100 Infantry + Archers VS 100 Horsemen?? how to win?

[veronicaaltoids]

How do you guys fight Calvary? horsemen and horse archers with you only have infantry?

I have tested many times in custom fights, in plain terrain, no matter what clans you choose, what infantry formation you choose, square formation, circle formation, etc.
you almost guaranteed getting slaughtered if facing same amount of horsemen and horse archers.

you have to 2:1 outnumber the horsemen, form a square formation, and waiting for horsemen charge on you, and hopefully you get lucky to kill 1-2 of them , while you suffer 3-4 losses, this is just so pathetic, and boring to fight, to be honest.

I really thought Bannerlords have better spear infantry formations and can fight better against horsemen, but it seems like horsemen is still invincible.

 

[chepox2004]

i dont know what game are you playing , in bannerlord melee cavalry just sucks ..

 

[Discount_Blade]

i dont know what game are you playing , in bannerlord melee cavalry just sucks ..

No kidding. I want the version of badass melee cav he has. I normally go inf and foot archer heavy with a small sqaudron of melee cav for attacking runners because thats all they are good for currently.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

i dont know what game are you playing , in bannerlord melee cavalry just sucks ..

I am playing bannerlord, melee cavalry sucks?? I play Khazait, with 100+ calvary I can kill 200+ southern/northern infantry in plain terrain with no sweat.
suffered 10-20 losses while killed 200+? I would said that's great victory.

 

[adrakken]

i dont know what game are you playing , in bannerlord melee cavalry just sucks ..

I dont know what faction you are playing but Melee Cavalry steamrolls everyone but Ranged Cavalry.

 

[black_bulldog]

I dont know what faction you are playing but Melee Cavalry steamrolls everyone but Ranged Cavalry.

My last playthrough was 3 weeks ago and cavalry was terrible then. They're have only been useful to fight other cav, chase off HA, or chase down fleeing troops. If this has changed great but I seriously doubt it, because many other people on these forums are complaining about how bad cavalry is still.

 

[HalfMetalJacket]

There are two different stories I've noticed. One group is saying cavalry is underpowered, while another believes its infantry that's underpowered.

Both spear infantry and cavalry suck, its just that cavalry happens to get the better of them by having more overall HP, mobility and chip damage. But what they aren't doing is actually creating the devastating charge they ought to. And spearmen are completely incapable of making cavalry pay for charging them head on. A clash between both is nowhere near as devastating as it ought to be imo.

Good heavy cavalry should absolutely crush anything without a polearm. Spear & shield infantry should be the bare minimum needed to withstand cavalry charges. Pike, glaives and other two handed polearms. should be hard counters at the cost of being vulnerable to archery.

For now though OP, if you do want to counter cavalry, the best I have found is to use two handed polearm infantry. I'm talking Elite Menavliatons, Veteran Falxmen and Voulgiers. Once upon a time, Sturgian Shock Troops (miss those guys).

 

[Antaeus]

In addition to the above... Possibly the OP is relying on static formations too much?

If you're concerned about cavalry, you can place your infantry line amongst trees, or just behind a line of trees - hitting trunks takes the sting out of a charge. The thicker the forest, the more disrupted a charge is. The same goes for embankments, rocks, and other battlefield obstacles. If you have your infantry line near a cliff or fallen tree, so that cavalry have to ride around it - it gives you time for flanking fire with missiles. Which leads me to the next... the OP might also want to consider placement of ranged units. Crossbows and high tier longbows in particular will chew up cavalry very quickly if they are correctly placed - again, if you're concerned with being overwhelmed placement is key. Consider splitting your infantry to better protect flanks, or sprinkling high tier polearm units amongst your ranged - I like to keep my shock units as a mobile reserve and place them with my ranged units - but nothing works better than a solid obstacle.

Although like the others I think that Cavalry have to be well managed to be effective. The AI tends to send them to their doom too quickly and not look to exploit flanks...

 

[adrakken]

If this has changed great but I seriously doubt it

Changed? It has been the case for a while now. Again, I dont know what faction you are playing, but melee cavalry is great. Perhaps you need to improve your tactics or play a faction with better cavalry.

 

[black_bulldog]

Changed? It has been the case for a while now. Again, I dont know what faction you are playing, but melee cavalry is great. Perhaps you need to improve your tactics or play a faction with better cavalry.

I've played every faction and the fact that melee cav missed probably 50% of the time is bad enough but add to the fact that unless you micro them they're ai is horrible.

 

[adrakken]

I've played every faction and the fact that melee cav missed probably 50% of the time is bad enough but add to the fact that unless you micro them they're ai is horrible.

yet magically not everyone is saying that...I wonder why? There is currently a thread running on reddit about how to stop mounted ranged units and more than half of the replies of are people saying heavy cavalry or a combo of melee cavalry with a shield wall blocking their circle path.

Just because you havent figured out how to tactically use them correctly, does not mean others could not have. Perhaps you need to learn how to lead a cavalry instead just hitting that F3 order.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

Don't make too much infantry! Make 25%-40% at the most. 40% if you have 60% archers (or HA) 25% if you have 25% Cav 25% archers 25% HA
I seriously suggest 50% of your forces be ranged of some type. Infantry just trades to much in attacking, you will have rebuild them too often and at worst the enemy can wipe you out. There good as a SW in front of other units to be the lightning rod for attacking enemis, then charge them clean up after ranged wear them down. If you charge them in to soon they die too much.

Cav needs to be commanded and have it's attacks timed and watched lol. They're a little better for the play IMO but I wouldn't go out of my way to make them (over HAs) because one wrong move and they can die easily. I always have a fat stack of em from prisoners though.

Against cavalry put your infantry ina SW out in front of archers, the cav will usually go to them 1st and derp it up and get shot. If you have more infantry then archers....... game gets kinda depry.

Against HA you're in trouble TBH, you want at least 2X rnaged unit for the amount of HA attacking you, move them to the back left of map and point them diagonally left. You can put infantry in SW infront you block some shots, but really have ing some Cav and HA of you own is a great help against enemy HA. It pretty annoying with just foot troops IMO.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

There are two different stories I've noticed. One group is saying cavalry is underpowered, while another believes its infantry that's underpowered.

Both spear infantry and cavalry suck, its just that cavalry happens to get the better of them by having more overall HP, mobility and chip damage. But what they aren't doing is actually creating the devastating charge they ought to. And spearmen are completely incapable of making cavalry pay for charging them head on. A clash between both is nowhere near as devastating as it ought to be imo.

Good heavy cavalry should absolutely crush anything without a polearm. Spear & shield infantry should be the bare minimum needed to withstand cavalry charges. Pike, glaives and other two handed polearms. should be hard counters at the cost of being vulnerable to archery.

For now though OP, if you do want to counter cavalry, the best I have found is to use two handed polearm infantry. I'm talking Elite Menavliatons, Veteran Falxmen and Voulgiers. Once upon a time, Sturgian Shock Troops (miss those guys).

so have you tested using two handed polearm infantry fighting against cavalry? what's the causality ratio like ? 2 : 1 ?? I would guess?
so far, I have tested, circle formation is completely useless, calvary can easily break through the circle
Square formation for infantry is the best formation, but still suffer heavily loss when facing horse archers, those damn horse archers just riding around circle and firing arrows to kill infantry.

what's your solution to that?

 

[veronicaaltoids]

Don't make too much infantry! Make 25%-40% at the most. 40% if you have 60% archers (or HA) 25% if you have 25% Cav 25% archers 25% HA
I seriously suggest 50% of your forces be ranged of some type. Infantry just trades to much in attacking, you will have rebuild them too often and at worst the enemy can wipe you out. There good as a SW in front of other units to be the lightning rod for attacking enemis, then charge them clean up after ranged wear them down. If you charge them in to soon they die too much.

Cav needs to be commanded and have it's attacks timed and watched lol. They're a little better for the play IMO but I wouldn't go out of my way to make them (over HAs) because one wrong move and they can die easily. I always have a fat stack of em from prisoners though.

Against cavalry put your infantry ina SW out in front of archers, the cav will usually go to them 1st and derp it up and get shot. If you have more infantry then archers....... game gets kinda depry.

Against HA you're in trouble TBH, you want at least 2X rnaged unit for the amount of HA attacking you, move them to the back left of map and point them diagonally left. You can put infantry in SW infront you block some shots, but really have ing some Cav and HA of you own is a great help against enemy HA. It pretty annoying with just foot troops IMO.

thanks for explaining, I agreed with you most parts
using infantry against Khuzait full cavalry forces are very challenging. It's fun but it's very difficult to command

general rules is I will only attacked cavalry forces with at least 2 : 1 out number them. and expect heavy losses too.

 

[Ananda_The_Destroyer]

There are two different stories I've noticed. One group is saying cavalry is underpowered, while another believes its infantry that's underpowered.

It's complicated
Cav is underpowered for the investment the player must put in to make them. They're a bit fragile and when left to charge on their own they miss attacks(why?) and head directly into ranged fire and infantry blobs getting killed needlessly. With the player directly commanding them via "fallow me" and charge off and on they can be a lot of help and survive much longer but it takes effort and getting you hand super dirty with you MC!

隐藏: The Jet stream attack

I carefully move the cav so they don't get punked on the way, to the side of the enemy, then on fallow me I personally attackthe line of archers from the side, I ride strait through them glaiving left and right, dragging a tracer of Cav through them and when I get to the end I charge them while they're on top of the archers and I ride back the other way, then quickly put them back on fallow me and circle away before and bull**** happens, because it will if you let them charge too long.

They're just the opposite of what player expect form an armored Cav, they expect a tank butt kicker, not big clumsy boomerang they need to handle with care.

Infantry, when charging or otherwise not in SW, doesn't use it's shield good enough and will die to ranged attacks.
In SW they will still eventually be worn down from ranged attacks. In SW they move very slowly. This is a problem with trying to use infantry to 'attack', on way or another they are exposed and can be destroyed on the way to then enemy. They fill a role but they need support of ranged. The question is though, why not just use more ranged? Well.... that's the balancing issue. I use some infantry because I constantly am getting them as rescued troops, so I put them to work.
They also help me raise medicine because they will die if I charge them

 

[Dabos37]

Ranged units >>>>>> Cavalry and infantry units currently. Cavalry units are not overperforming currently in actual battles and they get killed pretty handy by two handed and polearm units.

So yes, just spam ranged units as ArandaShandi suggested and you will be good and winning all the battles with zero effort and pretty low losses.

 

[black_bulldog]

yet magically not everyone is saying that...I wonder why? There is currently a thread running on reddit about how to stop mounted ranged units and more than half of the replies of are people saying heavy cavalry or a combo of melee cavalry with a shield wall blocking their circle path.

Just because you havent figured out how to tactically use them correctly, does not mean others could not have. Perhaps you need to learn how to lead a cavalry instead just hitting that F3 order.

In sim battles cav is strong because it gets a buff but in player battles they break formation as soon as they make contact with the enemy. They miss around 50% of the time whether it's with sword or lance. They bump into each other and get in each others way. The cost vs usefulness isn't what it should be. The ai and their ability to connect on swings needs to be fixed.
If you'd like to debate this I'm all for it but please present some reasons why YOU, not other people on reddit, think cavalry is strong or argue my points but stop with the personal attacks. I'm not going to be baited into a discussion about how good or bad a player I am.

 

[adrakken]

In sim battles cav is strong because it gets a buff but in player battles they break formation as soon as they make contact with the enemy. They miss around 50% of the time whether it's with sword or lance. They bump into each other and get in each others way. The cost vs usefulness isn't what it should be. The ai and their ability to connect on swings needs to be fixed.
If you'd like to debate this I'm all for it but please present some reasons why YOU, not other people on reddit, think cavalry is strong or argue my points but stop with the personal attacks. I'm not going to be baited into a discussion about how good or bad a player I am.

1. What personal attacks?
2. What does sim battles have to do with this? No one said anything about them.
3. I already explained why I think they are fine.
4. I already told you how to actually use them correctly to their full potential.
5. Perhaps if you did not take people explaining that you are doing it wrong as a personal attack you would be able to see that I posted one of the actual TACTICS on how to stop the thing most people say is OP, mounted ranged units.

 

[Khan Aran]

100 inf and arc vs 100 cav.
Don't look at by troop count, but instead denars.
Those 100 cav cost somewhere around 150%-200% (or more) what those ground troops cost, because of the horses.

Now that doesn't mean you can't win, but they are pretty much your ground troops on horseback. The main difference should be your ground guys have higher athleticism and they have higher horsemanship. So all you have to do is negate the advantage their horses give and you have the advantage.(Think Azincourt, the English didn't meet the french in an open field)

Really the biggest issue is that you don't have cavalry. Even just 5 or 10 can break up the enemy formation and give your a huge advantage. Think back through history about the countries that didn't use cav and you won't find many, and even those that didn't used things to replace cavalry. (not to say that this game perfectly reflects history, or that history even perfectly reflects history)

As far as one having an unfair advantage over another, I haven't really seen much of that, mainly it is the AI being stupid about using one or the other."hey we have 2 melee cav, lets send them into that shield wall a good half hour before our inf gets there!" or "lets have our infantry scatter after the cavalry!"

Edit:
I can not imagine looking at a group of 100 cav in-game(or real life) and thinking I'm going to take them with my 100 inf-arch, unless they are really crappy cav,or my troops are epic(Fians) or I'm set up really well like holding a bridge or river. That is not something you do.

 

[veronicaaltoids]

100 inf and arc vs 100 cav.
Don't look at by troop count, but instead denars.
Those 100 cav cost somewhere around 150%-200% (or more) what those ground troops cost, because of the horses.

Now that doesn't mean you can't win, but they are pretty much your ground troops on horseback. The main difference should be your ground guys have higher athleticism and they have higher horsemanship. So all you have to do is negate the advantage their horses give and you have the advantage.(Think Azincourt, the English didn't meet the french in an open field)

Really the biggest issue is that you don't have cavalry. Even just 5 or 10 can break up the enemy formation and give your a huge advantage. Think back through history about the countries that didn't use cav and you won't find many, and even those that didn't used things to replace cavalry. (not to say that this game perfectly reflects history, or that history even perfectly reflects history)

As far as one having an unfair advantage over another, I haven't really seen much of that, mainly it is the AI being stupid about using one or the other."hey we have 2 melee cav, lets send them into that shield wall a good half hour before our inf gets there!" or "lets have our infantry scatter after the cavalry!"

Edit:
I can not imagine looking at a group of 100 cav in-game(or real life) and thinking I'm going to take them with my 100 inf-arch, unless they are really crappy cav,or my troops are epic(Fians) or I'm set up really well like holding a bridge or river. That is not something you do.

yeah I have tested, if I , the hero fall in battle, the infantry formation will break down, and infantry will scatter and charge, very stupid AI
or "they move to higher ground", which doesn't make sense.
so you got to be very careful in battle, if you fall, your troops will act like idiots.