they seem to wear it exclusively. Is there no leather sprinkled in their equipment list?

Northern Warriors wear Fur Armour.

This is really pushing it. These are my fourth-tier units! They are expensive and not all that easy to come by. Why are they wearing pitiful +19 armour that leaves them so very vulnerable and killable?

Northern Hirdmen have poorer armour than Northern Riders.

Northern Huscarls and Northern Riders both upgrade to the Northern Hirdman, but for the Rider, it seems a step down, as their Mail Hauberk (+40 body, +11 leg) is exchanged for a Byrnie (+39 body, +6 leg).

Everything is Beige.

Everything. Bandits, peasants, manhunters, caravans, sea raiders, kings and lords, villages, towns, and castles of every faction - the same uniform beige. It's sort of confusing, though I think I'm slowly getting used to it. Handily, the ReadMe informs me that this is only one text-file edit away from changing back to faction-specific colours, which I may do when I get around to joining a kingdom.


There are little things I could nitpick about: Rhodok ranged units looking silly with big pavises now that they're archers, not crossbowmen; the venerable Baron Rolf becoming 'John'; Sea Raiders occasionally wearing linen shirts instead of, you know, armour. But those all fall away to the glee of trussing up in mail and Norman helm, kite shield and lance in hand, and trotting out on my chestnut Heavy Hunter to lead my glorious Northmen against the foe, the cavalry of William's Normandy behind me, a shield wall of sturdy sword-Danes standing firm on my flank, and the enemy cowering before us. I really ought to get Battlesizer for this ...

[EDIT: Screenshot taken.]

HaraldPic2.png

This mod is so cool
 
Yes, indeed not very much armour in this mod. Only the top tier troops consequently have mail.

Except the rhodok skirmishers (t5 upgrade of the spearmen), who also wear the fur tunics. Brilliant troops nonetheless, if you use them tactically.

I kinda like the lack of armour here, it's a nice break from mods like HYW, where practically everyone walks around in at least a coat of plates.
 
Queevix said:
Yes, indeed not very much armour in this mod. Only the top tier troops consequently have mail.
I'd believe that more if the Rhodok Trained Archer deserters I fought weren't wearing Mail hauberks :P, but there are levels of armour between Fur and Mail. I'd love it if my fourth-tier troops could wear some variety of the leather armours, the way my Northman Archers do, so they're actually better protected than second-tier.

Sidus Preclarum said:
You've read it! \o/
Well, it asked me to so nicely ...
 
Mail was expensive and thus very restricted at this period, one of the reasons why your warriors should not wear them below high tier.

I had no problem with Nords, they seem to be the strongest. I was able to cut through entire swathes of Swadian infantry, and most of my men wore a byrnie as their top tier armour. Other factors such as agility and skill count, but especially in this mod since weapon and armour selection are restricted making your guts and your skill more valuable than whatever uber armament or weapons you would have.

 
Actually, given that Lamellar Armour and Bardiches still exist, I can have armament and weapons just as "uber" as I did in Native if I chose to. :roll: Though I won't until I get around to playing a Vaegir Rus character.

And I didn't say my third- and fourth-tier units should wear mail, I just asked for items better than fur. :mrgreen:  On a related note, some of my Northman Warriors have started spawning with byrnies! Hooray, actual protection!
 
Just a quick note about huscarls who are modelled after the norse vikings (my ancestors *strokes his red beard*).

Vikings were some of the most skilled warriors of their times with the following weapons: frankish sword, bow and arrow, javelin, throwing axe and that long axe I can't remember the damn name of (regular axe head on a long shaft not a dwarf axe).

The viking warrior with a double headed axe and a horned helmet is a romantic myth and has zero basis in reality what so ever, vikings athome fought mainly naval battles on ships that did not have siege equipment.

This meant that projectile weapons were decisive, Norway also has a great deal of wood varieties so we're able to produce quite good bows (the viking era was aprox 800-1100 archery was still poorly developed during this era).

So to make the nords historically correct for the period, they should be among (not the best) the finest archers in the game.

They were also great riders by the way, rapid movement was at the core of viking battle tactics, they would take their ships up rivers, commandeer horses to get to the battle fast...however at the battle they dismounted, horses were transport, they didnt use much cavallery (though i'm sure it happened).
 
To be fair to be historically accurate there shouldn't be huscarls at all. By the XIII century they were replaced by Knights as the elite.
 
Jean Plassy said:
To be fair to be historically accurate there shouldn't be huscarls at all. By the XIII century they were replaced by Knights as the elite.

No they weren't, the normans used knights in their duchy that is true, but armor clad warrior nobles on horseback never really got that popular, at least not in Norway. We just stopped raiding and began bashing each others heads in with axes arguing over which god to worship and who ruled the land.
 
Mind you that by then even Norway and Denmark were employing their own knights. Huscarls had disappeared from the XI century on.
 
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